No land tax, Except your forced onto a specific area?

Defining "Lifetime":

Everyone benefits from the new plan! Lifetime members receive 1 acre (1/16 of a sim) at no cost – a $25 value - in recognition of their lifetime status. All other current Second Life residents will receive 1/4 acre at no extra cost.

So... wait... now we don't "earn" our plots? What does the $L even mean anymore? What is the motivation to go to events? What if I want seperate plots for a business? Why have a business??? *is very worried*

So... in 1.2 everything will be reset as well? Start everything over? i'm assumeing this is the case anyway.. cause how else will all this new land appear?

& am i to understand that now.. we can only get land by paying RL cash? i may be reading this wrong but it sounds like it. So far.. 1.2 isn't sounding all that great to me =P.

Somone tell me this isn't so, please.

Yes, 1.2 will bring changes. Let me mention some 1.2 facts that might get lost in the excitement:

- Developer Incentives. Yes, Linden Lab pays YOU. I know that this is a strange concept, so let me be clear. The creators and operators of the best experiences, content and services in Second Life WILL GET REAL US DOLLARS. The first $1000 is going out this week. We recognize the time and effort that goes in to making Second Life the unique world it is.

- Most of you will be able to pay less than your currently monthly bill for what you currently have. That's right, less US$ per month than you are paying now. Nearly all the rest of you will pay the same.

- Parcel-based allocation of objects makes for a better world. No more will a single user decide to lock others out of a sim by object banking. We are currently scanning the world to determine the right parcel allocations on a sim by sim basis to minimize the changes that you will have to make.

- You still receive a stipend. Even users who choose the one-time sign up fee will get a stipend if they use Second Life that week. This makes it even easier for you to bring your friends in to Second Life to visit events and special parties.

- There.com asks its users to spend US$ to buy Therebucks. Second Life users will convert L$ into US$, first chances to buy land, and more.

- We are not reseting the world.

Please keep asking questions and reading through the email. There are a lot of changes and we've been working hard to make sure they are the best changes for you and for Second Life.

Cory

You can pay $10 one time to get access to SL with no land and limited bonus.

You can pay $10 per month to get a small ammount of land, and 'normal' stipend bonus (which will be smaller with the reduced meaning of L$).

If that is not enough land you can buy more land at a rate of $5 / additional 512sq m (my guess is the $10 per month grants 512sq m even though its not explicitly said). The more extra land you get, the cheaper / meter sq it gets. An additional 1024sq m above the land you get for $10 is only $8 more dollars - ie $18 a month will get you 1536sq m.

Lifetime membership people get 1/16th (4096sq m) of land "free". They only have to pay for land above and beyond that 1/16th - at the normal rates: $5 for 512sqm, $8 for 1024sqm etc.

So a lifer can continue to play for free and get a good amount of land (1 acre) to use. Its not a predefined acre. Your charges are determined at the end of the month to be for the peak land you owned in the last month. I'm actually weary of the peak land thing - it would make more sense to me to be an average, and how often is it calculated? What if I'm moving and own twice as much land for an hour? Will I get charged double that month?

So how will the land be set up then? A lot of us currently own more than we'll be willing to pay for. In fact, if I wasn't lifetime, i'd probably not be around at all.

Is there some sort of system set up so we can define which pieces of land we want to keep? I won't like it very much if this system just gets implemented and I get billed for land that I haven't released. In fact, it would go much further than just a general dislike.

Any land you do not agree to pay for will be automatically released. You will be able to find all of your land in the viewer and through the website.

This is the part that I don't like. The whole part of SL that intrigues me was that you could 'work' your way up in the world. Now as a lifetime member, the best I can ever hope to have is 1/16 plot and a 1/16th alottment of prims unless I want to pay more money.

Why do I think that my time and interest in world is going to drop substantially. I'm not happy


-Bone

I still need to learn more but my knee jerk reaction is shock and dismay. At one time you had the dream of having success to the point of owning a sim. Now you have to pay cold hard cash for it. It does take some of the game out of the game.

I do need to read more and think on it but initially Im not thrilled.

