Does LL Need To Do More re: inWorld Threats?

Banning and temporary suspensions are NOT the same thing. Folks who issue death threats should be permabanned after just ONE offense.

where is the system to decide what is a REAL death threat or not...

Again... I do not trust Linden labs to construct the correct context in their "investigation".

Buster is right... Already is the abuse report system used as a weapon... a weapon against creativity... because those are the only people truly effected... not griefers that can grief on any account any time... but established citizens that get inturrupted by however many day BAN that LL decided to give.

BAN BAN BAN BAN...

if it is for one day it is still a BAN!!!!! a BAN can be temporary... a BAN can be perminate...

It is silly to argue semantics... if that is all your argument has to stand on then you have no argument.

ZOMFG!

You STILL don't understand. A death threat is a crime. Period. It doesn't matter if you meant it as a joke. If the recipient of the threat THINKS it is serious the person who made it can be in REAL trouble. Folks have spent time in jail for making jokes about bombs at airports. The legal community takes these actions very seriously.

and you like that???

You like being censored???

You like being restricted???

You like PC nutjobs being able to take away your right to speech??? You know... I beleive one of America's founding fathers said something similar to, you do not diserve liberty if you are willing to trade it for security.

I, for one, DON'T accept that this is the best way.

I think that we have let things get way too far out of hand. To think that someone could get real pound-me-in-the-ass prison time for a joke? for something that was taken out of context??? Pathetic. just. pathetic.

It appears you think free speech should include the right to threaten someone's life with no consequences. I find that a rather, uhm...psychotic view of the entire subject.

Ok lets say for the sake of arguement that one sl player tells another that she will rl kill him. It is a valid threat. It is a serious threat.

How would he find out who this person is?

You don't know her.
You don't know where she lives.

LL has that information and they do not release it to anyone.

So how do you track down anyone in sl, none of us are who we appear to be. (well I'm realy and elf )

Sure there is some software available but seriously unless you have a rl name or some rl information you realy can't find that much out about anyone in sl.

Honestly we are nameless faces sitting behind our keyboards, and for the most part that makes us all feel a little more insultated than rl.

Now if anyone said they were a terriost and going to cause rl harm. That would go right to the FBI/CIA, you can count on that.

Cat

2 fallacies here. The obvious is the ad hominum attack.
The second is a wrong assumption. Death threats have never been allowed under US 1st amendment protection. It's one of the exceptions that includes faking an emergency, impersonating a person in power, fraud, slander, etc.


The founding fathers also responded with threats to their livilihood by taking up arms. When Redcoats threatened their lives, they didn't simply go, "Oh, well that's completely fine, because they're entitled to free speech". No, they grabbed their muskets and fought!


You're entitled to your opinion, now please stop belittling people who disagree.


Tell you what. Call up the FBI. Tell them you want to assasinate Bush. Then tell them you were just joking. See how fast you wind up with agents at your door.

Yashu can you even read?

How many time over how many threads does someone have to explain the same thing to you over and over again?



Get that? By LL own admission they have perma banned only twenty accounts in all the time SL has been open to the public so get the hell off your 'freedom' kick and get back to reality.

Bruno hits the nail right on the head,if you feel threats made to you here have a very real meaning and LL are doing nothing then you should contact the police.Internet crime is a reality.

Also Yashu where do you get the idea that just because you pay money for Second Life that Linden Labs would owe you an explanation if they banned you?They dont, this is their world,their business and what goes on within it and who they DO and DO NOT let in is 100% up to them - the very same dictatorship you rail against all the way through two threads.

A significant number of people have concerns about the lack of banning of accounts for repeating offenders - NOT the reason for those bans but the fact that people who commit the same infringements time and time and time again are allowed back into SL WITH THE SAME ACCOUNT to do the exact same thing - is that clear enough for you Yashu?

Well Yashu, this person came back as the same name and same account, and it's happened in the past as well. I'm not talking about someone being ultra-sneaky...I am talking about people, using the same account, or known alts, repeatedly getting back in world after wrist slappings, when they are committing serious breaks of the ToS.

I'm just asking for enforcement, and very strong enforcement for certain ToS violations.

