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Tinted Backgrounds Around Avatar Names And Group Titles

Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
03-03-2005 15:50
From: SuezanneC Baskerville
Surreal, turning the names off completely does not address the issue in the thread.

Cristiano, you are right, there is a big difference between what I wrote and what you wrote. My version gets my point across, yours doesn't. Your version sounds like a polite request from a happy customer about a matter of little concern and doesn't place the request in a larger context. My version sounds like a complaint from an unhappy customer who is very dissatisfied not only about a particular matter but about a tendency of which it a part. My version is better, because it expresses my feelings about the Second Life preview more accurately than yours.

Also, you version is written as if it were a request addressed to Lindens for a feature change. This is the general forum, and the message is addressed to the other customers,
not particularly to Linden employees.


Your version gets the point across that you can complain about something, yes. Your version gets across the point that you find cosmetic changes to the client useless - though Torley's post quite eloquently shows why they are not, though I am sure you didn't take that into account. They are just being silly wasting their time on useless cosmetic changes - not looking for ways to improve the look and feel of the UI. If the background on a name tag is a big concern to you, then your priorities are way out of whack - there are already options to turn them off.
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SuezanneC Baskerville
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Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
03-03-2005 16:21
Where is the option to make the name and title background transparent while leaving the names displayed?
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SuezanneC Baskerville
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Join date: 22 Dec 2003
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03-03-2005 17:42
Torley, what do you think about the way the prim type icons in the create mode of the object editor light up?

The effect lights up the entire square, decreasing the contrast between the background and the prim depicted on it. To my eye it is harder to distinguish what it is once it is highlighted because it is washed out. It also possible to move the cursor in between the squares and have two of them lit up at once. If you then click without moving the mouse, one of the prim types will be selected and the other will stay lit.

It could have been done in such a way that the background of the square lit up while the prim icon itself stayed the same brightnessl. That would make which square was under the mouse quite noticable without making the tile hard to read.

"Cosmetic changes" to me does not mean any and all changes to the appearance of the interface. "Cosmetic changes" refers to changes which produce no increase in usability. It has to do with the idea that beauty is skin deep, and that cosmetics change the appearance of the surface but do nothing to enhance the essence within. For example, the use of rounded ends on thumb buttons on scroll bars. Does this increase the usefulness of the program as compared to right angle caps? To me it doesn't. That would be an example of a cosmetic change. Time spent changing from one to the other is time which should have been spent on something useful, and an opportunity for something to go wrong as well.
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
03-03-2005 17:45
From: SuezanneC Baskerville
Torley, what do you think about the way the prim type icons in the create mode of the object editor light up?


Suez! Can ya please show a screenshot of what you mean? I'm not sure what you're referring to. Thanks! :)
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Alondria LeFay
Registered User
Join date: 2 May 2003
Posts: 725
03-03-2005 18:10
Okay, I did not read this whole thread, however I must say this is icky-yucky-bad-bad. I logged onto the preview and basically my screen had these constantly bouncing around bubbles. Honestly, I started feeling ill. Please, please allow an option for the old, simple floating text for those whome don't want the hyper-active bouncy things.
gene Poole
"Foolish humans!"
Join date: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 324
03-03-2005 19:27
From: Surreal Farber
...
You can turn it off two ways. Under the Preferences menu > Show Names. Choose Never or Show Temporarily. Worked for me in Preview last night.


"Show Temporarily"? I wonder if that's the same thing as what I was about to propose:

What about an option to not display names of any avs, except when you hover over them with the mouse (and then the bubble-background should be optional as well)? I don't need to see everyone's name all the time. I can recognize some people just by their look, as I do in RL. And if I'm not sure who someone is, I can just hover on them for a sec. Easy peasy.
SuezanneC Baskerville
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Making the backgrounds transparent is not enough
03-03-2005 21:26
Making the backgrounds transparent is not enough, unfortunately. After looking at it again I realized that the spacing of the names reflects the size of the surrounding tinted area. Just making the backgrounds transparent will leave a disproportionate amount of space between the name and the avatar.

In addition the darned things move around, and they move around in response to your movements, regardless of the fact that the avatars they represent didn't move a bit, and that produces a misleading sense of motion where none occured. And unless I was seeing things wrong, they move around in such a way that the names will at one time be in A B C order and with just a slight change in your av's position change to C B A order, making it very misleading.

The system we have now is not perfect but to my eyes it's vastly better than it's replacement . I would like to have the option to to not use the new style at all but instead retain the current behavior exactly as is. I do keep the name display turned on at all times, I can't keep track of what everyone looks like, I want to see their group titles because that reflects something about the people behind the av, and I don't want to have to move the cursor around to make their names and titles show up one by one.
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Seth Kanahoe
political fugue artist
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,220
03-03-2005 21:56
In a crowd, I can't see the world for all the bubbles. That means I either have to get away from people to look around, commit the antisocial act of turning off their names, or ignore the world and focus on community and togetherness. I can't smoothly "multitask" or "interface" between two different desires and functions.

