How Long is a Lifetime?

I was referring to basic lifetime access, tiering up, buying a private island sim, stuff like that. Nothing new.

Nicola, that's not quite what I mean, Nicola. Let's take SL, my ISP, and my cable.

They're all services I pay for in advance of the time period I'm going to use them. Netflix is another service I pay in advance for -- the DVD rental service.

So I send off my check, and I live my life sure that I'm going to get that next month's service.

Say Netflix, I don't expect to pay them, and wait and wait and no DVDs show up. And then call and have them say yep we got your check, thank you very much, but you can't rent any movies this month.

It's not a matter of having paid and used the service and gotten that month's service and goodies or whatever. It's a matter of paying... and the DVDs don't come.

We assume they will. We pay our cable and assume we're going to get service that month. We pay SL and assume we're going to get access or our land tier or whatever that month.

We make that payment and we build and we create and we expect to log in and what we made yesterday and our account money and so forth will be there.

But that expectation is baseless. And that's why I said we pay for nothing. Anything we do get is gravy, a favor.

I spent many years as a consultant. Right now I'm looking back and trying to imagine telling a client okay it will be $350/hour, paid at 40 hours a week in advance for the month. And having a clause that says I can terminate service for any reason or no reason. And the client gives me my nice big fat check. And I just go to Hawaii. My clients would have sued for non-performance -- and won.

Why are some services different? And why is that allowed? And why do we all so readily sign up?

All this just never occurred to me before. Again, if anyone has some URL references for this, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks,
Candie

Edited to say:
I should perhaps mention that I'm not a gamer and never have been, so maybe that's why this is so odd to me.

They aren't, though, Candie. Different that is.

For example, many ISPs have a setup fee. Particularly broadband ISPs. You will never see a dime of that back, no matter what happens. That is paying them in advance regardless of what happens in the future.

Likewise, though you might *think* when you send off that check each month that you are guarenteed of that months service, in point of fact, you aren't. Almost all service contracts have a kill-clause in them. I have friends who have run afowl of those a number of times (Hey, what can I say... Some of the people I used to call friend could be real morons). And quite often those kill clauses *specificly* state in them that, in the event they are used, no money is refunded.

Likewise, even though I payed a considerabl amount (for a college student) for my webhost setup fee, and pay each month on it, if I started posting illegal stuff, they would be well within their rights to shut my service off. Not wait till my next billing cycle, not send my money back, nothing.

SL is no different. We just have a small, vocal, tightly knit community, so such things get discussed quite a bit.

I believe candie just really wants some attention. Whenever there isn’t any drama she stirs it up. She bad mouths second life as a whole as well as lindens. Thinks everyone is out to get her, ect. If we all ignore this thread hopefully she will pipe down. ------------ You would think if someone didn’t like a company, they would just go away.

In life nothing is certain but death and taxes. Are you looking for some type of guarantee that LL won't terminate service? I doubt they'd just cut people off without some reason .. be it that you cause problems or if their server room is attacked by monsters, or they go out of business .. I don't get the thread. LL could go under and file bankruptcy. The future is uncertain ..things happen. Anything is possible.

I'd always hope I get the service I paid for, but the best I could ever hope for is that if service did get terminated for something that wasn't my fault I'd get some type of compensation. But this doesn't always happen.

Another thing not related directly to this thread is You pay for cable tv services every month regardless of how much you use it. Same with phone service .. you can't just say "Well I didn't use it" doesn't matter for most people. You are paying for the ability to access it when you want , not for a specific amount of service.

Maybe I'm just not reading closely enough hahah I'm sure I'm way off on some of this and I apologize. Sitting at work talking to a customer at the same time Probably should be focusing on my call haha ..

You're right, Taylor. Please accept my apologies. My posts in this thread are full of drama and cries for attention. And yes, I should pipe down -- I've just ranted and raved all over this thread.

And look at all the insults I tossed all over my posts in here about SL and the Lindens! I'm ashamed of myself.

Tell ya what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna print out your post, and tape it to my monitor. I'll use it as an ever present reminder of how I *should* post in order to come across non-dramatic, non-attention-seeking, non-confrontational, rational, reasonable, and non-inflammatory.

Thanks so much, Taylor, and I hope when I grow up I'll be just like you.

Candie "Drama Queen" Apple

Strictly thinking about the tos issues here. The analogy to an isp or whatever may not be quite applicable here since my isp never offered me a lifetime account. The question then becomes "Is it reasonable to lose a lifetime account because solely in the Linden's opinion, the terms of service have been violated?". As someone else stated, the only way to feel comfortable with that is to have a certain level of trust for the Lindens. I do not have a lifetime account and now I can't get one. But that works for me.

But see, according to the TOS, a violation of the terms of service is not necessary. That's the kicker. "For any reason or no reason".

On May 15, you could pay for your next month's access, talk with Linden and say hey are you going to cancel my account? And they laugh and tell you no and that you have nothing to worry about and they wouldn't do such a thing.

And on May 16, you can't log in. For no reason. Gives me the creeps.

Candie

..and on May 16th I could go out, cross the street, and get hit by a bus. Or SBC could go out of business and take the 49.95 I paid in advance for unlimited calling....or EQ could go tits up and take the remaining 3 weeks of the quarterly pass I paid for in advance and call it a day...

...and none of that gives me the creeps...

