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Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
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12-22-2004 08:50
If you look at the whole colonization thing, the US are by far the most successful colony ever. Canada and Australia are also pretty modern and developed countries.
If you look at all the portuguese and spanish colonies, however... they make up most of the third world. Is it the climate? The "protestant work ethic"? Should we have killed all the native africans and south americans instead of merely enslaving them?  _____________________
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Madiera Westerburg
waiting for apocolypse :D
Join date: 6 Apr 2004
Posts: 836
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12-22-2004 09:06
its our motto eggy....
"badges? badges? we dont need no stinkin' badges!" _____________________
"Unfortunately you cant wipe them out of existence... merely hide the drivel they have to spew"- Kris Ritter
If the lord was handing out bacterial infections for sinning, you'd be at the free clinic all the time. just when I manage to convince myself I'm a superior being, I walk into a door |
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Korg Stygian
Curmudgeon Extraordinaire
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,105
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12-22-2004 09:09
Should we have killed all the native africans and south americans instead of merely enslaving them? You know, "we" didn' enslave "all the native africans" or anyone else. If you check your history books, slavery has existed for eons across the globe, both totally within and across cultures. That is, in some cultures, slavery of one's own ethnicity was allowed in some cultures while enslavement of outsiders was not allowed ---- in other cultures, enslavement of outsiders was allowed, but of those within one's own culture was not. So, who is this "We" you speak of? I know I haven't owned slaves for at least two past lifetimes. |
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Madiera Westerburg
waiting for apocolypse :D
Join date: 6 Apr 2004
Posts: 836
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12-22-2004 09:12
ive enslaved myself....does that count? im in the process of working on freein myself..but its takin awhile
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"Unfortunately you cant wipe them out of existence... merely hide the drivel they have to spew"- Kris Ritter
If the lord was handing out bacterial infections for sinning, you'd be at the free clinic all the time. just when I manage to convince myself I'm a superior being, I walk into a door |
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Ryen Jade
This is a takeover!
Join date: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,329
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12-22-2004 09:12
You know, "we" didn' enslave "all the native africans" or anyone else. If you check your history books, slavery has existed for eons across the globe, both totally within and across cultures. That is, in some cultures, slavery of one's own ethnicity was allowed in some cultures while enslavement of outsiders was not allowed ---- in other cultures, enslavement of outsiders was allowed, but of those within one's own culture was not. So, who is this "We" you speak of? I know I haven't owned slaves for at least two past lifetimes. AWSOME POST! _____________________
Between you, Ryen the twerp and Ardith, there's little to change my opinion here.. rather you have reinforced it each in your own ways IM A TWERP, IM A TWERP!  Whats a twerp?  |
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Madiera Westerburg
waiting for apocolypse :D
Join date: 6 Apr 2004
Posts: 836
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12-22-2004 09:14
you arent allowed to speak without permission remember?
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"Unfortunately you cant wipe them out of existence... merely hide the drivel they have to spew"- Kris Ritter
If the lord was handing out bacterial infections for sinning, you'd be at the free clinic all the time. just when I manage to convince myself I'm a superior being, I walk into a door |
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Pituca FairChang
Married to Garth
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 2,679
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12-22-2004 09:47
I always wondered why the Latin American countries were so different than the US and Canada. I lived in Mexico a number of years and took some Humanity courses at the Ibero in Puebla (A Jesuit run University).