It's a minor point, and I'll get used to it. But subjectively, in my own opinion, it looks and feels more like a video game / chat room / in-your-face / emphasis-on-social-side sort of thangy, and less like a hardcore virtual reality.

So as not to seem negative, I'll say that I'm impressed by a number of the other features.

edited for a typo
Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
03-03-2005 21:59
From: gene Poole
"Show Temporarily"? I wonder if that's the same thing as what I was about to propose:

What about an option to not display names of any avs, except when you hover over them with the mouse (and then the bubble-background should be optional as well)? I don't need to see everyone's name all the time. I can recognize some people just by their look, as I do in RL. And if I'm not sure who someone is, I can just hover on them for a sec. Easy peasy.


We have always had the ability to turn off names over people's heads, or to show them temporarily (ie..when you first see the avatar). Why people leave names turned on all the time is beyond me - I find giant floating names rather distracting - if I want to know who someone is, I move my mouse over them and a tooltip pops up with their name. The giant floating names ruin the immersion for me - I turn them off in World of Warcraft also
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SuezanneC Baskerville
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Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
Accomodating the visually impaired.
03-03-2005 22:01
As far as making changes to the appearance of the interface in order to please those with unusual vision problems, if those changes cause displeasure to the vast bulk of people, who don't share those troubles, perhaps the designers might want to consider this thought posted elsewhere by Torley:
From: someone
Let's gently consider the following quote for a second:
"The needs of the many outweight (sic) the needs of the few, or the one." - Spock
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

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http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
Yes, what about accomodating the visually impaired?
03-03-2005 22:56
^ yes, like she said about what I said, and like what I said about what I said. I will expand on this:

From: Torley Torgeson
While I don't plan on having translucent avatar names all the time, the additional contrast can help -- and has already been pointed out, Lindens will be doing something about the OPTIONS.

Bold added for emphasis, and an echo of Rei's earlier declaration. Like closed-captioning, it's nice to have as a tool you can pull out when it's necessary. You don't have to be deaf either: hence "Preferences".

The Lindens know about this because I've been dogged yet gentle with them about it before.

I thank them for their patience. :)

Also quoting myself:

From: Torley Torgeson
RRL = Really Redundant Loop

Suez, you know we get along well and I take the time to listen to you and your concerns, but there are four things I'd like to add for clarification. Here goes:

-I hope your last post wasn't made specifically with me in mind, or any other SL Residents who may be a minority, but nevertheless exist and find the new options helpful -- if it was, then I might find that hurtful. :(

-The ";(sic)" in your quote of me quoting Spock is not accurate because my original -- seemingly mispelled quote, was a cultural reference and a bit of an inside joke. ;)

-Please post a screenshot as I asked earlier, so I can get better insight into what you're trying to point out with the new building interface.

-I have long been a vanguard of SL as a community of tolerance and respect, in addition to being mindful of diversity and to put the needs of others first. An example would be:

/120/a7/34583/1.html#post368917

:D
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Kasandra Morgan
Self-Declared Goddess
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 639
03-03-2005 23:23
From: Shadetree Mechanique
yeh, i looked at those screenies, and immediately thought, "welcome to Second There" :D

ROFLMAO
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Kasandra Morgan
Self-Declared Goddess
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 639
03-03-2005 23:38
From: Cristiano Midnight
We have always had the ability to turn off names over people's heads, or to show them temporarily (ie..when you first see the avatar). Why people leave names turned on all the time is beyond me - I find giant floating names rather distracting - if I want to know who someone is, I move my mouse over them and a tooltip pops up with their name. The giant floating names ruin the immersion for me - I turn them off in World of Warcraft also


I leave names on all the time. When I am playing tringo, I can see the names of all the people in front of me that are kicking my butt so I know exactly which avatars to hate. If I had to hover over each and every one of them I wouldn't have time to place my piece and I would lose even worse and if they all had bubbles over their head I wouldn't be able to see the the top five score board or which pieces have been used.
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Kasandra Morgan
Self-Declared Goddess
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 639
03-03-2005 23:44
I understand why some people are upset with added visuals before bug fixes. Its like if your dad was a mechanic and you told him that while your car runs, sometimes you have to turn the key multiple times to start it, sometimes it shuts down when you stop at a light and sometimes its hard to turn the wheels. Then you get home one day to find you have a new paint job and hydrolics. While thats nice and all, you'd probably prefer being able to steer.

Personally the only bug I have to deal with regularly is object moving around as I am building. Thats not so bad. But if I was trapped in one sim or had to relog constantly, I'd be complaing about the damn ugly bubbles too.
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