So I guess it takes public embarassment.

Nee maybe he is right...you shouldn't be in the forums. That was just plain scary.

The "funny" thing about this sort of discussion is that so many politicians run on the "so n so is for <insert bad thing everyone is against here>" platform. Now everyone on the right is saying Kerry was for death in the army because he didn't vote for the bigillion bill. Honestly though I don't really know if I can say with a straight face that Bush is for military personnel dying as a direct result of under-armored vehicles either. But I can say that he is for a spend high/tax low government which in war times is a bit scary. And I can say that the lack of forethought is a direct result of the fact that the US government had no idea how sticky this would get. Anyhow, I am for more armored vehicles so up production already damnit give some folks a few jobs and lets get on with this macabre business.

Uh.. sorry. only one of me to a world-- scratch that.. to a universe.... God said so.

Uh. brrrp. Yeah.. right.. the government should jsut "up production"... riiiiiiiihgt. There are no other priorities... none.. nada.. zip...
"macabre business"??? There is NOTHING that is quite like the awesome smell of napalm in the morning, thank you very much.

Never said there were not other priorities "darling" just that maybe this should possibly be one of the many bits and bobs that the govco should think about before they go around blowin' up those who can blow their military up as well. And yes we have all seen the movie so thank you very much too .

Ohh and I'll call your brrrp and raise you a frrt.

I wouldn't let you carry my ruck.. but you can smell my fart...

Remember,, the view for all sled dogs but the lead is always the same.... and you ain't lead dog by a long shot.

That one went straight to the nether regions Korg. I suppose you are superior seeing as how you know all and see all.... By damned Korg you are God. Hmmm...You know what most of the men I have met who use your line of BS to attain clout are not worth the shit I stepped in mowing the lawn. So please forgive me if I do not humble myself under the shadow of your enormous and all too presumptuous brain...Some of us have better things to do than submit ourselves to your verbose torture. I for one do not right now and seeing as how I have an entire bottle of wine go for it. You can discount all thoughts not spawning from your angry little noggin all you want but in the end you are the one left behind looking at my bung hole.
Why? Ahh I never thought you would ask. Because I know that I am not omniscient and omnipresent, I know that I do not know it all. This is something that you will likely learn the minute before you kick the kettle so in that I am far more advanced love. Many of the most insightful and glaringly brilliant ideas I have heard have come from mere babes unaware of your personal logic and intellectual fortitude. I prefer their naive observations over your base and rude commentary. So shoot me and I will call your frrt smell and raise you a wiff of my shoe.

The idea behind the Humvee is that it is fast and maneuverable over all terrain, thus they were not meant to be armoured in the first place. Doctrine has been that tanks, helicopters and Bradley armoured troop carriers would be entering and patrolling more dangerous areas.

That is all well and good, however that is not the position currently. Troops are reinforcing their vehicles with sandbags and plywood. This was a story a long time ago and is nothing new.

The administration then says it is a production/supply issue. Then when pushed publically they are going to uparmor more vehicles.

So I have a really hard time accepting that it is merely an issue of vehicle function. If that were the case then why is that not simply being said? Why the change in position? Why have troops been allowed to compromise the speed and maneuverability of their vehicles?


This isn't about the government just upping production. The companies that manufacture the vehicles and the armor are able to increase their production as they aren't currently working at capacity.

When their heels are held to the fire someone seems to be able to get the orders out to do the needful. Thus my original question. Is that what it takes?

I've traveled many places where Americans and I specifically am not very popular. Never have I had an escort that provided me with less than exemplary protection. If I can get it, there is no reason that it shouldn't be available to those working everyday in harms way.

If anyone has links to information to the amount of reduced speed and maneuverability of Humvees based on weight I would love to read them. In the interim I will see what I can dig up.

LOL Korg. It's wonderful to have such a shining example of what is wrong with our country. It's people just like you. Judgemental, narrow-minded, contridictory, tunnel-visioned, rude, arrogant and above all, insecure and self-pitying.

Some of your great lines:

"I shed blood for the country", or words to that effect. Jeez..ever hear of dignity and honor? Seems like you want us all to bow down to your ability to follow orders and pull a trigger. Veterans deserve respect for serving our country when called upon, but that doesn't give them a free reign to be idiotic, insulting, arrogant or just plain assholes.

"I couldn't care less what you think", which usually follows or preceeds you showing plainly that you do indeed care very much. Overly much some might say.

