The First National Bank of Shebang is now open for business

Loans to $500. Come fill out an application =)

Free wall calendar with every application!


#!
President, FNB of Shebang

Very Cool!

I've been on vacation last week - just seeing this.

Banking is something we've been thinking lots about - important to start pooling/loaning money to make the SL economy work most effectively for everyone - the reputation/scoreboard/stipend system is intended as a baseline system, with user-created systems like this ultimately taking over.

Hurrah! I'll fill out an application - If I'm not a good credit risk, I don't know who is..

Guess I'd better get that wall calendar done then, eh?

And a kiosk for the applications...

And hire some "muscle" for collections =)


#!

Shebang, where is your bank?

I'll contract out "muscle" for the discriminating banker.



BBC - the only user who has been killed twice in his own home with his own gun

Where is my bank? Currently it's in my inventory =) I've got the script about 1/2 finished, and the loan desk object itself (it's actually a clone of the help station) finished.

I was thinking I'd place it near a common location -- by the Consignment Store, perhaps?

If anyone is in need of a loan before the bank is completed, just drop me an IM.

The calendar is another story -- the texture for it just doesn't want to upload. Might have to change my policy and give the calendar when the loan is repaid, rather than with every application.

BBC, you're hired =)

#!

It's located next to the door of the consignment store. Big green thing (looks suspiciously like a Help Station). Can't miss it.

One thing: it is not an ATM machine. It does not dispense $$ (if I had it doing that, I'd be broke in 10 minutes flat). Click it and it will offer you a notecard which explains how to apply for a loan.

#!

This is an awsome idea, I second Phillip. But I got questions for the Lindens. Since this obviously will help the community, will certain privledges be granted for the "repo/debt collectors".

Something along the lines of converting their property to the banks property to be deleted or sold to recover the banks losses, also if this part is possable , when ownership changes or items get deleted due to the repo, something needs to be put in place so the dead beat cant get double credit(getting money back for items deleted or changed from ownership).

We also need a varifiable means to track the loans and payments that will be acceptable by the powers in charge(Lindens) if a repo gets ugly.

Im sure more suggestions will be made and I may come up with more, But I would love to be a part of helping this bank idea along.

Sign me up as a repo man please

Yikes, Charlie, that scares me. Repos could get VERY ugly.

Let's say Flyk got into financial trouble, couldn't repay her loan, and the bank reposessed Godzilla. And sold it. Flyk would be devastated and the whole community would be in an uproar.

Or let's say Flyk knew what was about to happen and she put Godzilla into her inventory to protect him. What would the bank do?

Let's say the bank decided not to repo Flyk's Godzilla, but the bank decided to repo property that was not as well known and liked as Godzilla -- the community may not as a whole react so strongly, but what about the person who's just lost their property as they watch the support for Flyk, and they have little or no support?

I empathisize with the bank's need to be able to recover on a loan, but the idea of repo scares me. Maybe banks could just not loan out more than they are willing/able to lose if the person can't repay.

Kerstin

Ok, Charlie, you're hired. You do realize that for the time being, this is a commission only job? Sorry bout that, but I simply can't afford any full time employees just yet.

Of course I do have some concerns about not getting repaid.

I *think* it will be fairly easy to track in the database -- the application station emails me whenever a loan is applied for.

I'll keep those emails for my own records (so I know when and how much a loan is due). At least, I'll keep the ones that actually GET the loan.

If BillyJoeBob (apologies if we actually have a resident named BillyJoeBob!) defaults on his loan, you or BBC will have a little chat with him. If he still doesn't pay up, I go to a Linden with the time/date the email was sent and the time and amount of money transferred from my account to BillyJoeBob. It *should* be fairly simple at that point to check the database, see that (a) the email was sent, (b) the money did change hands from me to BJB, and finally (c) that there has not been a subsequent payment from BJB to me.

Of course, I could end up destitute myself. Banks do fold IRL occasionally. That's a risk I'm willing to take.

Anyway, if you do have more ideas, I'm listening (and hope the Lindens are too! =)

I'll order a set of business cards for you.

#!

Kerstin: I don't like repos either. Not IRL, and not in the game.

Charlie and BBC are my Muscles. They're my Guidos. They'll "lean" on the person and "persuade" them to pay up. Might even break a virtual kneecap or two. <G> Just kidding.

If after being talked to by Charlie and/or BBC, the person still doesn't pay up, that person will then receive between 1 and 3 negative ratings (I won't force Charlie or BBC to negatively rate someone, because what if it's a friend of theirs?). Since negative ratings affect the weekly stipend, I think this would be a good push to get those loans paid off. People who do pay on time (before Charlie/BBC has to talk to them) will get a positive rating. People who pay *early* will get a positive rating as well as a break on the interest rate.



Yeah.. just remember tho that this bank is 100% funded by *me* =) This isn't just some faceless corporation with unlimited cash.

I do appreciate your concerns -- and wanted to assure you that I have no intention of repossessing anything.

