Voter registration fraud (US)

By the way, we are talking about individual freedoms here. Voting IS a freedom that each of us have. If one WINS an election due to fraud, that right to vote is basically tossed out the door, along with the rest of our freedoms. Voting is Democracy's greatest freedom, something all of us shouldn't take for granted.

This is not the first or last time civil liberties in the USA have been restricted. To give you a few examples:


John Adams Administration:

The 1798 Alien and Sedition Acts made it illegal to criticize then-President John Adams


Abraham Lincoln Administration:

At the onset of the Civil War, Abraham Lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus, allowing protestors and rioters to be arrested and held without formal charges.


Woodrow Wilson Administration:

During World War I, about 75 Socialist and German-American and a few pacifist or anti-Ally publications lost mailing privileges. Translations of foreign language publications could be ordered. Censorship of all communications moving in or out of the United States was authorized.


Franklin D. Roosevelt Administration:

House of Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), set up in 1938

The Alien Registration Act 1940, made it illegal for anyone in the United States to advocate, abet, or teach the desirability of overthrowing the government.

Executive Order 9066 on Feb. 12, 1942. This Act made it legal for the United States to extract Japanese-American families from their homes, often with only a few belongings, and confine them to one of several internment camps in the western United States


Harry Truman Administration:

Investigation into the Hollywood Motion Picture Industry and black-listing of suspected communist sympathizers.


Martin Luther King and many other civil rights leaders were under constant surveillance.



None of these threw us into fascism, and neither will the patriot act. But lets be realistic, technology has made it extremely easy for government, business, criminals, and everyone else to know everything there is to know about anyone relatively easily. The only way to prevent it is to go hide in a cave.

How quickly we forgive and forget. I know exactly who to blame everytime I have to go through additional security at the airports or when visiting national monuments. I sure as heck don't curse Bush or Congress for it...


-tito

SL is my cave!

I heard they formed a caravan, and are headed up I-35 toward the border to avoid the toxic political climate in the USA.

There is no fraud involved in that - it is to deal with the problem of provisional ballots, which were introduced after the 2000 election. If you are not listed on the rolls but are legitimately registered to vote, you can cast a provisional ballot. If the ballot is found to be valid by confirming your registration, the vote will be counted. There was a limitation that they had to be cast at the correct precinct, which both sides have found to be problematic - especially in a place like Florida, where 4 hurricanes damaged many places that are normal voting precincts. The provisional ballot problem, combined with the precinct restriction, could lead to many legitimate votes not being honored. Nice try though:

http://www.fairelections.us/article.php?id=238
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1010-02.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20041011/1a_lede11.art.htm
http://www.movingideas.org/activism/networks/purges.html

You know, this seems like smoke to me.

I don't recall anyone ever asking me what (if any) my party affiliation was when I registered to vote, went to vote, or anything else for that matter.

I find it highly unlikely that a voter registration form would ever include such a ridiculous question.

Well... crap. Greenland, here I come!

I'm mostly conceding your points, as we all have the right to an opinion. the only contention I'd have is with this point:



Respect must be earned, and can be lost, even when you are the President. I can respect Bush for being what seems to be a family man...and I can even (to a point) respect the fact that he is unswayed by other people's opinions. However, he has made decisions for which I do *not* respect him for. His lack of direction in Iraq and his outright pandering to extremists (in this case, conservatives) lost all the respect he built up in me from 9/11.

There is nothing in the Constitution that says we have to respect the President. In fact, there's a lot in the Constitution that says we can have whatever opinion we want to have. If Bush is having difficulties with the job, then perhaps he shouldn't have campaigned for it. Sure, it's difficult in ways I'm sure we can't comprehend. But if you're a candidate for the Presidency, you go into that job knowing it *is* your responsibility. If Ken Lay can be held responsibile for Enron, then George W Bush can be held responsible for his administration. I personally think he's getting off a bit easy by simply partially losing my respect and vote.

He was there as a reporter for USA today - and even with his press pass was originally denied entry. This is a lot different than your Average Joe wishing to see his leader speak publically.

The whole concept of this boils down to what public speaking has come to - it's not about the public and it's not about speaking. It's about having a bunch of cameras around you with a bunch of agreeable people surrounding you, so when it comes time for the evening news there are a bunch of prescreened questions that are easily broken down into sound bites that put you in a positive light.

Siggy.

Really? Even in the primaries?

But you agree that if it's true it's a bad thing?

Edited to add that in some states, including Nevada, voters are given an opportuntity to state a party affiliation, which most parties require as a prerequisite to voting in their primaries.

Well, I recently registered here in Oregon, and they do in fact have a place on the form to state party affiliation. I don't think it is required but its there, and I'm sure many people check off their party without much thought of things like this happening.

Illinois does ask for party affiliation in order to give you the proper ballot in the primaries.

And with that, here goes my secret: I VOTED DEMOCRAT IN THE PRIMARIES
General Wesley Clark

But I am voting for Bush in the general election. I still have to make my mind up on the Illinois senate race. I would not have voted for the Republican candidate Jack Ryan, and I am glad he withdrew. (Preaching on being such a good Christian while making his wife join him in partner swap sex parties).

