SL Fines For Violaion of SL Big Six Community Standards

If linden wanted to they could legally sue him for over $10,000 USD or more. For many legit legal reasons. Online terrorism, losses, disrupting service...

my point is, a fine doesnt have to be a 10$ fine...depending on the severity of the crime it can be quite a bit more.

Quote where I personally attacked you. I haven't.

It is frustraing to me though, that I cannot convey the thought, "THIS PUNISHES UNEQUALLY" to you. By your own words, it only works on "a large majority" - showing that you've already stated that this is unequal punishment.

So I suppose you can post a few responses:
1. Show how unequal punishment is okay.
2. Retract your statement that this would solve "a large majority" and instead show how it would be equal to all economic classes in SL.
3. Find a flaw in my logic and point it out.
4. Acquiesce and admit that fines would not be any deterrant to rich players.

Absolutely. I agree.

But that would be a US court levying the fine under the authority of elected government. And the US government already has a mechanism in place to deal with richer offenders - punitive damages.

Perhaps you would like to explain why you would want these players, lower class or not, who intentionally crash sims, or disrupt activities in SL NOT to be punished? As to the personal attack, no not on me. But on Jenna.

Good luck getting a private company to legally 'fine' a private citizen anything, in real dollars. Seriously.

If it's a fine in L$... it's irrelevant. Griefers don't care about L$, usually.

And please don't use the word 'terrorism'. It's being bandied about far too much, far too inappropriately, lately. I'm going to drown in my own vomit if I hear it again. (hey, stop cheering everyone!)

Oh. My. Lord.

Where did I say I didn't want them to be punished? What rubbish is this?

I said that suspension / banning should be enforced more strictly. Period.

Under the current TOS they could legally fine a player for misconduct.

I disagree. They could probably sue a player. There's no way on earth they could apply a 'fine' that would have any legal backing.

Agreed it SHOULD, but it ISNT.

No. Not while they are so incredibly inconsistent with interpreting and dealing with 'crimes'.

Well, actually, not at all, no. If you're going to have fines, then really you need some sort of arbitration system with some 'real' recourse for appealing, instead of an all encompassing 'what the Lindens say goes', and that probably goes back to giving players power for 'jury duty' and all that crap - it'll all eventually lead to a player run government and then where will we all be? Thats right. Working for Ulrika!!!

Is that what you want? Cuz that's what will happen!

Currently the TOS states that linden can take any action deemed necessary to deal with misconduct. That could include fining

Okay, so what about saying that I didn't want griefers to be punished?

Oh for crissake! Under your interpretation they could murder and rape and pillage and that would be okay. *rolls eyes*

It's assumed that they have to act within their legal restraints.

You keep speaking of how this would be unfair... I personally think its unfair that they should be able to come in, harass people, disrupt the ability of other players to enjoy SL, and get a slap on the wrist or lose a basic account which they can easily create another. Regardless I've stated my position on this, I think, quite clearly. As you have yours. I have things to do so, see ya in SL! ^_^

Look, no one likes griefers, duh.

But that has nothing to do with whether a fine on griefers is fair on the basis of economic class. If you make punishments that rich people won't care about, then rich people are basically above the law. That's just silly, and I know you'd agree.

Just get beyond the point where you somehow think I'm defending griefers, and it'll make sense.

ttfn!

The rich if the do break a rule they will still face being warned, banned, and/or suspended. My idea is to stop them early on so they know as they get richer that Linden can and will take action to their in game assests. If a rich person things this form of punishment is a easy way to run about breaking rules because they are rich will still face being banned and/or suspended. By having both we can reduce misconduct on all levels. I put an idea out there you can agree to some or parts but at least fine if any good in it and change it into what you think will work. By just shooting every idea that comes long with negative points no idea will be considered because it is impossible for all to agree on one thing. Im not asking you to agree with me but to find what is good in the idea if nothing is good in the idea at least then find your own idea as you have to confront this problem because it is a problem. You say stricter punishment but those come later after so many repeated offenses. Why not hit them in their wallet early on so they will think twice when they want to repeat.

Because it doesn't hit them in their wallet when they can afford the fine.

Consider a traffic ticket. You think Donald Trump cares about a $45 ticket? NO!

Same thing here. You think a rich SLr will care about a 100L fine? Even a 1000L fine? Hardly.

It's pointless.

Having delt with many people in sl for some time now, i have concluded that economic class has NOTHING to do with how a person behaves. In my opinion Jenna Fairplay's original post is on the whole an excellent idea. Players such as Sexy Pimp Volos (a.k.a. Baller momo), have committed several violations of the "SL BIG 6". If when he was newb, and commited an sl crime, and recieved a fine and possibly suspenision depending on what he did. It might have discouraged him from future actions. Also the fact that the punishments get harsher for repeat offenders would also detour players from committing offenses. As far as an economic bias is concerned, the "rich" players in most cases have more to lose because they invested more into the game. Any fines should not only be based on the severity of the "crime" but also on a percentage of the players net worth. Please if somebody is going to respond to my comments, do not take pieces out of context and misconstrude them. It's unprofesssional and shows a sincere lack of originality. The forums are wonderful as long as people realize that they are an OPEN DEBATE, and not meant for personal attacks. Have a nice day and hope to see you in SL.

But that doesnt change the fact that traffic tickets do exist. And even donald trump can lose his license if he gets too many tickets. The same can apply here.

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And the losing the license is completely independant of the fines. In Second Life, we already have the lose-the-license mechanism. There's no need for the fines.

And traffic tickets are given out by a legitimate government elected by people.

And I've said these before.

Alright, I'm tired and cranky now. i'm done with this thread.

Hey, don't knock it. I'm a socialist, so you know the benefits will be great.

~Ulrika~

But do you see Donald Trump speeding? Im sure when he was learning how to drive he was taught early on that if he had a traffic violation that there were fines and punishment if not both. I feel that do punish but also a fine is a way of stopping people early on from repeating their actions.

So is beating them with a belt.
Just because it's a way to stop people early on from doing something, doesn't mean in and of itself that it's good. Punishment should be fair and appropriate, and for the people who are already rich, it isn't.

And personally, i think early on, it would send the message to people, "If you become rich, these fines won't matter."

Your suck on this rich issue so dont fine speeders because the rich wont care if the speed? why have fines for anything the rich wont care but guess what they do they care about the punishment AND the fines because based on the level of misconduct they will be punished and/or fined if not both. Your so stuck on this RICH issue and not looking at the over-all benfit.

Real life traffic tickets are unfair for that reason. They probably SHOULD be more expensive for rich people. Why would we bring that unfair system into SL?

Plus RL tickets have fines because they help support the police. Lindens obviously won't benefit for the fines.

We have the opportunity to shape the online world to whatever we want. Why settle for unfair? Why not start fresh and promote a society of equal treatment?