Where and when did we go wrong?

actually, there are phases. So it would have to be a multi-part answer.

1. Waiting until 1865 to abolish slavery. Because of this, there was the "civil" war which greatly expanded the power and reach of the federal government.

2. 1913 - Wilson signs the Federal Reserve Act, destroying the free economy *such as it was*, forever. In comes the oligarchy we know and love today.

2a. WWI - fucked europe and led to WWII.

3. The election of FDR. That ass. Created fascism in America right under our noses.

3a. WWII - vastly expanded the power and reach of the Soviet empire leading directly to:

4. The cold war. Orwell was right.

5. The Bush Administration. Orwell was REALLY right.

Being my wife is half American Indian and I hear her relatives tell me stories that are passed down from generation to generation, I would agree that the Indian Wars is where America became not so American. We did not just go and steal thier land and resources, we commited genocide and whiped out entire tribes. I am talking about the American army creeping up while woman and children are sleeping and burning them alive. I am talking about killing the males so we could later rape and abuse the woman. I am taking about 9-12 year old little indian girls being repeatedly raped and passed around the camps of our soldiers. When they were done with these young souls? We simply fed them to the hogs or sunk them to the bottom of a river.

My wife has journals writen in the early 1900's by her great-great-grandfather. Some of the stories told are down right sickening and will never be told to the general public. One of her uncle tried getting some of the stories published many times, oddly they would never make it to the shelves in the book stores.

Beau - lots of Native Americans are collaborating to get their stories, languages and recipes published. There are tons of web sites and I would be happy to share them with your wife if you IM me in world I can give you my email address. What tribe is her family from BTW?

Rose

Yes, I know about the Monroe Doctrine, the War of 1812 (I initially had it as one of my choices) Kennedy/Johnson, Clinton, etc. I was limited to 10 choices, and that is why I lumped a few together and simply didn't make some a choice. These choices were not meant to be all inclusive, I wanted people to point out other things, I was simply limited by the technology. I would also point out that I am not trying to paint any of these eras or events in a negative or positive light, they were more or less intended as timeline markers and conversation starters.

Thanks to everyone that answered. Well thought out and thought provoking points were made by all.

This is an issued that is always on my mind as I have many friends in Canada, Mexico, Asia, Europe, Central America, and Australia, and I am privy to the thought of "auslanders" on this issue. It definately is an issue as I hear about it on the phone, emails, and occasionally letters. It causes an inner turmoil for me. I also have several Native American friends with whom I have enjoyed conversations with concerning their points of view on the subject. I love America, but I hate it too. Hell, my biological father was KIA in Vietnam, and my stepfather was a veteran who decorated my entire bedroom replete with red, white and blue paneling, star spangled drapes, walls painted red, white and blue and patriotic decals, all for the Bicentennial celebration. I went on to serve in the US army and many of my friends and relatives have as well. So as you can see, I was steeped in US tradition. However, I don't like the hypocrisy we seem to employ and have employed in our past.

The words of my Native American and international friends tell me we have problems. I wish there were simple answers to these problems, but there are not. This is why I started this poll. I am hoping that the insights of a diverse group such as ours we help me sort things out to an extent. That's probably wishful thinking, but I am an optimist.

Again, thanks to all of you, and let's continue to keep it civil.

Edit to add: Let's not focus so much about the poll itself and it's limited choices. I am really enjoying hearing your thoughts realted to things both in the poll and not in the poll. They are all valid and the poll itself was not meant to exclude any events in our history. I certainly would've included The War of 1812, The Monroe Doctrine, Wilson, Nixon, Clinton and many, many others had the technology allowed for it. As I stated above, the choices presented were simply intended to be reference points and thought starters. I am thinking that I should've probably posed the question without the poll.

I say it all went wrong as early as Manifest Destiny and the alienation of the indeginous peoples of North America.

Since then, a cathartic obsession with violence and fear has developed a nation that believes it is the center of the world.

Let's go all the way back to 1492. Dude thought he had reached India, and its been going downhill ever since.

Yeah, I know it wasn't exactly the United States back then, but the decline was in progress at its inception.

I always think on the dark sid eo fthings and my personal beliefs is this ....All I gotta say its back to the days of darwin. where we became human we should be evolving and learning better ways to help ourselfs but instead we are destroying ourselfs. if you think this world is perfect it aint but on the bright side there is always hope around the corner. You just have to find that hope.


you asked so you got it