"Borrowed" textures and scenes

Some of the greatest builds in SL have included textures and scenes taken from other games. Some builders even assert a copyright claim to their creations, creations made using textures taken and borrowed from other sources.

Everyone agrees there are some amazing builds in SL, but should the creators acknowledge the other game and/or artist who originally created the textures and scenes? Should the original source of the scenes and/or textures be disclosed when the build attracts major attention or Linden sponsorship?\

If a scene or building is "borrowed" from another game or source, and special effects applied in Photoshop. then the scene/texture is used in a build here in SL, is that enough of a change to the texture to justify the SL builder taking credit for the texture?

All the pictures I submitted for the Seburo contest were made on backdrops from screenshots I took in V:TM Bloodlines... please don't sue me... and play the game! It's great

This is an important ethical question. My fusion power plant was textured half with original textures and half with goodies taken from other sources. I'm not making any sort of profit from the plant -- it was just a fun weekend hobby.

An avatar I'm building, on the other hand, has been textured completely with original work. Between Phtoshop and After Effects (for some animation) I've put in plenty of hours into just texturing. Why? Because once everything is done I want to sell this thing with clean hands.

Copyright and trademark infringements exist in the same legal limbo as fanfic. An "homage" to your favorite other game or novel or movie or famous person can and might be pursued as an infringement of intellectual property, even if it's against the owner's best interest to do so.

Marvel Comics vs City of Heroes, anyone?

Disregarding the infringement issues for a minute, what about the SL builder taking creative credit for the texture or scene? Is there a disclosure issue?

What about when the build attracts great attention from the community and the Lindens, including major SL web site focus...does that affect your opinion?

It's also entirely possible they were employed by said game company and really DO have the rights to say they created the textures, effects, whatever....

So slinging accuasations of borrowed / stolen / infringed content around can be pretty destructive and end the accuser in a lot of trouble...

I know a few Devs here in SL who have worked on other games, and yeah they DO use content they created for another outlet, when I asked them if they were concerned about accuasations, they told me 'why re-invent the wheel, I already made all these great textures, besides I thiink it would be amusing to be accused of stealing your own work'

So, just a little something to keep in the back of your head....

And yeah it's still a huge blurry line from what is fan art and what is infringement... But for the most part game content only has it's logos, interface, name, game engine, etc, etc copyrighted. And even then they release press kits for fan sites with logos and stuff....

ok, that was a bit more than two cents worth of rambling, I'll stop now.

Katy, Im not sure I fully understand what your getting at.

Are you saying someone has made somthing to replicate the environment of another game?

Is it totaly distinguishable as the other game or has the textures been modified in a new method of construction that does not emulate the orginal game/environment/location etc.

Or does the textures come from a totaly different environment?

I am interested and not flaming here curious as you have been very vague in your reflection of what has been done to bring this question to Light.

Shadow

Ohhh 3 cents worth... had another thought....

What about photo sourced clothes and skins?

certainly we can't start clipping all of that content out of SL, and the poses and BVH files that have been imported too, there is a lot of 'borrowed content to be accounted for, any given inventory probably contains at least a third 'borrowed' content.

The discussion probably refers to the Chinatown project which relies heavily on textures from the Hong Kong levels of the game Soldier of Fortune 2.

Clothing is definitely a gray area. Clothing designs themselves can't be copyrighted, but textile patterns can be. Photos of clothing used for online stores can also be copyrighted but they aren't art and their use in SL is limited to replicating the real world clothing designs that themselves aren't copyrighted. A clothing company could argue infringement even if you're not using their brand name but to my knowledge it would be precedant setting. I'm no copyright expert though and any of the above might be wrong. If photosourced clothing in SL isn't legal I'll be the first one against the wall

Let's disregard the legal copyright/TM issues for the sake of this discussion.

Conceptually, presenting another artist's scene or texture as your own, in whole or in part, is the ethical equivalent of artistic plagiarism.

Consider this example: Assume arguendo that a poetry/essay competition was held in SL. Assume also that the event drew major attention and the winning poems and essays were published on the main SL web site page. What if the winner's poem was borrowed in whole or part from a work created by another, found on another web site or published in a book.

Should LL be concerned that it features plagiarized work on its web site? Is the SL community entitled to know that the work it admires and credits to one member was in fact created by another, in whole or in part?

When a texture in SL is taken from another source, whether it be from the public domain, the web, or another game, is it wrong for the borrower to take credit and bask in the glow of admiration for the creation of a texture or scene that was actually, to be nice about it, "borrowed."

I think a distinction can be made between generic textures such as human skin, which is so common that it can not be claimed to be unique in and of itself. The artist who adapts skin to the template, and paints it, is creating a unique texture.

The textures I wonder about are entire scenes and buildings grabbed intact from another game or source, used in a build as is, or presented with some adaption, and then prominently featured on the SL web site and praised as the creation of one who never created it.

If you were in the position of LL, would you want to know whether the build you feature on the web site was in fact an original creation and not borrowed from another game?

If I paid you to create something, it would be mine. Most companies work the same way.

If I ever saw you using it or even a close enough likeness anywhere else I would insist that you stop immediately. If you didn't I would sue you.

People steal content all over SL. I have to laugh when some of the worst offenders are the same ones complaining that someone is ripping off their clothig design.

I once saw an event selling "original artwork" which I thought was pretty cool. It wasn't original in my opinion. The guy justified it by saying he was the original uploader of the images so his terminology qualified.

As long as there are people with no talent around, that is how things will be.