As far as hate crimes, many folks have been allowed to come back in-world time and time again after being suspended for hate-crime activity.

I'm not saying they should be instantly perma-banned when accused of a hate crime or threats. But I am saying they should, if found guilty, be suspended for a time, and when allowed to come back in-world, they should be perma-banned if they are proven to have been repeating their behavior.

I'm not saying LL should be telepathic, or cruel dictators. But I am saying they should enforce their own ToS and do so in a way that will get a message across to those that want to make threats of death or RL harm, or want to act with hatred toward individuals or groups. That type of behavior should never be tolerated in SL. Freedom of speech is wonderful, but not if you are intentionally using it to hamper, or harm another individual, and not if that speech is threatening further, more physically harmful actions.

Well said David. I agree 100%!

ok just to be a pain in the ass hehehe I have to opt up one more scenario for everyone...

Obviously there are a lot of people who live in SL and it is a very real, tangible place for them to experience life and interaction with others. Also for some of us, we are pushing to create the Metaverse, which will provide jobs, income, and much more! However one person in this forum thread mentioned Role Play. This is not the first time I have heard it mentioned in SL, and in fact have met numerous individuals actually role-playing in-world. This is what I wish to touch on...

Though some of us may not see SL as a "game", there are and will always be people who do see it that way. I think those people will remain the majority until SL gains some ridiculously high level of global usage or credibility. In all online games there is "supposed" to be the separation of Character vs. Character role-play and Player vs. Player interaction. Here there is no cut and dry difference. Now most MMORPGs do not allow even the slightest bit of Player vs. Player argument because it becomes a huge problem very quickly. Most MMORPGs of that ilk also immediately dispatch those players with no opportunity to return as that character. However in a world such as ours there are two problems: number 1, there is no real way to tell when someone is role-playing and when someone is not due to the nature of our SL freedoms. All "games" have evil characters with evil intent and evil actions; easily as many as the good characters. Perhaps this has been the case in some of these scenarios?

Problem number 2 is mainly about those of us who don't "play" SL. I think we tend to get a little touchier about such things because we never think anyone is "playing". We are so engrossed in our own devices and vision of what SL should be that we tend to forget it is different for each individual. Now I am not trying to condone the behaviors you are discussing, but I am saying that it is impossible to get all of the facts needed for that level of policing.

I do believe there should be some type of clause in the TOS about RolePlay not being an acceptable excuse for violating global laws or American Federal laws. That is the only way I see that LL could even consider moving to the level being suggested. Additionally, this minor change would be the easiest way for LL to further enforce it's TOS. No one can talk their way out of anything. However if this is the case what about those of us who are indeed working here, not playing? I know I have had patrons of my creations threaten me openly just because they couldn't figure something out and figured it MUST be my fault. With time and patience I am able to work through most of these issues, but I have neg ratings and abuses reports proving that it's not always a success. What if they gather a mob together and everyone abuse reports my object? Suddenly I have been banned for doing absolutely nothing and have no recourse whatsoever. Another example: you have constant griefing, so you create an anti-griefing machine and it turns out that somehow your protection is a TOS violation but their griefing isn't. This is a double-edged sword that LL has danced on since SL was created. I don't think a TOS can be written that protects people from human nature. However if something like child porn is illegal in SL, just like RL, then that's where it all MUST stem from. More effort needs to be placed into making people understand that this is NOT a game, and illegal activities of any sort will be handled in the same fashion as RL. That's the only way to move towards a Metaverse mentality anyway

Consequently, I abstained from the poll because it is too complex of an issue to be asked in such a way. Frankly, I personally think all parties need to lighten up a bit. The griefers and the griefed. Let's make this an amazing place together. The more we fight, the less progress we make. A lot of griefing scenarios could be avoided if SLers had more to do than visit clubs and play Tringo. So let's make some content, make people aware of the content that exists, and I am certain you will be amazed at the reduction of grief that inherantly occurs.

I hope that made sense. If you wish to discuss, please post below. If you wish to flame, then I will laugh at your post and not respond

I voted yes and would like more information from Lindens.
It is not too much to ask for a consistent policy that is spelled out and is applied evenly across the board. If they were doing that this would not be an ongoing issue and one that if not dealt with will eventually bite the company.