Idol Linden or Beggar Linden?
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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03-29-2005 16:22
From: Gydeon Fox Just one problem. Early on, someone insulted him for even asking. Oh, there were no swear words and there wasn't any name-calling... but the statement was clearly a shot at the original poster. So the guy gets a little steamed and tells that person to take the ego somewhere else. Honestly, it was a nicer response than some of the ones I've seen on the forums.
This person asked peoples opinions. I stated my opinion, he attacked me personally. I feel it was unnecessary to post in public forums, grand standing, rude and tactless. I stated I would not do the same thing. It was my opinion. I did not insult the original posted. I outlined clearly what I would or would not do and the poster brought my suppsoed ego into the issue, which really had no place in the thread since I was posting my opinion as asked. If people don't want the opinions of others, they should ask for them. And as the old saying goes, "If you can't run with the big dogs, keep your ass on the porch".
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Korin Ingersoll
I R Teh Short!
Join date: 8 Dec 2004
Posts: 21
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03-29-2005 17:19
lol, I just give them stuff. but then I give a lot of people stuff  .
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Kade Keegan
Registered User
Join date: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 22
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03-29-2005 17:24
From: Eboni Khan This person asked peoples opinions. I stated my opinion, he attacked me personally. I feel it was unnecessary to post in public forums, grand standing, rude and tactless. I stated I would not do the same thing. It was my opinion. I did not insult the original posted. I outlined clearly what I would or would not do and the poster brought my suppsoed ego into the issue, which really had no place in the thread since I was posting my opinion as asked.
If people don't want the opinions of others, they should ask for them. And as the old saying goes, "If you can't run with the big dogs, keep your ass on the porch". So being rude and tactless is better than being self rigtheous and egotistical? It's less of an insult? You seem to see such a bold line between the two. You also pointed out that this topic would only lead to fighting, but for a good while the only bit of fighting going on was the words exchanged between me and you once you marched in with your judgements. What you said to me about posting here was not an answer to the question I asked. Although it may be your opinion, it had nothing to do with the original question. Your only purpose in it was to insult (me) and come out looking righteous (you hoped). I'm glad someone else spoke up and actually saw that for exactly what it was.
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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03-29-2005 17:49
I'm no Linden but I say YES to constructive discussion -- which this thread has mostly been about, with a nice smattering of positive humor. This is a controversial topic which elicits many points of view, and since this Forums is about exchanging ideas, that's what should be done. So -- as per the rules of the Forum, please keep the opinions flowing my fellow avatars, but leave the interpersonal snipes and negative drag-downs out of it. If you feel you must communicate in such a way, please take it to a more appropriate medium like private messages inworld. Plus, I HATE TO SEE MY FRIENDS FIGHT. Thank you graciously.  seven
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Khamon Fate
fategardens.net
Join date: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 4,177
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03-29-2005 21:36
thank you for the link. that's a cute article and a very good idea, however until we can export object data to a local disk in a standard 3d format, that a program such as maya can import, we don't own anything that we create inworld. the tos clearly states that ll doesn't guarantee correct storage of our inventories. even if you did, our accounts still belong to you and may be cancelled at any time "for no reason" effectively denying us access to our creations. invoking the spirit of creative commons makes a good press release; but it's not a practical truth for the residents of second life. oh darn, now his grace is gonna call me terse and cynical again.
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Kats Kothari
Disturbingly Cute
Join date: 14 Aug 2003
Posts: 556
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03-29-2005 21:40
From: Torley Torgeson If you feel you must communicate in such a way, please take it to a more appropriate medium like private messages inworld. Wouldn't a more appropriate medium be Nekkid Avatar Jello-Wrestling? 
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Maker of many kawaii items: Dolls, huggable plushies, and purses with cute critters. Visit Kats' Kreatures for a better look and feel free to explore! =^_^= Kats' Kreatures Gualala (140,9) "The cat is cryptic, and close to strange things which men cannot see..." - H.P. Lovecraft
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Devlin Gallant
Thought Police
Join date: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 5,948
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03-29-2005 23:54
From: Khamon Fate it's not self righteousness; it's that the lindens are steadily being bashed for being human people (assuming they're all human) that appreciate the abilities of given personalities, designers, debuggers, scripters et cetera. any time we let people know that a linden is involved in something, or favouring someone in any way, all hell breaks loose as people scream of nepotism and corruption of the true and stable fairness that is our utopian world of second life!
so we generally deal with lindens on the side and just don't say anything about it. it's what they expect because it's what they need from us. Assuming they are all human? I have it on good authority that Pathfinder Linden is part aardvark. That is why he keeps his face covered. 
