Historical Parallels

I couldn't resist sharing this Letter of the Week that was sent to Mark Steyn, whose very informational website link can be found at: http://www.marksteyn.com/index.cfm

HISTORICAL PARALLELS
There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January..... In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January.That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, consider the following...

FDR...
led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

Truman...
finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

John F. Kennedy...
started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

Johnson...
turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

Clinton...
went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. (we are STILL there). He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

In the two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has…
liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats (and media) are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...
It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound! That was a 51-day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida !!!!

Our Commander-In-Chief is doing the best job he knows how. The military is doing a superb job, given the circumstances.The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts.

J Damon

Makes you think doesn't it? I know it gave me some things on which to mentally chew.

The facts, but people will see what they want to see.

Example, John F. Kennedy is a saint and a hero to many, but he was far from that. As you mentioned, he got us into Vietnam, no further say in that. I won't even go into detail on his affairs (a sin being a Catholic, and highly unethical for a president), or how his family obtained their fortune.

Even on his dealings with Cuba, he showed terrible judgment whether you look at it from the left or the right.

From the left:

He incited and supported the invasion of a sovereign nation. He also blessed numerous assasination attempts against Fidel Castro. Fidel's only sin was to have cleaned up the island from the abuses by American companies, the mob, and the US government.

From the right:

He incited, trained, armed, and promised full military support to 'liberation forces' in order to free Cuba from Fidel, only to abandon them and see them massacred in the Bay of Pigs.

And this is just the generally accepted facts. Now, if you are Michael Moore, you could put together two 'documentaries' out of clips from Kennedy's public life and make him out to be a living God in one or the Devil incarnate in the other. There would be many people that would be 110% convinced that what the documentary showed was a fact (either one of the versions). Either way, Mr. Moore would make money, and people would be aggresively arguing they know 'the truth' about JFK.

History is not a science. History can and is written by anyone that takes the time to do so and most of it from their personal point of view.

"Trust no one"

-tito

Ditto... nice posts y'all!

A very informative website produced this information? Are you sure of that? Or are you just some mindless idiot reposting vomit you read on a website?

According to the Department of Defense there were 48 soldiers killed in January in Iraq. Just to make this a little clearer for you, here are their names.