Why I am telling you all this? Because my ballot was not lost or thrown to the garbage even though I voted Democrat (or then again, maybe it was since Kerry beat Clark in Illinois)

-tito

I will put it this way. On a personal basis I think Clinton is just barely more reprehensible than Ted Kennedy as far as their personal moral standards seem to be. However, I have infinitely more respect for Clinton having managed to get elected twice and not get driven out of office than I do for anything Teddy boy has done. I didn't agree with but about three decisions or policies I saw Clinton implement or try to... yet I did respect him for doing or trying to do the job most of the time.

If you don't agree with Bush's policies or beliefs, fine. OTOH, he is the guy at the helm for now and until the day he leaves office. For that reason alone I support (read support as respect) him while he is in office. He has earned that simply by sitting at the desk in the Oval Office. When I lay my head on my pillow at night, I trust that anyone holding the Office of the Presidency will do what he honestly thinks best for the country - regardless of whether or not I agree with that specific course of action. I trust that they will act intelligently and not out of personal gain. I have only once seen real evidence to the contrary in my lifetime (no, this ain't the time or place for THAT discussion).

For the most part, I don't hear a lot of Democrats offering that kind of respect to Bush. He does deserve it just as much as Clinton deserved it from Republicans - and unfortunately, not all gave it to him. Too many confused his personal screwups with the question of professional competence. (He did taint, for me at least, his "legacy" by a few comments about being concerned about that very legacy and acting in a manner specifically designed to (try to) enhance that...I won't go into that any further.) What I do hear quite a bit of is what appears to be sour-grape hold-overs from the previous elections, a feeling that that election was stolen and it's time for payback. Gotta tell you.. That doesn't earn ANY respect from me. If your (anyone's) guy is better than my guy, he should be running - not just anyone in order to replace my guy because you don't like him. I think that this sums up the issue for me ---- Bush doesn't get an appropriate amount of respect for actually holding office and I get the feeling far too many people are seeking revenge over the last election... it's truly tainted the last foour years and the current campaign season.

Then I'd have to say it's their own damned fault for wanting to be affilliated with either party.

I'm 100% independent.

What scares me is that there are (apparently quite a few) people in this country dumb enough to believe that the U.N. is fair, unbiased, competent, and last but not least, respectable.

Think about this for a moment, folks... You're talking about giving VETO power over U.S. policy to three countries that wanted to leave Saddam Hussein in power because they were profitting from selling him materials, equipment, and technologies that were strictly forbidden under U.N. sanctions.

The U.N. isn't even a half-assed effective sanctioning body. It certainly isn't competent as a governing body.

Hate to necro a thread but:

Read the news, this behevior is coming from BOTH sides politically. In 20 seperate instances AFL/CIO had their reps storm election offices for the GOP, one instance in Florida led to the injury to an innocent office worker...Yesterday, a story broke in Florida of a lady coordinating voter registrations paying off a worker with crack cocaine, and most of his registrations were people he pulled from the phone book. Shots were fired into a GOP headquarters in West Virginia. Sinclair braodcasting wants to run an anti-Kerry special a few weeks before the election, the Dems are asking the government to step in because they claim this to be an illegal campaign contribution. What, then, do they consider all these concerts given by Springsteen, REM, Dixie Chicks, etc. to be? No word there by the Dems. Personally, I'm neither a donkey or an elephant, I think they are all in it together...and we are all the suckers out here thinking that one side has our interests better served than the other. But, with that said, I am getting sick of hearing all the ridiculous propaganda being spewed lately....draft, not (no one will kill their career on that one), blocking minorities from voting (c'mon get real), scaring old people regarding Social Security and Medicare (every presidential election brings these two up, and they never change anything after elected). I'm just going to work on my house and wait patiently for December. Who cares who wins, next June we will still be in Iraq...Osama will still be on the lamb...and I will be making no more money than I earn for myself. Neither candidate is going to change any of this if elected.

I dont agree with Bush's views on many things. I dont agree with all of his policies. I dont think he is the sharpest tool in the shed.

He was put their by the system we live by, that works pretty damn well and he wont be there forever. 4 more years is a drop in the bucket to even our meager history and I dont think everything will come crashing down because of him and therefore will tolerate him untill I get a chance to put someone else I like better.

I dont have to give the man respect though.

I do think that he is doing what he sees as being right and I will give him that respect, but there are way to many things that I think he lacks and from what I read that isnt debunked he seems to be a pretty prejudice guy. A Joker. A Goof. In the position due to his families power. I dont like the man in general.

BUT, I will not call for his head. I will continue to be a good citizen and not a frothing idiot as many have become on both sides. I expect the same if a democrat is elected.

EDIT: When Isay I dont like the man, I mean as president, since I would probaly get along just fine if he was just some guy I met.

Let me tell you we could use some of the things that went on in Germany during the thirties - like a government that cares about the rights and safety of workers, heavy research into alternative energy sources and protection of children, animals and the environment. Sure the nazis did a boatload of horrible things, but we owe them a lot of simple basic things like unemployment insurance, Social Security, occupational safety laws and the paid vacation, none of which existed before they were invented in Germany and copied by the Roosevelt administration.