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Is SL really a game?

Wayfinder Wishbringer
Elf Clan / ElvenMyst
Join date: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 1,483
01-04-2005 13:02
A comment that I often read in the forums is "chill out, it's just a game". This is usually stated in 2 areas: either a griefer attacked someone and is copping an attitude, or the system has crashed or been taken down yet again. "Chill out, it's just a game".

But is it? Maybe SL started out as a game... but that is hardly still the case.

People buy property on SL and pay $200 a month or more for the privilege. Linden$ can be traded for real US$... which immediately transfers this from "just a game" environment to one that can be impacted by real US laws. Since L$ do have RL$ value... conceivably breach of contract here can actually be sued in U.S. courts, just as in RL. I don't know as anyone has ever done so, but people need to realize that this reality exists, especially as contracts become larger and more important.

In the same manner, theft of creative property here, theft of copyrighted material and harassment are all Real Life crimes, and punishable in RL just the same as in any other RL situation. There is even a new law on the books called "Computer terrorism" which entails the area of using ones computer to intentionally harass others on the internet. These things are real... they are not just a "game". Some users here think they are "bulletproof" because of the seeming anonymity SL gives them-- but there are men sitting in prison today that thought the same way when they thought their computer hacking was "just a game".

As for "so the server's down... get a life" that I read here so often... for some folks, SL *is* their life. There are residents of SL who are physically disabled, cannot go everywhere like most folks, and for them, SL becomes very much a part of their daily activities. They have no friends outside of SL. There are merchants here that every day SL is down, lose money. How would you like to have your employer call you up every week and say, 'Oh, sorry, you don't get to work today." How long could you last at a 20% reduction of your salary week after week?

I believe SL has grown beyond the "just a game" stage. SL has become a SOCIETY, and as such, the users and hosts of SL may need to take a whole new perspective on things. SL needs to get a lot more professional, a lot more safe, and the downtime needs to go bye-bye. The ghosting needs to be eliminated, the griefing needs to be eliminated and the servers need to work. When you're charging someone hundreds or even thousands of dollars a year to invest in your service, you no longer get to call yourself a "just a game".

While there are "games" inside SL... SL itself is far more. If you want "just a game" and your mentality is to go around shooting people... go play Unreal online. That attitude is unwelcome here.

So if one thinks SL is "just a game"... he may wish to rethink. SL is a whole different critter.

** ok, that's my soapbox for the week ** :D
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Visit ElvenMyst, home of Elf Clan, one of Second Life's oldest and most popular fantasy groups. Visit Dwagonville, home of the Dwagons, our highly detailed Star Trek exhibit, the Warhammer 40k Arena, the Elf Clan Museum and of course, the Elf Clan Fantasy Market. We welcome all visitors. : )
Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
01-04-2005 13:06
Ya, I've long held this viewpoint (well, as long as several months anyway), and I can't speak for anyone, but casually put, the majority of fellow avatars in here I really look up to also hold similar visionary views.

I do think Second Life is a game in that it is fun and provides me with hours of crazy entertainment, but it's more too.

So, I jokingly use the term "game+" sometimes. A game, and MORE. Why not try all the selections at the buffet table and come back for seconds and even thirds of the dishes you especially enjoyed? ;)
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Lo Jacobs
Awesome Possum
Join date: 28 May 2004
Posts: 2,734
01-04-2005 13:12
I myself have always regarded SL as a "place" rather than a "game." Of course it depends on your level of involvement, but perhaps a more accurate term would be "hobby" in respect to the people who play it -- whatever it is. :)
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Prokofy Neva
Virtualtor
Join date: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3,698
01-04-2005 13:15
"No, SL is just a thingie." Lordfly
Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
01-04-2005 13:18
From: Prokofy Neva
"No, SL is just a thingie." Lordfly


Ha! Oh that's great... yeah... he told me that the other day *thinks*... :)
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Taco Rubio
also quite creepy
Join date: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 3,349
01-04-2005 13:20
why'd you ask it as a question and then just put forth one view? That dont make no sense a'tall.

oh hiya, Torley
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From: Torley Linden
We can't be clear enough, ever, in our communication.
Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
01-04-2005 13:22
*waves to Taco* :)
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Wayfinder Wishbringer
Elf Clan / ElvenMyst
Join date: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 1,483
01-04-2005 13:24
From: Taco Rubio
why'd you ask it as a question and then just put forth one view? That dont make no sense a'tall.