So much of the "creativity" in secondlife is based on taking pieces of others' work, and recombining them in new and interesting ways, that I'm not particularly concerned if someone doesn't go around crediting each and every contributer to a work. If Chinatown is the work being discussed, let's discuss it. I never once assumed that the textures used in there were built from the ground-up. However, I'd be willing to bet that they were tweaked 5 ways from Sunday to get them juuust right for that particular project.

If LL were held to be responsible for each example of copyright infringement or use of others' intellectual property, then they'd be out of business right-quick. That's why they adopted the sensible position of being willing to remove infringing materials, if and when the owner of the rights informs them.

If you're particularly concerned about a specific build, try contacting the people who hold the rights to the material and see what they do.

Much.....MUCH of what we take granted for in the world around us every day (in-game) is actually pirated Textures, animations, radiostreams for un-paid music. We are presently in the virtual world equivalent of a college dorm. Music, books, software gets traded around on the QT; all of it illegal, but low-key enough that it mostly doesn't attract the notice of the outside world. Many of us profit from materials that are given out for free online; but our business models are dependant on others not copying them from us.

Katy, if you're asking whether we're being deceived by people who put together projects or builds using materials that they themselves did not create, I vote for my part No. I NEVER assume when I see a build that it has been built from the ground-up completely by the creator, and I am still impressed by the many amazing combinations of shapes, textures and scripts that I come across daily in SL.

I posed a similiar question in a slightly sideways manner not too long ago, however:

Is it deceptive if an amazing build gets done, and the creators are themselves on the "inside"? Lindens in disguise?

might be safe to say sl couldn't even exist without copyright infringing. there just aren't enough artists in sl to produce totally original textures and clothes for everybody else and the Linden textures just aren't enough. sorry Lindens.

i dunno.....maybe now that people can sell L$ for US$ it makes a real difference but it seems like it doesn't really matter if somebody uses a texture for a build or clothes. most of the time they're going to change things and use it in a different way from the original. course i'm no lawyer hehe.

Again, I pose this question:

If you were in the position of LL, would you want to know whether the build you prominently feature on the web site was in fact an original creation and not borrowed from another game?

Or, is it so much dog eat dog that it's more important to take the credit, or gain the attention, regardless of the ethics.

No, I wouldn't want to know if I were them.

Knowing would make them culpable.

Part of LL's business model relies on quietly looking the other way until the owner of an intellectual property taps on their shoulder and asks that it be removed.

A better question would perhaps be whether the builds that get featured prominently are related in any way to the amount of direct linden involvement in the project, and if so, is this good or bad for their business model.

Some companies I've ever had contact with don't mind as long as your not profiting again from the work... If you made it, you're free to use it for portfolios or personal projects and the like.

Ah ok I think I get what your getting at. I can't answer your question because in all honesty with so much infringement as it is it would be mega detrimental to SL to have to resort to a "There" submission format in order to upload and build.

In one sense you are catching the infringers but in another you are killing the true creators that don't want or have time to wait on an approval process.

Oh well, eventually things will come out in the wash but its truly sad when you think about what Unhy said and if it's true thats even sadder.

Well, I was not presenting the hypothetical for legal analysis, however since you raised the issue of culpability, copyright infringement is determined without regard to the intent or the state of mind of the infringer. Innocent infringement is infringement nonetheless.

(edit to remove the Quote from Chip, the reply wandered WAY far away from the quote lol)


There isnt any real way to say for sure one way or the other, I tend to lean on the side of "If it looks good, do it" myself.... Ok mind out of the gutter...

I've photo sourced, Ive used content from other non-sl projects...

If the ChinaTown devs have used content from elsewhere and are taking credit for building chinatown in SL, then they have every right to make the claim that they created it in SL, I don't think they have made claims to building it from scratch, I havn't heard that. I have heard they have taken credit for making a wonderful build in SL. Which in fact, they have done, they built it. No other residents made Chinatown, Im sure they did not source another game's content 100% I doubt it's an exact copy. That would be nearly impossible to do when you take into account platform differences, the limitations and build specs of the two platforms etc. Which would mean they would have to mod and rework many textures and add some new ones to make it work.

Granted I have only been to Chinatown once and never played the whatsit game they may have sourced, but common sense says they can't have possibly copied it flat out, it would have taken a lot of work to even come moderately close.

This also brings into question Sci-fan-fiction builds... Ive seen a lot of Vipers from Battlestar Galactica flying around, Ive seen Avatars based on characters that I know are protected.

You can't fly over any given sim without seeing something that has been sourced. Embrace it.

Very true. I wouldn't mind an employee using their work at my discretion. However, it must be at my discretion with approval beforehand.

At this point the work is mine. They have no claim to use it at all.

well if the texture was literally ripped out of another game, chances are that is a copyright violation. Thats no different than playing a looping metallica song on yer land.. though if tis via stream at least, ll can wave their hands in the air... texture rips tho prolly should be removed, if someone goes to all the trouble to identify them as such

It's not infringement if LL isn't actively aware of it, and fortunately for their piece of mind and schedules they don't take the time to be actively aware of the infringement. Particularly since they have a policy of complying with current US law, and removing any infringing materials once they have been properly notified of the infringement.

What I'm most interested in from Chinatown, if that is indeed what we're talking about, is....MORE TUTORIALS. C'mon, Jimmy, share some love with us.

That depends on the company and the contract.

I find it very interesting that concerning "borrowing" textures and scenes from other sources the general consensus seems to be "everyone does it, no big deal," yet when the issue is someone inside SL taking the creation of another and selling it the tune changes.

If I take your SL creation and represent and sell it as my own how does that differ from my taking a texture or scene from another game or web site, created by another, and represent or sell it as my own in SL, what is the difference?

It is conceptually the same issue....isn't it?