Changes to Event Support

BEEN THERE
TRIED IT
WATCHED IT CRASH AND BURN

Serious.. we watched ThereInc try this!! HONEST! They used to support events and hosts. Not just the bonuses received for people being at the event, but in the background their staff would give Therebucks (their inworld money) to people to fund the events... for prizes, promos, hire hosts, etc. Then, one day they decided that they would no longer do this.. that it was time for us to charge people who attend.. to find sponsors among the membership.. They held meetings and such to preach to us about how it NEEDED to be done. Nothing we said mattered. So, they went through with their plans and closed the event support on us.

What happened? We lost a LOT of quality events. The very, very rare individual that is either "rich" ingame or willing to purchase Therebucks out of their own pocket or is willing to go around begging for support from the Designers are still able to host occassionally. Other than that, most of the events we see now are "come to my yard sale". We went from 20 pages of events per night to 4 pages of nothing events.

This move did NOT stop just the people playing the hosting $$ game. It brought an end to a LOT of fun. And, it ended up with a LOT of loyal members looking elsewhere for the entertainment we could no longer find there.

Now, I agree the crap events here shouldn't be funded. But, there are a lot that really should be... the quality bingo and tringo games, primtionary, etc.. These hosts well... HOST. I'm sure most would agree. There are some GOOD events out there. I feel there needs to be an overhaul of the event sponsorship program.. but this "fix" is NOT it. I tried to tell ThereInc this and they didn't listen.... *sigh* Here we go again.

To be blunt, I am in SL for entertainment. Entertainment for me means events. I am not a designer. I am not a builder. I will NOT beg for people to sponsor my events. I will simply not host any. And, well.. when the entertainment ends.. so does my time in SL. I will simply find entertainment elsewhere.

SL is not There
SL relies on user created content.
SL is not There.
Events aren't going away, just monetary support.
SL is not There.
Qualilty events definately won't need to leave, cause the only ones affected are those who hold events merely to gain personally.
SL is not There.

Interesting to see how many new faces are on the forums and chanting "This is what There did!"

For some SL is a form of entertainment so is There
For some SL is a form of socializing so is There
Clothes are sold in SL for RL$ threw the GOM clothes are sold in There for RL$

SL may not be There but yes I can see the simularities. Look at the changes made just before it crashed and burned. Now look at what LL is doing. Yes simular, I agree with Anjelle.

Ummmm asking for clarification of your position is NOT flaming.

Jeez.

*Lo actually does not know why she bothered to post this*

Hiro, could you clarify for me what you mean by your second sentence here? I'm not sure I understand what you are saying and I'm curious to your reasoning.

Scripters get ready to make money, new product in demand; "Covercharge Scripts!"

Huge, huge, huge, all over the place rant coming up. If you wade through it, kudos, if you don't, I understand completely.

Let me first explain that this whole issue is important to me. First and foremost, because I would like you to take it easy on me in case I get flamed--hopefully if you know this is personal you won't be too abrasive. Second, in explaining why this is important to me, it's a nice setup for showing that, IN FACT, these changes will certainly cause problems for many people who exist in SL. I am not consistently in SL the way I was when I first joined, but every couple of months or so I like to barrage the Event Calendar with a series of Mentor events and regular events. I do a LOT of educational events, and the ones I have the best turnouts for have been my economy-oriented ones.

That being said...

I have always had a standard list of six ways people can legitimately make money in Second Life strictly by using the game's system. New players love it. Here's what I've listed:

1. buy/sell products/services 2. host events 3. attend events 4. refer friends 5. stipend 6. dwell

These points have worked out so well! If you cannot sell products/services, you may instead make a great host. Or, you may make a great host attendee. What a perfect way for the average social player to make some money? It's not like the 500-1000 TOPS you can make as an event host each day comes anywhere near the amount you could make with a vendor. But instead, you know that you have added content to the game--which to many people is incredibly important, isn't it? And to event attendees... how many of you know people who login and only attend events? How much do first place winners make at the average event--350, tops? For a half an hour to an hour's time? Why is it not considered an intellegent 'keep,' to keep events around so players feel there is an incentive to take part in the 'gaming' aspect of Second Life? ...or have we really gotten to the point where the only acceptable competition in Second Life is in the retail business..?

So, we refer friends to make money (this was nerfed a while ago,) we have our weekly stipends (nerfed just now,) and our dwell is our last way to make money legitimately (also nerfed--dwell is going to be either a lot more blatant right now, or entirely nonexistant for the average player; after all, how many huge gatherings do you know about in Second Life that are not event oriented? Oh wait, I suppose we have clubs...)

Let's face it. Content-out. Consumerism-in. Now if I ever decide to host my "educational events," I won't lie to the attendees. I've always been as brutally honest as possible. So, here's the truth. "You want to make money hosting events, become a Mentor or an Instructor."