I hesitantly will put down my ball of rage, squish it, and see what happens. First of all, because they considered the Lifetime Members (as I did not notice before, and went on a posting-rampage) and second of all, because it sounds as if I can keep my 1/16th of a sim (prim and land) without paying monthly fees (correct me if I'm wrong?) If this is the case, I am someone that this will effect positively, because I've never needed multiple plots before, and as long as I'm getting my money's worth from buying Lifetime Membership, I can be happy with this. What happens to my in-game L$25,000, though? Will that be worth anything?

heh! Not according to the latest faq. 1:2000 ratio (R$L$). I feel that now the L$ is worth nothing in the game. "oh it's still can be used for commerce" the paraphrase from other threads. Why? I can build it myself! So now there really is no game to the game. It's all going to be about socializing, and coding for free if you will.

I like the changes made, but on the same side I fear that they've taken much away from the game... Too bad, it's fairly obvious that the powers that be inside of LindenLabs haven't thought this our very hard...

---
Trimda Hedges

As far as I can tell L$ will be drastically more valuable in 1.2 than they are now.

1. Stipends are going down dramatically. In 1.2 stipends will be between $50 and $500 a week depending on your account.

2. That means a lot less money coming into the economy.

3. Less income means less to spend. Everyone of us who goes into 1.2 with money will find ourselves very rich compared to new post-1.2 users.

4. You need L$ to buy land. Your monthly fee only gives you the right to buy the land, not the land itself.

5. Imagine how long it will take a new user to afford 1024 square meters of land at $50 a week.

6. Vehicles, scripts, clothing, LindenWorld attractions, all other services, will still cost money. L$ money.

7. I might be wrong about this one but as far as I know prims will still cost $10 to rez. There won't be a weekly tax but you will still have to pay to bring something into the world.

Those of you with money now will find yourselves with increased buying power over post-1.2 users and increased wealth in a world where money is suddenly in much shorter supply. L$ may have very little value in R$ but that is exactly how it should be and doesn't affect L$ value in-game.

Saying the decision makers of Linden Lab haven't thought things out is a bit arrogant. This is their business, their profession, their livlihood, their income and likely their passion. If you want to cast aspersions you might be more accurate to say instead that they suck at communicating what they've thought out.

Yay Julian, you get it!

Except there will be no cost to rez something.

Really? I'm as happy as your cat, Jellin.

Don't be so gloomy, people. We pre-1.2 players will be gods (and goddesses) in the 1.2 economy.

Great, great, so I have a bajillion dollars now.

If post 1.2 people don't have any money, how are they going to keep the economy going?

If we all hoard our money now, we suddenly create a "megawealthy" class and a "I can't afford to do anything" class.

there will be violence in the streets.

I sure as hell aren't going to just give my money about, if it's going ot be "valuable". I doubt it will be though. unless they're dropping stipend bonuses down to like, 3 dollars a week, inflation will explode kaboom.

And if new users ARE going to only get 3 dollars a week in stipend, how are they going to be able to PAY FOR NEW LAND?

LF

i dunno.. i dont think there will be that much of a disparity between pre/post 1.2 players. Most people dont have alot of money to begin with. Yes, there will be ultra-mega rich folks in SL.. but they are there now.

What I think is really interesting, which hasn't been talked about much (if at all) is that with this economic model, there really is no drain. There will be $L coming in, but only 2 avenues for the $L to exit the system: buying land, which has a bottom, unless you pony up *serious* cash to buy land above/beyond your allotment, and goods purchased from other players. Other than that... no exit for the $L.

That HUGE tax burden.. gone. That $10/prim rez cost.. gone. Sure, the stipend goes down.. thankfully.. can you imagine the runaway inflation if we still recieved our stipend, yet paid ZERO land tax, object tax, rez costs??

I also don't think the $L is worthless post 1.2. I *do* think the Lindens have grossly miscalculated the $R>$L exchange rate.. but time will tell.

I have to agree. It's my main remaining problem with 1.2... and it REALLY needs to be fixed.

Please don't screw up the economy just because some beancounter doesn't want us to offset land costs with L$.

I heard/noticed something tonight. Apparently, the land in 1.2 will cost $L1 per meter^2 as opposed to the current $L3

So, if I buy 2500 sq m today (which is how much of my allotment I have left to get) then I spend at least $L5000 more than if I wait. So, I guess that's a no-brainer.