One course was on the colonization of the Americas, and yes kiddies it was only from Mexico and south. Colonization of the US was only addressed because I was a member of the class and asked. What was explained (and retained by my feeble brain) is that the colonization of the US was made by FAMILIES seeking a better life, and in Mexico and certain South American countries it was conquerers or "Conquistadores". The Spaniard who came over very often was looking to be an Hidalgo (Hijo de alguien or 'son of someone'), he was not the eldest son and did not stand to inherit. So he looked to the new world for land and gold. The Spaniard wanted an Hacienda and people to work the land, so he didn't kill them off. Too, the indigenous population in Mexico was much larger than the one in what is now the US. The people who came to colonize the US generally speaking were just looking for freedom and the proverbial 40 acres and a mule! There is no doubt in my mind that the Americas as we know them (both North and South) have been greatly impacted by the laws of primogeniture that existed in the European countries. I know all of this is an oversimplification. But my notes are long gone with the moves. And I have never been a great essay writer anyhoo. _____________________
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Tito Gomez
Mi Vida Loca
Join date: 1 Aug 2004
Posts: 921
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12-22-2004 10:04
If you look at the whole colonization thing, the US are by far the most successful colony ever. Canada and Australia are also pretty modern and developed countries. Whatever the Brits did, they did right. Everything Pituca stated is right on the money. In addition: The Spanish and Portuguese had two basic goals in mind: - The Christianization of the native peoples - Taking everything of value they could get their hands on back to Europe We might also want to consider the economic standing of Spain and Portugal in comparison to the rest of Western Europe throughout history. It may be a fair assumption to say Latin America did not get the best economics teachers. So yes, basically, the USA got colonized, the rest of Latin America got conquered. - T - _____________________
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Icon Serpentine
punk in drublic
Join date: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 858
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12-22-2004 10:45
If you look at the whole colonization thing, the US are by far the most successful colony ever. Canada and Australia are also pretty modern and developed countries. If you look at all the portuguese and spanish colonies, however... they make up most of the third world. Is it the climate? The "protestant work ethic"? Should we have killed all the native africans and south americans instead of merely enslaving them? Canada and Australia are pretty modern too?? lol You give the US a little too much credit. _____________________
If you are awesome!
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Cyanide Leviathan
Xtreme Loser Squad
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 408
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12-22-2004 10:56
You know, "we" didn' enslave "all the native africans" or anyone else. If you check your history books, slavery has existed for eons across the globe, both totally within and across cultures. That is, in some cultures, slavery of one's own ethnicity was allowed in some cultures while enslavement of outsiders was not allowed ---- in other cultures, enslavement of outsiders was allowed, but of those within one's own culture was not. So, who is this "We" you speak of? I know I haven't owned slaves for at least two past lifetimes. He meant the colonies that Europe set up. We didnt enslave the Native Americans, we killed most of them off. African colonys however they just enslaved the local populace for the most part. He isnt blaming anyone for slavery, please read more carefully. |
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Madiera Westerburg
waiting for apocolypse :D
Join date: 6 Apr 2004
Posts: 836
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12-22-2004 10:56
Canada and Australia are pretty modern too?? lol You give the US a little too much credit. hes right you know, where i live everyone is pretty much twenty years behind...<sighs> why cant we have funky fashions like japan? _____________________
"Unfortunately you cant wipe them out of existence... merely hide the drivel they have to spew"- Kris Ritter
If the lord was handing out bacterial infections for sinning, you'd be at the free clinic all the time. just when I manage to convince myself I'm a superior being, I walk into a door |
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Korg Stygian
Curmudgeon Extraordinaire
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,105
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12-22-2004 10:57
Canada and Australia are pretty modern too?? lol You give the US a little too much credit. Let's see.. if I remember correctly, Australia was "colonized" by shipping off prisoners and malcontents to that island. Not necessarily a "thing done right" considering this could be interpreted as the ultimate in political snobbishness - "You ain't good enuf for us, go elsewhere, but be beholden to us and maintain your fealty despite being outcast." As for Canada.... yeah. Colonized and essentially abandoned by both the Brits and the Frogs once it was concluded that exploitation of the resources was not worth the costs involved. Still, the Brits only recently seriously considered the Canucks as "sovereign" as far I can tell in terms of rhetoric. IMHO, Canada and Australia have succeeded in spite of their "mother nations", not because of them. |
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Cyanide Leviathan
Xtreme Loser Squad
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 408
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12-22-2004 10:57
Or maybe you are just 20 years ahead of everyone?
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Madiera Westerburg
waiting for apocolypse :D
Join date: 6 Apr 2004
Posts: 836
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12-22-2004 11:06
who knows cy....i think im ahead of everyone in THIS area....but compared to other parts of the country that aint sayin much
im at least ahead of myself ten minutes ago.... _____________________
"Unfortunately you cant wipe them out of existence... merely hide the drivel they have to spew"- Kris Ritter
If the lord was handing out bacterial infections for sinning, you'd be at the free clinic all the time. just when I manage to convince myself I'm a superior being, I walk into a door |
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Cyanide Leviathan
Xtreme Loser Squad
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 408
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12-22-2004 11:09
I hope you are not talking about Connecticut, since we are in such close proximity
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Madiera Westerburg
waiting for apocolypse :D
Join date: 6 Apr 2004
Posts: 836
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12-22-2004 11:11
nah connecticut sucks too lol i have been there i know <laughs>
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"Unfortunately you cant wipe them out of existence... merely hide the drivel they have to spew"- Kris Ritter
If the lord was handing out bacterial infections for sinning, you'd be at the free clinic all the time. just when I manage to convince myself I'm a superior being, I walk into a door |
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Madiera Westerburg
waiting for apocolypse :D
Join date: 6 Apr 2004
Posts: 836
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12-22-2004 11:14
i got an idea cy...lets find a private island and be ahead of EVERYONE.....you know what really cracks me up? the mnovies like i, robot....that show i dunno opening scene in whatever city it is with a date like '2035'....how the heck are they thinkin its gonna be like that in 30 years? it would take some MASSIVE work to make the world look like that in thirty years...maybe 70 years wouldve been more realistic?
