Another Example: Armstrong's Hair

Sun dried tomatoes! Thanks for reminding me to do my laundry!

I've stated two remedies that would go a long way.

Implement the ability to have a master account different than the account credentials for your avatar.

Make a clear and concise statement regarding the intended use of the LL software. I do not believe extracting info from any portion of it is considered "intended use".

It is also very interesting to see the two kinds of responses here. Ones that just keep looking for direct and obvious relationships to keys, and ones that see this as the beginning of a series of invasive and compromising practices that that very likely could get out of control.

If you can't see the theme of picking up any scraps you can find that may or may not belong to you and using it for your own purposes regardless of the wishes of the original owner, I can't help you. It's ghoulish. Maybe try a comparative lit course or something.

And again (and again) I ask.

Why not opt in.

What is the purpose of a list of 40k avatar account names and keys. Yes, they are avatar account names. And website login names. This is not FUD.

What is the Linden stance on the release of this information and their responsibility for it.

Is extracting info from their files intended use of the software.

Why don't they publish a name/key list. Why is there no name2key service. There is no technical reason for it, it would be very simple to add keys to Ctl F.

Can you sell the information within SL to people outside of it.

Why won't LL directly provide you with keys and confirm people are indeed residents. Ok, only to other residents (they still won't).

Could LL enact a policy to ban people for creating lists. Just say, hypothetically.

And so on.

You all keep saying "they don't have to answer you". I'm a paying resident for longer than most of you, and apparently am not alone in these concerns. People that have them are all not insane.

I have gone through the correct channels, with all due tact, three times. No responses.

I see no reason to unstick these guns.

Bang.

Oh ardith. Jeezus christ man.

Go back two days read posts see response to that welcome to the conversation you're welcome.

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

I've seen the same response over and over again. You keep raising the same question which was already answered, but each time you ask the question you have to reach for more and more oblique analogies in an attempt to justify your logically, legally, and morally untenable position.

You've got few alllies in these forums, and you're certainly not persuasive enough to gain many more. If you want to keep pressing the Lindens, do so in private. The rest of us were satisfied with the answer which was already given.

This is still going on? Ugh.

/me closes the General forum for another week.

Line 1: Ardith, then ignore the posts.

If you can not stop yourself from reading my posts, that is not my problem, it is yours. You have tools to ignore me if you (apparently) can not exercise your free will in this matter.

And my questions have NOT been answered. Show me answers to all of them. One post from robin regarding clarification of what keys can and can not do, which I have repeatedly stated I am aware of, does not do the job. How does "keys are just unique IDs that can't be used anywhere but in world" (which I maintain oversimplifies the matter) answer the "is extracting information from LL software files and compiling it into lists intended use of the software."

Show me the post that states a DIRECT answer to that question. And my others. There isn't one. Answering them to your satisfaction means nothing to me. Answering them to MY satisfaction does.I am a long time member in good standing, I pay a high land fee. I am entitled to complete and detailed clarifications of policies that I believe compromise my security and privacy, and practices that I think violate the agreement under which LL takes my money.

So unless you've got something productive to say, see Line 1.

YOU CAN IGNORE THE CONVERSATION IF IT TIRES YOU. Or do you believe you have been granted some higher purpose to save the residents of SL from me and my apparently irresistable to you posting charisma?

You're wrong about people that agree with me fyi. Not everybody that plays SL reads the forums regularly. I will be the judge of when the forums are useless to my point.

I'm disappointed in your ability to look into the possible future of this.

I think there is profound merit in developing an understanding of how our personal data is being used and distributed. I don't think it is unreasonable to want to be assured that our data is used in a manner consistent with out intention. To me respect for privacy is paramount, even in private business transcactions.

I know that many other games do in fact use a master account as a log in, and yet transcactions involving an character are done with a different character name. This is not to say that ther are not multiple good reasons, even absolutely necessary ones, for the exchange of such data, but i think it should be explained and spelled out in the TOS. It is my intent to enter into an agreement with LL. If they are going to share my data with third parties generated pursuant to this contract, then I damn well want to know I am protected, or at least want to be advised of the possiblity before hand.

the advantage I see to an opt in versus and op out position, is that opting in has more of an assurance that people know what is being done with the information and agree to it. Opting out provisions always seem to me to be a clever way deceiving you. Like sites that renew your subscription automatically,unless you follow the generally byzantine cancellation policies.

I am not sure exaclty what the solution might be, or perhaps people feel things are fine as they are. But i don't think the debate is meaningless, and I still, after all these many posts, have not really heard an adeqaute explanation. Grnated I am not the most tech savvy of users, but then that means I am the user who most needs to be made to understand.

Its a little known fact, but on the very first moon walk, Armstrong left his keys for the lunar lander in his other spacesuit. They had to call AAA to get back inside. THEN 35 years later he caught the locksmith selling copies of those keys on EBAY.... Makes you think, huh? What is worse is that I'm the one who bought the used lander (I use it when I want to take cheese holidays) and now I'm totally parinoid that some kid will hop in and take it for a joy ride. It'll probably end up getting dinged by an asteroid or something. *sigh*

oh, and sorry for the off topic post, I know this was supposed to be about hair clippings.

The off topic post is fine. The occassinal troll and/or attempt to divert the topic can be amusing. I also think it can highlight those that have run out of medication.

I naturally totally agree with the point of entering into an agreement with LL and the subsequent use of the data I pay to have allocated to me, and which uniquely IDs me. The fact that this data is part of your game login and website login, which can be used to access your account details including the relevant numbers of your credit card data, is certainly worth examination. Stating that it can not ever be used for any hack attempts whatsoever is just denial for the sake of denial.

It also begs the answer to the question...

...does LL release this info, and any and all other info obtained within the grid, into the true public domain, for use by anybody, for any reason, including for sale, and, do they also explicitly release themselves from any and all responsibility for/of the use of it?

Should they tell people BEFORE they sign up that this is the case? Is it deceptive to hide this fact until after you sign up? REGARDLESS of people's opinion as to whether or not it can be used malicously, should they be up front about it so people can make their own choice, based on their own experience and/or predispositions?

Does this practice demonstrate a true concern for "privacy and security in the broadest sense"?

An answer of "yes" would be very interesting to a variety of pundits I believe.

And what of my three due-process inquiries regarding these matters? The text is deliberately bland and to the point. The weeks are going by and still no response. Ignoring my proper inquiries through the Linden created process is acceptable?

Before you post snipes, remember, YOU have the power to ignore this thread. Short of capitulating, which I decline to do, I do not have the power to prevent your from reading, and being bothered by, it.

This is not a snipe, just pointing out that credit card information is masked on the web site - you can only see the last few digits, the rest is displayed as XXXXXXXXXXX. You cannot edit the existing card, only enter a new one.

I am trying to understand your concerns.

How would we opt out of using user keys?

I do understand your concerns w/ having the avatar and account name the same. I do not think it's as big of an issue as you do, but I comprehend your reasoning there.

The whole user key issue still baffles me, and perhaps everyone else. What am I missing?

Exactly my position too Schwan... and I still have no idea what it has to do with Neil Armstrong's hair.

LOL Chip do yourself a favor and click ignore. I read this and all the other threads started recently and about 90% makes you scratch your brain (not your head).