But, I got to thinking. The land I hold now, about 1300 sq m, cost me about $L4000. If I returned it back to public, and rebought it after 1.2, then I'd save ANOTHER $L2700. So, that's $L7700 I'd save by not having any land when 1.2 arrives.

On the other hand, when the land only costs $L1 per sq m, and the new sims can't be immediately occupied by most folks, and assuming people rush to fill their quotas, there is a pretty good chance that (A) there won't be any land for me to buy after 1.2 - at least in the configuration I want - and (B) there's a REAL good chance I can't let my land sit as Public over night waiting for the 1.2 prices to change.

I don't suppose a sign posted on my land saying "Please don't buy this land!" would do the trick? Y'all promise to leave my land alone?

Sure you do

So, to sum, my plan BEFORE I found out about the difference was to buy as much land as possible now while I still had a chance to get what I want in a place that I like. Now, .... I don't have a CLUE what to do :-/ Oh, well, it's only $L7700.

I real feel for the mental gyrations some of the larger landholders are going to have to perform to figure it all out.

Am I missing something? Is there an easy answer? A formula? Or is LL going to give us two bucks a meter on the land we own when 1.2 comes up?

And, while we're at it, can I get one more confirmation that we'll get a credit for the prims we have rezzed at that time?

Taxes never meant anything to me, really, I've never personally been in the position of having to earn a bunch of money to pay them.

Personally, I spend L$ to buy a copy of people's creations, they put a lot of time and effort into them and I get to reap the benefits by buying them, while they reap the benefits of becoming wealthier. Then they, too, can buy other's creations.

The world won't be any less capitalistic than before, for the vast majority of us, but it is the end of the SL Robber Baron era.

Sure, they could pay for a really costly account and get their own sim, or a big chunk of one, but the subsequent increase of revenue for the devs allows them to open up a brand new sim rather than crowding others out. There should actually be plenty of land to go around.

My concerns are not over land but prims. If new comers only get 117 prims unless they are willing to pay more real money what do you think they are going to buy...clothes? I just have this strong feeling we are going to end up paying more and getting less. Unless you opt for the lifetime which I am no longer willing to do since my trust in LL has been undermined a great deal. When I read through the getting to know 1.2 they said that current monthly members are getting 1024 m2
234 prims but in the bottom chart it says 512 m2. If this means that new people coming in after this goes into effect, it means that get only half of what previous players got. This is hardly fair, in fact that's downright discrimination. How can I place trust in a company that would do such shady business practices?

kathy, when housing came out in asheron's call, they released blocks randomly throughout each month. so we found places to live and "camped" by the purchasing stones.

and yes, our characters held items in front of the stones that said "i've been camping here since <date>. please respect my effort and do not buy this house."

i camped my first one for two weeks but couldn't, of course, be signed on all the time. i did get to know my fellow campers very well and when my block went on sale i was impressed that some of them used alternate accounts to purchase homes others had been camping so they could sell them back to them later.

the whole thing really created a sense of neighborly community among the first owners of the homes. all that said, i would not recommend trying this in linden. you'd probably loose the land.

Important Note:

Per Kathy's mail about changing land costs...

When we switch to the new version, we will give all users a L$ credit to their balance for the current value of the land and objects that they have in-world. So the reduction in claim cost for land and the removal of de-rez credits will have NET ZERO effect on you as an existing resident.

you DO NOT need to delete stuff or release land in an attempt to take advantage of this changeover - we recognize the value of everyone's builds and will be doing it for you as a credit.

Philip Linden

Wow. That's excellent. Thanks

I just wish I'd known it 12 hours ago :-/

Wow, very cool, I bought up my 4096 because a -really- good plot opened up next to the club and I knew it'd be gone quick. Thought I'd just be out that money, good to know I'll get a portion of it back.

Newcomers will only get 117 prims in a completely Linden-land-free Sim. Places like Slate, Boardman, etc. etc. will have tons more prims per square meter, because linden land doesn't count against prim limits.

Have heart, structures will not vanish in 1.2... and I'll make sure of that

LF