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I LIKE children, I've just never been able to finish a whole one.
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Devlin Gallant
Thought Police
Join date: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 5,948
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03-30-2005 00:04
From: Prokofy Neva Um, there's a simple thing you do here. You direct the Linden to your store where they may purchase your object for the price set on it for the market and the general public. This isn't Animal Crossing where we're selling to Tom Nook, and not the Middle Ages where the craftsmen society barters and trades. This is the modern world where prices are the lynchpin to bring a willing buyer and a willing seller together rapidly and successfully. If someone would prefer to play haggling bazaar, a more conservative and ancient tradition, where my personal connections and my relationship to your wife's brother play a role in that price transaction, then play bazaar. Let the Linden, with his godlike custodial monkey-wrench powers, pay a higher or lower price depending on how you view him. I find that an obstacle to the game's modern free economy, but hey, it's your game on your lot.
I got an Easter teddy bear from a Linden. Imagine! I heard a tenant talk about it, and IM'd that Linden just to see if it worked for any of the common folk. I got the bear merely because they were left, I think, not because that Linden thought I might scream on the forums (I might have). Now I'm mulling it over, and I think I'd like to pay that Linden for that bear. So I will pay her $50 which is about what it is worth. She's going to return that $50 to me saying that she can't accept financial gifts and her huggy bear is just a huggy bear *hugz*. But I will tell her that if her company can make thousands from the ebay sponsored links, she oughta make a little on the side from her hugzy bear. BAH! I am FIC, and I couldn't get an Easter teddy. Damn Fetid Outer Uncore!
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I LIKE children, I've just never been able to finish a whole one.
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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03-30-2005 01:38
From: Pathfinder Linden First of all, please don't start any personal attacks in this thread. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, so please simply agree to disagree. OK, as a Linden myself, I have had residents give me products for free to test out or experiment with. I have also purchased things myself from residents. Linden accounts are not allowed to run businesses or participate in contests where we could receive goods or money as prizes. We all have a little "spending money" provided to us, but that's the only source of income on our Linden accounts. Which means we might not always have enough $L to spend on items we might want to purchase. Yes, we have "god powers," but we don't use them to "take" whatever we want from residents in SL. So, I guess I'm trying to say...if a Linden asks for something for free, it means we are genuinely interested in the item and most likely simply don't have the $L to buy it from you.  Give them Lindens a L$ raise! yeah you can have what ever im making im also flattered when you ask 
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Surina Skallagrimson
Queen of Amazon Nations
Join date: 19 Jun 2003
Posts: 941
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03-30-2005 04:01
From: Torley Torgeson
So -- as per the rules of the Forum, please keep the opinions flowing my fellow avatars, but leave the interpersonal snipes and negative drag-downs out of it. If you feel you must communicate in such a way, please take it to a more appropriate medium like private messages inworld.
Isn't that cut/paste paragraph #56 from the Linden book of forum moderating, (issue 3, revised)? Carefull Torley, you're exposing your Linden alt status... 
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-------------------------------------------------------- Surina Skallagrimson Queen of Amazon Nation Rizal Sports Mentor
-------------------------------------------------------- Philip Linden: "we are not in the game business." Adam Savage: "I reject your reality and substitue my own."
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Kage Seraph
I Dig Giant Mecha
Join date: 3 Nov 2004
Posts: 513
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03-30-2005 10:11
From: Khamon Fate thank you for the link. that's a cute article and a very good idea, however
until we can export object data to a local disk in a standard 3d format, that a program such as maya can import, we don't own anything that we create inworld. the tos clearly states that ll doesn't guarantee correct storage of our inventories. even if you did, our accounts still belong to you and may be cancelled at any time "for no reason" effectively denying us access to our creations.
invoking the spirit of creative commons makes a good press release; but it's not a practical truth for the residents of second life.
I think this is right on, but it probably belongs in a fresh thread to exhort the Lindens to let us export our hard work.
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Pathfinder Linden
Administrator
Join date: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 507
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03-30-2005 11:11
From: Khamon Fate invoking the spirit of creative commons makes a good press release; but it's not a practical truth for the residents of second life.