Sgt. Dennis A. Corral, 33, of Kearney, Neb.
Spc. Marc S. Seiden, 26, of Brigantine, N.J.
Spc. Solomon C. Bangayan, 24, of Jay, Vt.
Capt. Eric T. Paliwoda, 28, of Texas
Capt. Kimberly N. Hampton, 27, of Easley, S.C.,
Spc. Luke P. Frist, 20, of West Lafayette, Ind.
Luke Frist, a 20-year-old from Brookston
Pfc. Jesse D. Mizener, 24, of Auburn, Calif.
Chief Warrant Officer Aaron A. Weaver, 32, of Florida
Chief Warrant Officer Ian D. Manuel, 23, of Florida.
Chief Warrant Officer Philip A. Johnson, Jr., 31, of Alabama.
Staff Sgt. Craig Davis, 37, of Opelousas, La.
Spc. Christopher A. Golby, 26, of Johnstown, Penn.
Spc. Nathaniel H. Johnson, 22, of Augusta, Ga.
Sgt. 1st Class Gregory B. Hicks, 35, of Duff, Tenn.
Sgt. Jeffrey C. Walker, 33, of Havre de Grace, Md.
Spc. Michael A. Diraimondo, 22, of Simi Valley, Calif.
Staff Sgt. Ricky L. Crockett, 37, of Broxton, Ga.
Sgt. Keicia M. Hines, 27, of Citrus Heights, Calif.
Staff Sgt. Roland L. Castro, 26, of San Antonio, Texas
Pfc. Cody J. Orr, 21, of Ruskin, Fla.
Spc. Larry E. Polley, Jr., of Center, Texas
Sgt. Edmond L. Randle, 26, of Miami, Fla.
Master Sgt. Kelly L. Hornbeck, 36, of Fort Worth, Texas
Spc. Gabriel T. Palacios, 22, of Lynn, Mass.
Pfc. James D. Parker, 20, of Bryan, Texas.
Chief Warrant Officer (CW2) Michael T. Blaise, 29, from Tenn.
Chief Warrant Officer (CW2) Brian D. Hazelgrove, 29, of Fort Rucker, Ala.
Spc. Jason K. Chappell, 22, of Hemet, Calif.
Spc. William R. Sturges Jr., 24, of Spring Church, Pa.
Sgt. Randy S. Rosenberg, 23, of Berlin, N.H.
Sgt. Keith L. Smette, 25, of Fargo, N.D.
Staff Sgt. Kenneth W. Hendrickson, 41, of Bismarck, N.D.
Pfc. Ervin Dervishi, 21, Fort Worth, Texas
Chief Warrant Officer Patrick Dorff, 32, of Minnesota
Staff Sgt. Christopher Bunda, 29, of Washington
1st Lt. Adam G. Mooney, 28, of Cambridge, Md.
2nd Lt. Luke S. James, 24, of Oklahoma.
Staff Sgt. Lester O. Kinney II, 27, of Zanesville, Ohio
Sgt. Cory R. Mracek, 26, of Hay Springs, Neb
Capt. Matthew J. August, 28, of Rhode Island.
Sgt. 1st Class James T. Hoffman, 41, of Whitesburg, Ky.
Sgt. Travis A. Moothart, 23, of Brownsville, Ore.
Staff Sgt. Sean G. Landrus, 31, of Thompson, Ohio
Pfc. Luis A. Moreno, 19, of Bronx, N.Y.
Sgt. Eliu A. Miersandoval, 27, of San Clemente, Calif.
Cpl. Juan C. Cabralbanuelos, 25, of Emporia, Kan.
Pfc. Holly J. McGeogh, 19, of Taylor, Mich.

So I would like for you to pick 13 names from this list. I would then like for you to sit down and write letters to their families. In your letter I would like for you to explain to them how the deaths of their family members doesn't count because it won't fit into some bullshit propaganda piece from a "very informative website" on the Internet.

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January


Care to read that again? I never said there weren't more deaths in Iraq in the month of January, but 39 of them were 'combat related'. And please be careful who you call a mindless idiot, I might very well consider that flaming....which brings me to...

***************
The Party of Tolerance??

I was talking to my family about having a debate party for the final debate when it was suggested it might be fun to invite some tolerant Democrats. I thought about it a bit and realized I didn’t know any, and thought "tolerant Democrat" was an oxymoron similar to "jumbo shrimp". That’s what inspired the writing of this particular entry.

It never ceases to amaze me how the Democrats have continued to be able to label Republicans, and conservatives in general, as being intolerant, while the general public perceives liberals as tolerant. It has been my experience, and the experience of many conservatives I know, that Democrats or liberals have been mean-spirited, intolerant, and, at times, cruel. I have been to many protests as a pro-life activist, and the vitriol I have encountered from the pro-choice side is amazing. I have been screamed at within inches of my face, have had things thrown at me and have been spit upon. I saw no one on our side act in such a manner.

Let me give you some other examples of what I'm talking about. There are subtle ways in which liberals and the liberal media have used their positions to progress their agenda. If you listen closely to the words chosen by reporters you will hear a double standard when it comes to how they describe liberals versus conservatives. A liberal who is for abortion rights is called "pro-choice". The conservative is not called "pro-life", but "anti-choice". News people will generally label a conservative when talking or writing about them, such as, "Conservative pundit Ann Coulter has a new book out...” but do not add that label when talking or writing about a liberal, such as, "Liberal Senator Hillary Clinton has a new book out...” Conservatives are always labeled as such; liberals are not.