Joy! We have turned the first volunteer service of Second Life into an organization close enough to LL to be able to reap the benefits of Event Support. There have already been players in the Mentor group who have joined solely for the Event Support (won't be naming any names here,) now, it's like the one perk to hosting Mentor and Instructor events is going to seem a lot tastier to people who know they are good on-stage. The next Linden who takes on the Mentor group (as I understand it, Char is heading off for TeenSL--everyone remember that? It was brought up about the week before SL crashed for 3 days,) is going to have a lot of work on their hands, sorting through the mix.

So. Social players can no longer make money except for the minimal amount they recieve from Stipend along with whatever they can compete for at Mentor events.

Argue all you want that GOM "fixes" this problem. Sure, so those one-time 9.95 players now have to fork out more US$ just to buy things in Second Life? Senseless. SL's entertainment industry, minus the Dwellnor Club Incentive, has crashed.

"Welcome to Money 101, my name is Daemioth Sklar ... you can make money four ways. 1. selling products/services 2. refer friends 3. stipend 4. dwell . Can't use Photoshop? That's fine, you still have 2, 3, and 4. Referring friends not so easy? That's okay, you have your Stipend. 50L a week won't get you that 500L AV for another two and a half months? That's fine, you have Dwell. Oh wait, you don't own land. Just buy the money, what's the use in earning it, anyway?"

I'll add more as I think of it, but this is my rant for now.

Can I just say... Worst timing ever! My group just put down a huge amount of L$ to buy about 40% of Zoe, and have a payment schedule to pay off a rather large balance. We're now up to about 85% of the sim, and finally have enough room to hold really big building contests. I've spent the last 3 or 4 days terraforming and getting ready for our first contest, and now I don't even get a piddling little support from LL to help with prize money. Would it have killed LL to have given us some advance warning on this? I wouldn't have put myself in debt for no reason if I'd known event support was going away. I wasn't looking for a way to give money away, but for a way to entertain others (and myself) with some help from LL.

I suppose we can experiment with other ways of running contests. We could charge an entry fee, or solicit support for prize money in return for advertising at the contest (works so well for NASCAR), or offer non-monetary prizes. But I have a hard time believing that people will pay a $25 or $50 fee to enter a Primtionary game.

I would have preferred to nix the rating bonuses entirely and keep or expand the event support. Sure, I'm happy to see the free money ball go away and the death of sexiest naked av contests. But Primtionary and Mae's quizzes and Jeopardy and building contests are much of why I hang out in SL, and if those all go away, I probably will too.

Why is everyone so stuck on money...DO you realize that most game shows give away PRIZES instead of money. Heres an idea....give away PRIZES

But, who is going to pay for the prizes?

Premium members are looking at 500L per week in stipend, with no hope of earning more unless they work. If they are working, when do they have time to host events? If they have the time, because they are not working, where will the money come from to host events?

And, just one more question -- How much do Linden dollars actually cost Linden Labs?

Hmmmm...

I agree that the only way SL will have any content in terms of events worth attending now (and there was Much worthwhile content before, btw, compared to TSO at any rate) will be if events hosts become a profession that is paid. To do so we must have some system, some mechanism for payment and this does not exist. Please let me explain. Currently, a club owner may recoup a very very small amount on dwell, and if people pay the owner (often a complex system such as a group) they contribute to events on that site in general. HOWEVER the club owner is often not the same person as the events host. So the club owner (who makes almost no money from dwell and may make some small amount from cover) would need to charge people a minimum of $20 per person with average event attendance numbers, to pay the events host alone the amount that he or she used to make from the lindens). Then the owner (assuming there aren't multiple owners each having to pay the events host $1.25 from the 3.7 they saw from their share of theprofits after split among group owners) has to redistribute that money to staff. The more complex the ownership, the more difficult to pay hosts. We need the equivalent of a vend machine for events hosts. Some means by which people would pay at the door or not gain entry. This could work like a security program that asks for money then kicks people out if they haven't paid that fee by so many minutes.

By the way, in the real world? Events are subsidized. They are subsidized considerably through long established granting funds among private industry which is in turn subsidized by government for having such a fund, and by government directly. This is true in almost all cultures. I know of no societies in which Arts or Culture are not funded in some small part by governments.

What I keep reiterating is how do people pay a host when the charge for event button pays the landowner? This is complicated when the land is owned by a group as many clubs are. The reason people don't use this system currently is that it is utterly inefficient. Imagine that you are a landowner (one of several in a group) and you have been paid your $3.27 share of the house's take for last night's event. You now need to pay the host (if you are in the loop and know who the host last night even was) $1.635 for hosting. And you thought the lindens were slow to pay? Just wait till you try to work THAT system. You see? We are lacking a system for efficient payment for events hosts. ((Scripters, Please chat with me or cherry took in game if you think you can build a script that will bypass this and charge a cover charge at the door! We need your help!))