#!

Im sorry for givin you a scare Kerstin, lol this is starting to get real lol. Anyway, I was in the repo buis irl so dont mind me. Ultimatly I only ment to figure out how collections could work cus its by the niceness in Shebangs heart that the loans will exist and im getting predisturbed (prematurely i guess) that there is a possability that someone would/could take advantage of this.

Believe me it is more than I could do, I at best could only feel good loaning to friends, Shebang is opening this to people unknown.

Sorry for scarin a friend, I wont take all your hard work Kerstin

I think there will also be "wanted" posters in the welcome area showing the name and "last known appearance" of folks who don't repay their loan.

All this aside, just as in RL, if (general) you are having a problem repaying a loan, come and talk to me BEFORE the loan is actually due. I can always extend the due date without giving a negative rating or plastering your av-face all over the world =)

I don't think it's going to be much of an issue. I honestly believe that SL people are good at heart and won't take advantage of me.

#!

awwww that's ok, Charlie. I just worry a lot about people getting hurt by things that are unforeseen. I wasn't worried about myself cuz I don't think I'll be borrowing money. And I don't have anything to take away cause I'm too poor. lol.

And of course I don't want to see Shebang getting stiffed either.

Shebang, if somebody tries to rip ya off, you could count on it that I'll be right there by ya, supporting you.

Hmmmm.... Shebang, are you going to offer savings accounts? I could use a safe place to keep the SLotto! money.

Kerstin

I think the bank loans are a great idea, I also hope Shebang doesn't end up in the poor house while trying to help others.

Maybe you could get a group of people known as "friends of the bank" that will join you in giving the non-paying person a negative rating. If you get 20 or 30 people on this list, it would have a significant effect on someones status. If you decide to do something like this, put me on the list....

Tracey

Ooo - yah, can we get interest bearing accounts? - that way you could finance more loans, and if we aren't apending money, we could make a little. Man, this might be turning to real, but if you really want to be able to offer loans, you might need some extra capital.

That being said, I think the Lindens might be pleased to know that not only am I the first landlord in SL, I think I am the first in-game shareholder, having just agreed to finance a hot little start-up called "Shakespear by the Sea." Viva in game economy!

BTW #! - you said once you know Perl, personally, I've never touched the stuff on the advice of my doctor. But from what I know about it, you should be able to set up some sort of interface where inworld objects can interface directly with your "bank db" via email (they tell me you can email objects inworld as well as have objects email you.) That way you could set up ATM's around the world, have credit accounts etc with the ease of real banking.

Crazy huh?

BBC

Wow, the idea of 20 or 30 people ganging up on someone to give them a negative rating really disturbs me. Imagine the emotional devastation from something like that. If that happened to me, I'd leave the game, cry for days, and never come back.

I dunno... I've never been involved in a game with ratings like this (actually I've never been involved in any game before hehe). So I never even thought about anything like that. For those of you who have, is that how it's supposed to work?

Kerstin

cept instead of ratings... everyone posts on forums and shouts it out in the game that <person> is a liar and thief ... dont ever trust them... at all... under any circumstances...
until eventually alot of people get ripped off... and that person becomes unable to talk to anyone because they will end up... doing something bad to him... probably killing him...

As far as I understand, the ratings system is just their to prevent greifers. The thinking is that you don't want negative ratings because you will get less resources, and then be able to do less. Unfortunately, we arn't seeing the ratings be as effective as they should be - I remember Kerstin saying she only got ~$80 with a rating of +31. if she was a nasty person, and had a negative rating, she wouln't make any money...but she wouldn't loose it ewther according to my understanding. She would be out $80, or 8 primatives, which really isn't enough to keep some annoying person from putting you in a cage in your own home, or pushing your friends off ledges.

I was also a little worried about ganging up on people. However, I think that for the most part the people who would be wont to gang up on a single user are greifers, who are usually the minority, and usually loners in-game (don't like other griefers greifing their greif...or sumptin like that). so the prospect of a bunch of folks rating you neg is pretty low (unless you push them off ledges). If it happens to be the best way of "collecting" from shebang's debters - well, don't cry - you know its not personal, and that those ratings can be retracted after you pay back your debt. And if you are a really nice person like Kerstin, chances are that others will step up and help you pay off your loans if you really need the help. after all (and this is important to remember) it is just "play" money.

The part where I am worried about is when Groups get really big and powerfull, and they start to fued, everyone in both groups will start rating the other group negative. Therefore, I propose "group ratings", to go with my proposed group budgets so that individuals aren't unduly punnished because of the cross-sim arena qudditch rivalry.

(arena quidditch is in development by yours truly)

BBC

I just had an interesting brain storm. Not only could We offer loans, but we could setup some kind of successfull financial guide.(Credit counseling). Like offer advice as to the best strategies if forced to loan, due to financial hardship. Like something along the lines of: Dont use he loan to build the mansion on the hill. As we all know that would be nice but then you again will run out of dough and taxes come due and your flat broke and cant repay the loan. Instead figure out to buy a small plot and hone your skills to be able to make money from the borrowed money.