Chill out, it's just a forum. :D
_____________________
Visit ElvenMyst, home of Elf Clan, one of Second Life's oldest and most popular fantasy groups. Visit Dwagonville, home of the Dwagons, our highly detailed Star Trek exhibit, the Warhammer 40k Arena, the Elf Clan Museum and of course, the Elf Clan Fantasy Market. We welcome all visitors. : )
Taco Rubio
also quite creepy
Join date: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 3,349
01-04-2005 13:27
From: Wayfinder Wishbringer
Chill out, it's just a forum. :D


yeah but my way is way easier than reading.
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From: Torley Linden
We can't be clear enough, ever, in our communication.
Alby Yellowknife
Sic Semper Tyrannis
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,148
01-04-2005 13:33
From: Wayfinder Wishbringer


People buy property on SL and pay $200 a month or more for the privilege. Linden$ can be traded for real US$... which immediately transfers this from "just a game" environment to one that can be impacted by real US laws. Since L$ do have RL$ value... conceivably breach of contract here can actually be sued in U.S. courts, just as in RL. I don't know as anyone has ever done so, but people need to realize that this reality exists, especially as contracts become larger and more important.

:D



Relax..... You can sue anybody for anything, so suing over something doesn't matter. Now as for spending US$ for something Virtual, how is this different than spending money for PayPreview to watch a Movie? Your buying "Entertainment". Can you sue if you don't think you got the entertainment value you wanted? Sure... But nothing has changed and nothing special has been created.

SL is a game, entertainment, etc... If you can get a court to acknowledge you have "Virtual Property Rights" then you'll win all the court battles you want if its stolen.. The end all, be all, is that SL is nothing more than new technology to allow for human interaction.
David Valentino
Nicely Wicked
Join date: 1 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,941
01-04-2005 13:42
Of course it's a game! First one to have AV sex with Zoey wins!

Actually, to me it's more of a chat program with lots of extras. Social gathering and collaberation, idea exchanges, etc.

However, it's also a canvas upon which each individual can paint what they wish, through building, scripting, and other creation.
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David Lamoreaux

Owner - Perilous Pleasures and Extreme Erotica Gallery
DoteDote Edison
Thinks Too Much
Join date: 6 Jun 2004
Posts: 790
01-04-2005 13:47
From: Alby Yellowknife
If you can get a court to acknowledge you have "Virtual Property Rights" then you'll win all the court battles you want if its stolen.. The end all, be all, is that SL is nothing more than new technology to allow for human interaction.


Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to see a court recognize these 'virtual' property rights at some point in time. After all, SL 'property' isn't fantasy, it is represented by a portion of RL server hardware. This wouldn't be much different than a website owner filing against an ISP for complaints relative to property rented on a server.

And consider this; the government recognizes light as property. Radio & TV stations, cellphone companies, wireless marketers... they all purchase slices of the light spectrum as property.

As for SL being a game or not, I like the hobby comparison someone made earlier. So, I'll call it a hobby.
Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
01-04-2005 13:51
From: Wayfinder Wishbringer
Is SL really a game?


Hmmm... The answer to that would be No, Regis.
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
01-04-2005 13:57
From: Pendari Lorentz
Hmmm... The answer to that would be No, Regis.

Is that your final answer? :p
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Rickard Roentgen
Renaissance Punk
Join date: 4 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,869
01-04-2005 14:07
It's all relative :). I think life is just a game. Doesn't mean I don't occasionally take it seriously. In fact I want Game Over written on my gravestone.
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
01-04-2005 14:10
It's a first-stage metaverse, not a 'game'. At the moment it's a place for people to profit from idle chatters.

For LL, they're playing "Keep The Damn Grid Running" at the moment.
Artillo Fredericks
Friendly Orange Demon
Join date: 1 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,327
01-04-2005 14:10
I've always called SL a "3D Virtual Reality World"... that's my story and I'm stickin to it!
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MrsJakal Suavage
Purple Butterfly
Join date: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,434
01-04-2005 14:33
What??? :eek: SL isn't real?? First Santa now this!!!!