Also, those folks planning to run events for free will no doubt do this to invite friends to their homes or meet people, but it does take as much time and effort (and in its own way certain skills as well) so do not expect it to happen too often. A friend of mine said that this would be his own personal trend: to have events in his gathering place for his friends. After his first event I asked him how it went and he reported that it went great, but that he would not be doing that very often. So if you are thinking that the social landscape of SL will be populated by altruistic parlour hosts, you may be right but it will be a very thin population. Personally, I liked having 3 or 4 events per hour to choose from. It will be sad if i have only 3 or 4 per day to choose from.

The singlemost factor that made me pay premium from my trial week was the events. I liked the idea that they existed in such an organized way and I liked the idea that I could add something worthwhile to the community and be renumerated for that. As a trained arts administrator with years of experience in arts marketing and a BFA and MFA in theatre, I have outside skills to bring to that, just as a computer programmer has outside skills to bring to scripting. I am more than willing to charge people for what they get (and some will be willing to pay but many more will be willing and unable to pay). However, even if have the audience, and the event, and expertise, and a really really fun idea it still does not translate as a host stipend because there is no mechanism to pay hosts! So the whole thing is moot! Unless I host on my own land or rent myself out to mallbarons (which i doubtless will do, given my lack of options, and if they'll have me socialist that i am). ;-D

What I perceived when I had my trial of SL was that it was a vibrant community with a lot going on socially and that made it vastly preferrable to the games I was playing before SL. I rationalized my $10 a month (now $30 a month, but soon reducing to save for pagemaker) would go to replace my costs in another game and considered it a change for the better. As marketers know, a consumer buys not only a product but a perception of that product. When the consumers perception and experience do not match, the consumer has cognitive dissonance and becomes, instead of a lifelong consumer of your organizations product (arguably much much cheaper than creating a new customer) a disgrungled or merely marginally satisfied customer. It makes sense to EVERYONE (from sellers of lindens on down the chain) to keep people playing the game. IF there is no or not much social content, new players may perceive a vastly different product and it may negatively impact game player growth. But maybe this is what old players want: less new players to annoy them with there mere presence in the landscape. One thing to consider is that this also means less $$ for the lindens (or at the very least less fully exploited opportunities for $$) and less $$ for those trying to sell merchandise in game. Why should someone buy that fancy ball gown if there is no fancy ball at which to wear it?

Bottom dollar is that events are good for SL and for its economy. Before making this move, Lindens would have been wise to consult with those most hard hit by the impact (events hosts) to discuss how the most evident problems could be negotiated (such as how to pay hosts in clubs where ownership systems preclude the use of the charge for events button as a useful means of earned money distribution).

*chuckles dryly* It is true that there are frequent logical errors to be found among posts, but they certainly are not limited to this one. I think what the frustrated player is trying to say is that the change effectively polarizes two groups: the folks that make rl $ from SL and the folks that pay rl$ for lindens to be able to play sl. The changes and subsequent polarization draw a clear line as there is the sense that something of worth has been taken from one group and given to another. This is supportable via the reasoning that the changes were made to keep stability for those making money from SL. In order to preserve the stability (a high linden $) those who buy lindens had to sacrifice many of the ways they make money in game in order to break even and ostensibly to buy less lindens (ratings, contest attending, events hosting). Clear now? if not, give me a shout. I would be happy to discuss the nebulous ground that constitutes rhetorical causality with you at any time. ;-D

Imagine if i said "my heat source isn't going away, just my job to pay for it is" with the same sense of confidence people say "events aren't going away, just events support is." would i sound silly or what?

Why should LL pay you for the content you create?

The consumer should pay the bill for the content they want.

Acknowledging that we have a paradigm we are working with here that arts and culture are consumables and therefore content that should be supported by the consumers, my primary issue is a mechanism by which they can do that. Since the changes, I have hosted a number of events and the first one was a triumph for the capitalistic model. People came, paid their $20 at the door, got their programs and everyone was happy. However, at the two subsequent events, it took repeated urgings for me to get even half of the room's occupants to pay for programs. Some people wanted to be there without having to pay. We need some kind of a script that bounces people who don't pay and which gives ticket counts and who paid to the host (as well as paying to the host instead of the ownership of the club which is often quite complex).

I am happy to make events people want to come to. That part isn't the problem. The problem is that hosts and events workers are now reliant entirely upon tips and these are considered by players to be optional. Imagine how many people would pay a vendor if payment were optional. See my problem? Also, I noticed that some of the posters of arts and culture events haven't been making them (less writers events for sure). I hope this isn't a trend. I will host one Tuesday and see if it can work with prizes for all, a modest cash offering for the winner and a small cover charge payable at the door. We'll see how this works. In the meantime, if there have been benefits of the economic changes I have not seen them. So far, I have seen no vendors of my usual fare lowering prices and my favourite linden seller has left his prices unchanged throughout the entire debate (they never went down and so far they haven't gone up). So still, from what I can see, my dependable income has gone down and my speculative income is more speculative than ever. Anybody Wanna Make a Bouncer Script? Do scripters read the forums?

Post in the Scripting Tips section asking for something like what you want... you'll most likely get a reply.