Chat Loggers...what to do.

I believe that I am the shopkeeper's assistant referred to in Foulcault's message. Let me provide more detail regarding the incident.

Spybugs are sold in SL. If they were not allowed, then why are the sales of such allowed? My Master, the shopkeeper, ordered me to place them. He has some down as well. They are very useful in identifying problems that need to be corrected, e.g. when anims and scripts do not work correctly. Very very few people will IM you of such info. The information gathered has never been used to steal ideas or harm others. I have found it very interesting though, that others come to steal our ideas.

The Spybugs are on my land, and in public places. The non-vindictive person involved wished to become one of my Master's slaves. For some unknown reason, she took a disliking to me and attempted to start a fight. I had liked her very much up until then, but afterwards requested that my Master free her. He did so, but I do not know what or how it was said, other than that I received an email from her regarding the spybugs. The person was freed because of bad attitude only. If she thinks it was due to something else, I highly recommend she get in touch with me.

(Wow I might actually agree with Neehai on this.)

I would like to know what LL's motivation for such a rule is. Given that IMs are private chat that can't be logged...

If you're afraid that someone may steal an idea or whatever:

1) Why are you telling someone else in public chat anyway?
2) Throwing them an IM stating that you're IMing it because you don't want the idea stolen works fine. This of course assuming you trust the person you're telling.

I don't care either way, I'm not typing anything I don't want logged anyway. I view it as the same as public chat in an MMORPG for the most part.

It is common in most of the individual states in the US that the following or some deviation of the follwing applies. Check your individual state statutes for more information

"it a crime to use any device to "overhear, record, amplify or transmit" any part of the private communication with others"

If someone comes to your house and uses your phone, can your record their conversation just becaue they are on your property? Hell no and they can sue you and be living in your house in no time at all.

Does this mean your boss can ease drop on your conversations? No there are specific laws regarding employees privacy and the rights of both parties. I suggest your reference Telecommunication Law for more study.

Do you have the right becasue you are playing a game online to invade privacy? No again. SL is located in the U.S. state of California and governed by the federal and state laws that apply in that jurisdiction.

Now being realistic, what can be done? Just a whole lot of complaining and not much else. That is the down side.

As for your remark about selling such devices, there are also devices that cause game interruptions and a host of other problems. That doesn't mean that are in accordance with TOS.

As for protecting your investment? Hello, from what? That database robber? There is nothing to protect is SL, What is here today will be here tomorrow. I'd worry more about server problems than my inventory or land.

SL is self governing and will only be as good as the people that play the game. I for one favor as few rules as possible, otherwise what is the point? To be regulated to death. Thanks I'll go find a better way to spend my free time.

A little bit of common sense and courtesy goes a long way.

I found your post to be rediculous.

Well, real life analogies for the purpose of proving a point within a game can only go so far--probably not far enough in this case. One could argue that recording public chat in SL is the same as walking around outside with a tape recorder... It is the "public" form of chat in SL as opposed to the "private" form of chat, IMs, where you can expect and perhaps demand some level of privacy.

Dunno how true it is, but last I heard, all chat, public and IM are indeed logged by LL. I guess that is why the nexcoms are so popular, it is encrypted chat on an offworld server.

In my state you can not record someones voice with a eletronical device without express permission from that person ahead of time. Ironicaly you can video record them all you want.

The curious practical thing is that recording is one thing, playback is another. If someone is never caught with a recording device and the conversations that were alleged to be saved to any one of a number of storage media never materialize, who's to say what happened?

That is why we have lawyers lol

If your conversations are taking place on the computer or in email, yes they can. If you think that your correspondence on the computer at your office is private, you should think again. If that doesn't work, you should just stop thinking and begin living out of a cardboard box at the train station.


Unless you are Linda Tripp.

I find this to be irrelevant. You should have no assumptions of privacy while on my private land. As I said before, if you want privacy, go home. That's like saying I shouldn't stare at your cock while you are sunbathing nude on my lawn. The solution to both problems has nothing whatsoever to do with me and everything to do with you taking responsibility for your own actions.


I am not invading anyone's privacy. If I have a listening device on my land to record for whatever reason I choose then that is my business. Perhaps I am an eccentric book writer and would like to be able to just type out an idea as it comes to me. If you decide to wander onto my property and begin to divulge national secrets, that is your problem. Perhaps you need a few classes in keeping your mouth shut. Honestly, why would you come to my house to start openly discussing top secret information? People like that are the reason their is a "Do Not Consume" warning label on rat poison.


I made no remarks about selling such an item. I couldn't even make such an item much less sell it. Perhaps you overheard someone else devising that plan on public land. If so, you should be ashamed of yourself for invading their privacy. Some people have no class.


I found yor post to be bluediculous.


Just to be clear. I am not logging anyone's voice in Second Life.

Actually I think this is for the protection of the person on the other end of the phone, not the person standing in your living room.

I never replied to any post mad by you. Just to be clear. If you would read the post I was replying to another poster.

With that said though, in SL text is considered our "voice". Our main verbal communication is based on text input. It could be argued that since this is the only way to have a "voice" in SL it could be legally viewed as "voice".

That is all useless though as SL's TOS clearly states you can not record it anyways.

Phone calls - NO NO NO NO NO...and again NO.
In the USA ANY recorded conversation or third party listening MUST have all parties consenting. I have and do work in a call center. Previously for technical support for computers and now for a phone company. When you sign up for the job you give your concent, the customer gives thier concent by stay on the line AFTER that little "Your call may be monitored". If all parties are not aware then you can be sued and/or in case of businesses heavier fines apply, and the recorded conversatioon cannot be used in a court of law, unless governmental premissional is given.

Email - Actually it IS illegal for your boss to view your email...UNTIL you sign that document during your employment process or that little on screen disclaimer is pressed that states they CAN view it.

Back to the Sl world for a moment since this is something that came to mind about whats "legal" in game.
I have the "hand of god" weapons lets say....SL sells thrm...and people here are saying if they are sold then they are allowed to be used. Then let's see how you feel about weapons being used all over. Not currently allowed, can buy them, can't use them.

Just becuase something is there does not mean it is allowed. Just means noone has said anything.

I would have to say it would still be considered text or print communication from a legal standpoint.

If you said things about me in game that were untrue and caused me hardship, I would sue you for libel and not slander.

That's my take on it.

Even though you didn't address me, I still wanted to make it clear that I am not recording anyones voice in Second Life. With the ability to produce streaming audio, there are actual voices in Second Life.

Ok The suit part would be... interesting to say the least. I have heard of no laws pretaining to virtual worlds nor games that would cover that, nor heard of any cases tried yet. Not picking on ya, just it would be interesting to see the outcome of that.

SL is basically a chat room.

Even worse then As IRC is consider a public domain in a global market with virtually no laws controlling it.

Wow, I'm impressed, you sure you're not just a little conservative there? (in the political sense) Nevermind..I forgot I "hate" politics anyway.

I guess LL's only "reason" that I can think of is probably just a CYA for them so they don't get sued by some idiot who can't take responsibility for their own actions and "speech".

Disclaimer: No I'm not logging chat either, although I admit I'm sure I could if I wanted.

(But I'd probably only get "Look at this idiot's plot, it almost never changes even after months and he's almost never around! What an idiot!" *speaker leaves area* Oops..)