Now one last question for Shebang:
Will these be lump sum repayments with interest or weekly payments towards the balance? I think the bank would stand to make more and get payments easier if it was a weekly repayment plan. But I know this could be a SL accounting nightmare.

Kerstin first: You said "Wow, the idea of 20 or 30 people ganging up on someone to give them a negative rating really disturbs me."

It disturbs me, too, K -- but it doesn't disturb me as much as being shafted for $500. I don't think it would get to that point, but I have to have some kind of contingency plan in place. IRL, if you don't pay your debts you can be sued, go to jail (do not pass Go), have your wages garnished, etc. No, the game isn't RL, and we don't WANT the icky parts of RL in it -- and one of the icky parts of RL is loaning money to folks who never repay you and then you yourself are in the poorhouse. If that happens to me in game, then I won't be able to make loans to folks who need it -and- will pay it back.

BBC, interest bearing savings accounts sounds like a good idea. I'll look into that (and give you a special rate, of course). And yeah, I write a little perl, but as far as DB's go, I know just enough SQL to be D.A.N.G.E.R.O.U.S :/ I most likely will have a perl script to help me keep track of everything, but for now at least that's all it'll do. No ATM's for at least a month or two while the kinks are getting ironed out.

Tracey, how about a Board of Directors? This might be a Good Thing. I'll get back to you on this, but just off the top of my head I'm thinking Board Members would get discounted loans as well as a monthly dividend (portion of loan interest taken in).

Lots of good comments here, folks -- keep it up, please =)

#!

Charlie,

re Credit Counseling -- beef it up a little more (like how would it make the bank *and* the counselor [you?] money) and then call my secretary -- we'll do lunch. LOL

No, seriously, I like the idea, but I don't want to overwhelm myself right off the bat. The bank is less than 24 hours old right now, and currently has no loans out in the world. Let's seriously talk about this again in a few days or a week, ok?

Repayment of loans: Loans are due within 15 days of the day the money is transferred to the Applicant. The interest charged will be 15%. On the 20th day, which is the day I send you or BBC to have a chat with them, it's 25%. On the 25th day the negative ratings begin (1 at a time).

If the Applicant pays the loan back early (within 8 days of having obtained it), then the interest due is only 10%.

If the Applicant comes to me*** -before- the 15th day and asks for an extension (and offers a partial payment), then a 1 week extension will be granted. In this case, you/BBC wouldn't be called in until 2 days after the end of the extension period. Etc etc etc.

This is all off the top of my head, and subject to change if the Board votes for a different schedule.

Wow.. my "little" database is going to have a lot of tables in it. This is sounding more and more fun all the time =)


BBC, you're right -- losing say $80 because your rating has dropped isn't really that huge of a deal right now. I'm hoping that the stipend for ratings increases to a static amount, rather than a share of the pool...

#!

*** The applicant "comes to me" via IM in world or via email -- I'm fairly certain my email address here on the boards is unblocked, and I'll add it to my profile as well.

Thank you for saying such nice things about me, BBC. *blushes furiously*

I like the idea of group budgets -- I keep wondering where money is going to come from for civic projects -- parks and museums and educational centers etc etc. Group budgets could be the answer.

Shebang, I dunno. I sure wouldn't want to see your bank take so many losses that it became insolvent. Your bank *needs* to succeed. But I don't want to see people ganged up on either. I don't have another answer -- I wish I did. I will give some thought to other effective means you might be able to use. I dunno -- maybe you could stick 'em in my AFK corral. LOL.

The interest bearing savings accounts are a great idea. Just like in r/l banks, you could use that money to provide loans. It would help to separate your personal money from 'business' money, and afford you less risk.

All this is so interesting -- it will be fascinating to watch -- and participate in -- how it evolves.

Anybody wanna start a discussion about a judicial system? *grin*

Kerstin

I'm sorry, but if someone takes a loan and willingly doesn't pay it back, or make any effort to make other arrangements, they deserve to be ganged up on. Peer pressure goes a long way.

Having said that, I am new and don't know many of you, so I may change my ideas after being here awhile. As in R/L, this is a learning experence.

Tracey

I believe I read somewhere that "ganging up" ratings-wise is not acceptable behavior. I would think this goes either way, for good or evil. What is to stop the nonpayment borrower from negatively rating Shebang, and finding others to do the same? Maybe borrowing money to pay others to rate Shebang and/or her muscle guys negatively. Something to think about.

Shebang, you may want to consider some long term repayment plan too. If I was low on funds and had the choice of borrowing and repaying with interest over a 15 day period or waiting for the stipend to repleshish my funds over the same time period, I think I would choose waiting. IMHO - it would be more inviting if I could repay a loan over a longer period of time, while still being able to replenish my funds.

fen