Here is a very practical truth: http://secondlife.com/newsletter/Residents retain all the intellectual property rights of whatever they create in Second Life.
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Pathfinder Linden
Administrator
Join date: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 507
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03-30-2005 11:14
From: Khamon Fate until we can export object data to a local disk in a standard 3d format, that a program such as maya can import, we don't own anything that we create inworld. the tos clearly states that ll doesn't guarantee correct storage of our inventories. even if you did, our accounts still belong to you and may be cancelled at any time "for no reason" effectively denying us access to our creations.
That's a good point, regarding the export of data. I don't have an immediate answer about the issue of exporting data into standard 3d formats (I don't know if something like that is under development), but I'll ask other Lindens about it and let you all know what I find.
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Michi Lumin
Sharp and Pointy
Join date: 14 Oct 2003
Posts: 1,793
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03-30-2005 11:24
From: Kage Seraph I think this is right on, but it probably belongs in a fresh thread to exhort the Lindens to let us export our hard work. I tried this a while back. Strangely enough, back then, the sentiment was that we 'didnt need this', and that LL's system could be trusted to retain all of our content. That was, of course, before any incidences of data loss. I believe there are other reasons, political, for LL to not allow data export. I don't think we'll see it any time soon. However, a modeling program that would use SL's primitive paramaters would be a help for both design and in-out of world transitions.
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Nekokami Dragonfly
猫神
Join date: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 638
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03-30-2005 13:48
From: Pathfinder Linden Fire is currently undergoing beta testing. Along with "phlogiston" (my own personal project).
Thank you for your interest. We'll keep you posted. But will it be fire that can be nasally fitted?*  I'd give any Linden any of my stuff for free, happy to be noticed. Actually, I'm considering dropping all my prices to practically free anyway. I just need to get time to go around and update the vendors. The stuff I'm selling at the moment is stuff I made for fun, mostly clothes for a Chinese New Year party I was hosting. I was encouraged to put the clothes on sale, but they haven't been moving that fast, so what the heck, I don't really care if I make money at it, I'd just like to see more variety in what people are wearing. My designs are hardly on a par with what Chip Midnight or the other big designers make, anyway. I think people who want really high quality will pay for it. I very much doubt any of us giving things away is going to make that much of a difference in the overall SL economy. neko *Hopefully everyone gets this....
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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03-30-2005 15:38
From: Michi Lumin I tried this a while back. Strangely enough, back then, the sentiment was that we 'didnt need this', and that LL's system could be trusted to retain all of our content. That was, of course, before any incidences of data loss.
I believe there are other reasons, political, for LL to not allow data export. I don't think we'll see it any time soon.
However, a modeling program that would use SL's primitive paramaters would be a help for both design and in-out of world transitions. I had the opportunity to talk to Philip Linden about this a couple months ago. He said that exported storage was something they were looking into, but a problem that was holding it back was Permissions. Specifically, keeping people from exporting someone else's items and importing them back with full perms, and with their name as Creator. I wouldn't be too surprised to see this implemented at some point in the not-too-distant future, provided that it's granted some attention and priority.
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Little Rebel Designs Gallinas
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Nekokami Dragonfly
猫神
Join date: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 638
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03-30-2005 17:59
From: Michi Lumin I believe there are other reasons, political, for LL to not allow data export. I don't think we'll see it any time soon. It occurs to me that Jeff's "prim mirror" scripts could be modified to do this by sending an email (or more probably, multiple emails) out with the data needed to reconstruct the object in XML form. The emails would include the scripts, but I don't think they could include the texture data, except as an asset id. Then the content of the emails could be mailed back to a receiver, which could rez the object. Having done that, someone could write a utility to receive the emails and convert them to more commonly used formats, supported by external 3d programs, and take the more commonly used formats and convert them back to the common format and email them back into the SL receiver, so long as only certain restricted shapes were used to build objects (anything other than supported shapes would have to be converted into expensive prim meshes). Not that I know how to do any of this, mind, but it seems it should be possible in principle. And it would open up a huge can of worms regarding creator's rights of ownership, unless the hole is plugged so that nomod objects can't have new scripts dropped into them, and even then I'm not sure that would be enough security (I don't know enough about what information scripts are able to obtain about objects they don't reside in). neko
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