Also, you calling others partisan when you are about the most partisan person I've ever had the displeasure to read posts from. You hold to your narrow, stubborn, and often illogical and misinformed views no matter what the actual evidence shows, and without the will or desire to actually find out the truth before spouting how others are always wrong.

You vomit your opinion in such a crass and rude manner, and so arrogantly, dismissing all others, that I can't help but think you are a scared, insecure, bitter and entirely self-loathing person, and can't help but pity you.

But here, another very easy to understand line for you to dismiss:

OUr government is incredibly corrupt and full of lies. They have been caught in so many already. Its easy to find the information. Most of it is a matter of public records. Our troops are dying, as well as many Iraqi citizens, merely to make money for the administrations top contributors, friends and business contacts. Protecting our troops should be the number one priority in any combat situation, as much as possibly, without taking away thier abilities to do thier sworn duty. Easy ain't it.

And it's very easy to learn these facts. They are all over the place. The lies, business ties, dirty dealings, real reason for invading Iraq.

And I know, you don't give a rats ass, you don't care what i think, etc, etc, etc, etc...

Thanks for being you and helping us hippy, tree-hugging, anit-american, terrorist loving liberals seem so much better and wiser than hate-filled messes like you.

Have a great day

I came across this article last night along with a few others. It still didn't touch on the overall impact of 2000# on the vehicle. Now just brainstorming I could come up with the following.

1. Reduced fuel efficieny. While the cost of fuel wouldn't be an issue, the downtime associated with more frequents stops for refueling may be.

2. Reduced clearance. Increased weight may have an impact on vehicle clearance.

3. Wear and tear. Heavier vehicles are less efficient. For example tires. A heavier vehicle is more likely to be incapacitated due to wear on tires and will need more frequent, and perhaps inopportune, downtime. In addition, crews designated to care for these vehicles would need to be increased or work more.

I'm sure there are more. I am looking for as much information as possible that would draw some conclusions to the benefits and lack of benefits associated with uparmored vehicles.

Well, I_Need_to_Make_Noise/Trouble_Somehow Neehai...

You finally have pinpointed your problem. You have a hard time accepting things that are not as you believe they should be. Time to come back to reality. You don't have to like or appreciate my style.. or even my arguments. But reality does beckon and when you realize there is not a damn thing you can do to change it, you won't be posting this kind of "whoa is me" type of crap.

What is really the point of this thread? What can you possibly hope to accomplish? I can't imagine you would be attempting to actually discuss anything - hence my own choice in response style. I thought, at one time, you actually might have a goal of discussion.. I gave up on that misconception of mine long ago. You seem to only want to whine, cry, bullshit and wage a personal war of rhetorical ideology aimed at slamming the current administration. Nothing anyone else says has any bearing on your arguments or your perspective.

Guess what... you could aim that comment I just made at me and it would be true also... at times. However, THIS THREAD is particularly pointless as far as real discussion goes.

So I repeat something I said earlier... get a life.

blah blah blah, sparky, blah, blah blah

Everytime you say this...

An arrogant troll gets its wings!

Korg is just mad because I am "pretty insensitive" about his personal life. Which is kind of funny, because pretty insensitive is a generous characterization.

Actually Neehai.. I could care less about what you think. here or irl.
I do feel bad for the people who actually try to discuss anything with someone like you who cannot see past their own ideology.. and I have repeatedly pointed out your "blinders on" prejudice/bias. At first, I did so without reallizing you can't step outside your won perspective and wanted a real discussion. Later I realized you just want to vent. So 99% of my posts with relation to you are to make fun of you and your ilk. Enjoy.

AWWWW.. Korgy, play nice with Neehai's ilk.

You mean with you?.. ilk this...

You are so right. I am ashamed of myself.

I have no right pointing out the facts. I am ashamed...and I never fought in a war.

I'm just hanging around to be called a Nazi! Wait for it...

See Korgy, when you make it a hobby to use tired and obfuscatory rhetoric as a foundation to lay down tired and obfuscated ideologies to gross insults (like comparing people to your retarded nephew or marginalizing the entire jewish population by juxtaposing forum drama with Nazi ideals), we just come back to the original title of this thread...

Something to do with public embarrassment?

Translator? Anyone got a translator? I need gobbledygook translation please?!?!?!

Or, failing that.. just be embarrassed you felt the need to reply... you should be that way you know.. I said I was making fun of Neehai and its ilk and you have to retort? I'll repeat myself because you do seem to not have understood it.. you are "ilk"... so ilk this!

No, I got it. I am proud to be of Neehai's ilk. But your reply did have a very "derr duhnnn derrr" quality to it that I rather enjoyed!