Practically speaking, it's not likely to happen that way on May 16th..or any other day worth thinking about right now.

as I said before...sour grapes...

Andrienna, I've never said I thought SL was on the verge of going belly up. Never said it, never thought it. I think it's got quite some time left in it.

No, it's not the attitude that SL is just a game; there are people who would die of shame before they'd cheat at a game of Candyland or Monopoly. Some people just have no sense of honor - or shame, either, in real life or in SL.

And there it is folks. The entire reason Candie started the thread. To take (yet another) jab at the Lindens.

*cough*Troll*cough*

You've been bitching about the Lindens since before I got here in January. If you're THAT unhappy with things, leave.

..yeah, i think it''s got quite alot of timeleft in it as well. The point here is that the "no reason" language covers them for that eventuality.

maybe that's what you're not seeing? LL could, quite frankly, end operations tomorrow, and their ToS would allow them to walk away with everyone's dough to date....

but if you were thinking that LL reserved that right to , say...sit around a hat and draw a few names each day to deactivate for no reason whatsoever...well...

it just ain't so.

That might spice up the LL break times.

But seriously, we got awhile to go before it ends, or changes into something we would not recognize today.

[/B]

Not once in this thread did I say anything negative about the Lindens.




Isn't a troll someone who does things like looking for all the posts by a specific person and then posting negative comments and insults in response? Or is that just a plain old run-of-the-mill griefer?




Not once in this thread did I "bitch about the Lindens".




If you're THAT unhappy with my posts, stop hunting them down and reading them.

Tell you what. I'll leave when I get to the point actually take time out of my life to hunt down posts by people I dislike or disagree with so I can post negative, inflammatory, and insulting replies.

It is interesting that Candie's original post is a legitimate question, based upon her experiences, and yet she is attacked left and right in this thread. As a lifetime account holder myself, I find it frightening that the account can be terminated not just for TOS violations, but at whim, after paying for the account. It is fully reasonable to ask what the legal contract is regarding a lifetime account. Whatever biases you may have against Candie, she is not in the wrong in asking this question.

Cristiano

No, I don't think they would just pull names out of a hat -- although it looks like they could. Any reason and no reason means just that. No reason is too hard for me to comprehend.

Any reason is more scary actually. It includes 'bad' reasons. Things like spite, harrassment, abuse, moments of insanity, warped senses of humor, practical jokes, blackmail.

Maybe I'll write a story about it. Would make a good Twilight Zone episode. God I miss that show.

Anyway, thank you to all those who took the time to reply with your helpful input & thoughts. I appreciate it.

Candie

Duh.

Read any good TOSes lately? Any that provide an ongoing service contain such a clause (unless their lawyer is aching for malpractice suits). It's the thing that keeps people from going to court saying "But they had no RIGHT to do that! I didn't do <X>!" It makes it unnecessary to prove that someone has broken the rules in a court of law, because every griefer with a bit of cash would sue <service> after getting banned if they could. That's how they get their kicks.

Yes, SL can terminate your account if they wake up on the wrong side of the bed. Welcome to Reality.

Would they, if they wanted to continue to attract customers? Probably not.

Wow, that post was so sarcastic it went all the way around the circle back to sincere.

It never ceases to amaze me how tenaciously some people will hold on to things that are supposed to be fun and relaxing, but for some reason aren't.

Whether the SL TOS gives you the creeps, the whim-whams or the heebie jeebies, you agreed to the terms. Now is a little late to complain about it. In fact, since it's so creepy, and the Lindens are such arbitrary and tyrannical ogres plotting to bend us over and screw us sideways, I'd keep my head down so they don't notice me.

You mean the way you keep reading my posts rather than put me on your ignore list.




Do that

Sideways! They always screw me upside down!

No, because this is fun. Anyway, why do you think I was talking about you specifically? (Insert "shoe fits" reference and Carly Simon lyrics here.)

It's like lining up and handing Philip wads of cash every month and praying you don't get an 'Access Denied' message from day to day. Why doesn't stuff like this make us nervous?

It makes me very nervous. It's why I don't do more in SL than I do now and why I bought a life account -- that sounds stupid because it is. I don't like my stuff being hosted on someone else's server. I don't like knowing that if I miss one payment, everything I've worked at could be deleted. Copyrights be damned, LL completely owns whatever we make in-world until they give us a way to export it.

Believe, I am very nervous about this fact.

Candie, hopefully, someday someone will create a kind of software that allows us to host sims on our own computers, build island groups with friends, and we'll not be bound by any petty dictator... Sorry, terms of service.

Now, where did I put my Torgue Engine?

But good luck getting anyone to realize this, aside from Maxx Monde and a few others. Your concern over your creation, investments (time, money, etc.), and interest in SL as a medium is just proof that you don't get SL. SL is a world! It's not a tool! (I don't take jabs at the Lindens, for the record, I kick for the crotch.)

Is there a difference between Lifetime and Basic membership?
I paid $9.95, do I get lifetime?

yes rhye you have a lifetime account. it will be functional as long as second life is operating and you, or the lindens, don't cancel it.

the difference is that the beta testers who suffered enourmous lag, teleporting errors, the steady introduction of new (buggy) features and a constant state of confusion were awarded 4096 square meters of free land allocation.

well free except for the $165-$225 price.

we don't suffer those horrible things anymore, so lifetime accounts cost $9.95 and come with no "free" land allocation.