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"Unfortunately you cant wipe them out of existence... merely hide the drivel they have to spew"- Kris Ritter
If the lord was handing out bacterial infections for sinning, you'd be at the free clinic all the time. just when I manage to convince myself I'm a superior being, I walk into a door |
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Cyanide Leviathan
Xtreme Loser Squad
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 408
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12-22-2004 11:17
 Yeah, connecticut sucks. And that does confuse me, I was thinking that in the movie Minority Report. |
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Madiera Westerburg
waiting for apocolypse :D
Join date: 6 Apr 2004
Posts: 836
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12-22-2004 11:17
maybe hollywood knows something we DONT? <shudders>
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"Unfortunately you cant wipe them out of existence... merely hide the drivel they have to spew"- Kris Ritter
If the lord was handing out bacterial infections for sinning, you'd be at the free clinic all the time. just when I manage to convince myself I'm a superior being, I walk into a door |
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Isis Becquerel
Ferine Strumpet
Join date: 1 Sep 2004
Posts: 971
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12-22-2004 11:20
Let's see.. if I remember correctly, Australia was "colonized" by shipping off prisoners and malcontents to that island. Not necessarily a "thing done right" considering this could be interpreted as the ultimate in political snobbishness - "You ain't good enuf for us, go elsewhere, but be beholden to us and maintain your fealty despite being outcast." As for Canada.... yeah. Colonized and essentially abandoned by both the Brits and the Frogs once it was concluded that exploitation of the resources was not worth the costs involved. Still, the Brits only recently seriously considered the Canucks as "sovereign" as far I can tell in terms of rhetoric. IMHO, Canada and Australia have succeeded in spite of their "mother nations", not because of them. Wasn't Georgia a prison colony as well? I believe it was Oglethorpe. If I remember correctly many of the first Americans were either prisoners, convicts, indentured servants or bonded laborers sent by their lords to set up the colonies under the assumption that their debt to society would be paid and they would recieve a bit of land upon release. I may have to check for some sources though. _____________________
One of the most fashionable notions of our times is that social problems like poverty and oppression breed wars. Most wars, however, are started by well-fed people with time on their hands to dream up half-baked ideologies or grandiose ambitions, and to nurse real or imagined grievances.
Thomas Sowell As long as the bottle of wine costs more than 50 bucks, I'm not an alcoholic...even if I did drink 3 of them. |
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Madiera Westerburg
waiting for apocolypse :D
Join date: 6 Apr 2004
Posts: 836
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12-22-2004 11:21
you know cy....its not all THAT bad....you got me in a neighboring state...
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"Unfortunately you cant wipe them out of existence... merely hide the drivel they have to spew"- Kris Ritter
If the lord was handing out bacterial infections for sinning, you'd be at the free clinic all the time. just when I manage to convince myself I'm a superior being, I walk into a door |
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Azelda Garcia
Azelda Garcia
Join date: 3 Nov 2003
Posts: 819
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12-22-2004 11:25
A lot of things just run in cycles; it doesnt necessarily mean one country is better than another. Partly the cycles are because the country changes with time, for better or worse; partly the cycles are just a natural thing, like Business Cycles.
Still, I do kindof like considering that the UK made the best colonies Azelda _____________________
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Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
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12-22-2004 11:50
Korg, FWIW, I meant "we" as in the portuguese and spanish.
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Devlin Gallant
Thought Police
Join date: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 5,948
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12-22-2004 12:34
Uhm, weren't the Portugeuse the primary slave traders during the 1600-1800's?
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I LIKE children, I've just never been able to finish a whole one.
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Camille Serpentine
Eater of the Dead
Join date: 6 Oct 2003
Posts: 1,236
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12-22-2004 12:45
Yeah, connecticut sucks. And that does confuse me, I was thinking that in the movie Minority Report.I like Connecticut. |