***runs out of forums crying***
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Ravi Zuma
Я Вас не помню
Join date: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 148
01-04-2005 16:03
Wish............. SL is a dream :)
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Cubey Terra
Aircraft Builder
Join date: 6 Sep 2003
Posts: 1,725
01-04-2005 16:14
OK, I'm ignoring the arguments that say "life is just a game, so SL is too". That's less than constructive, and completely misses the point of the question.

I think SL is very much like the web, Usenet, IRC, and other areas of the Internet. Second LIfe is just another medium for human interaction. Sure, some people role-play -- they have a different persona than they have in face-to-face interaction, but that's the same with any other medium. In the end, SL is not an RPG. It's a way to communicate and interact with real people in meaningful ways. It's a medium of creativity and of emotion. It's a medium of commerce and conflict. It covers the entire range of human interaction, but does it using a game-like interface.

In the end, everyone you chat with in SL is a real person at a keyboard. To me, that makes it just another element of real life.

Is the web a game? No. The web has games, but not all of it is a game. Are multiplayer world like Everquest a game? Yes, because it's role-playing. All of the participants have agreed to take part in a fictitious reality for the purpose of entertainment.

Is SL or There a game? No. They're less related to Everquest and Ultima Online and more related to IRC and the web. Games are about fictional characters, and SL is about real people. SL isn't a game. It's another medium for human interaction.
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planes · helicopters · blimps · balloons · skydiving · submarines
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Silence Seraph
Divinely Angelic
Join date: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 53
01-04-2005 16:22
Game.. what is this game you speak of..? Here I was, thinking I was really 'jacked' into the Matrix.

Darn.
Kiefer Beckett
Confused
Join date: 22 Jun 2004
Posts: 106
01-04-2005 16:27
From: Cubey Terra
It's a way to communicate and interact with real people in meaningful ways. It's a medium of creativity and of emotion. It's a medium of commerce and conflict. It covers the entire range of human interaction, but does it using a game-like interface.


Very well said. I've always had trouble explaining SL (I couldnt think of more descriptive to say other than "you build things", "go to events"...) to other people but what you say makes a ton of sense.
Wayfinder Wishbringer
Elf Clan / ElvenMyst
Join date: 28 Oct 2004
Posts: 1,483
01-04-2005 17:41
From: Rickard Roentgen
It's all relative :). I think life is just a game. Doesn't mean I don't occasionally take it seriously. In fact I want Game Over written on my gravestone.


I love it. :D
I also love the thought that has gone into some of these posts (and the humor!).
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Visit ElvenMyst, home of Elf Clan, one of Second Life's oldest and most popular fantasy groups. Visit Dwagonville, home of the Dwagons, our highly detailed Star Trek exhibit, the Warhammer 40k Arena, the Elf Clan Museum and of course, the Elf Clan Fantasy Market. We welcome all visitors. : )
Ryntha Suavage
Kitten
Join date: 4 Jul 2004
Posts: 419
01-04-2005 18:16
In the end, Second Life is what the user makes it out to be. Some people use it for entertainment/game, some as a "canvas", some as a way to connect to others, and some use it to make money/business. Even a combination of all these can apply, it is dependent on the person. Second Life is a platform for us to make it into what we want it to be. And when people try to force their views on you, "It is just a game!", you can agree with them or not agree. You're free to believe in what you want, we're not carbon copies or mind linked so we do not make the same interpretations as the next person.
I am happy with how Second Life has progressed, but look forward to seeing it improve.
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Cubey Terra
Aircraft Builder
Join date: 6 Sep 2003
Posts: 1,725
01-04-2005 18:49
From: Ryntha Suavage
Some people use it for entertainment/game, some as a "canvas", some as a way to connect to others, and some use it to make money/business.


Exactly. But in all cases, everyone you chat with is a real person. You might be chatting for entertainment or for business, but it's always another person. That means it's as much a game as any activity in life.
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C U B E Y · T E R R A
planes · helicopters · blimps · balloons · skydiving · submarines
Available at Abbotts Aerodrome and XstreetSL.com

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