Conservatives are routinely discriminated against in our public schools. Bibles are outlawed, but other religious books are not. A teacher lost her job because she put up a display of all the presidents in her classroom, including President Bush. She was told she had to take down the picture of Bush unless she also put up a picture of John Kerry. John Kerry is not, nor ever has been president, so it makes no sense for her to have to put his picture up there alongside all the other presidents. Parents complained, and she lost her job. She is now at a new school, where the new principal has no problem with her putting up the presidential pictures. Does this sound like America or Nazi Germany?

The Democrats are supposed to be the party of "the big tent", but the truth is if you do not goose-step to their agenda, you are not welcome. Look at what happened to Zell Miller after he spoke at the Republican convention. He was not allowed to speak out without it being called "hate speech" by his fellow Democrats. They have not allowed a pro-life speaker at the Democratic convention since Jimmy Carter was president. Republicans, on the other hand, had pro-life and pro-choice speakers throughout their conventions. We even had a Democrat speak!

Tammy Bruce is an openly gay, pro-choice, gun owning, pro-death penalty, voted-for-President Reagan progressive, who is also voting for President Bush. I listened to her radio show one day as she spoke about what turned her from a liberal to a conservative. She said that after attending both conventions for years, she could not help but notice the difference between the two parties. She said the Democrats were hateful, vicious, unhappy, people, and the Republicans were upbeat fun and positive. She is a Fox News Correspondent, which I find interesting, because Fox news has also been labeled.

One other thing that has come to my attention is that I have heard MANY people say that for the first time they are actually afraid to put Bush/Cheney bumper stickers on their cars or signs in their yards. They have heard about too many people who have had their cars keyed or otherwise vandalized. Yard signs are stolen on a regular basis. It’s a very sad time in our history when we have to be afraid of expressing our choice for president.

Where’s the tolerance?

Very eloquent Ulalla, I enjoyed reading that ! There is no tolerance in these forums when it comes to these political diatribes. Hell, for very little much else as far as that goes.
Peace

Just so I am clear on this. Please define combat related killings.

What freaking difference does it make really ?? Throughout this entire thing going on close to two years now over 1000 coalition PEOPLE have been killed, two of them my friends. I didn't get killed, I am thankful. This is bullshit and needs to stop. Before I get jumped on yes I know the numbers of Iraqi's, Jordanians etc etc deaths are multiples of the 1000 and I ache for humanity on this as well.

Uhm, folks killed in combat or by bombings? Versus folks killed in vehicle or other accidents.

Lovely piece on how Democrats are intolerant. It gave me a chuckle at times. One piece did catch my eye though.

I read this story when it came out and the parents and administration of that school were just wrong. It was wrong that the teacher lost her job. I actually sat down and wrote a letter of protest.

I don't think anyone will claim that Democrats are always correct. For that reason pulling these examples to label democrats as a whole intolerant is a little silly.

Versus folks 'killed' by holding their breath waiting to see whats happens in the world next

Combat or bombings.

I'm still a little unsure what qualifies. I gave you the list. Maybe you could be kind enough to list the soldier name and cause of death that disqualifies them from this statistic.

I am very excited about expanding my knowledge in this area.

Why do people make the assumption that if you're against Bush and opposed to the invasion in Iraq that you're automatically a hard line democrat who'd blindly defend whatever they've done that's similar? It's a black and white argument for something that most people see in shades of gray.

Neehai sweetie, I'm gonna leave you to do that research. Because, well, as you've pointed out before...you don't like or trust my sources.

I don't know your sources. It isn't about trusting them. The whole point of sources is that you cite them. You don't present them on blind faith and trust. You can look them up at the DoD.

Also, do you have a source for the 35 murders in Detriot in January? That one was eluding me as well.

As I said, I am intrigued by the amount of learning that awaits me from thei very informative website with sekrit sources.

http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=9791

There ya go sweets.

Excellent. And the combat deaths?

Surely if you can back up one so easily the other shouldn't be too hard.

http://icasualties.org/oif/prdDetails.aspx?hndRef=1-2004
Haven't sorted em out yet but indeed there were 47 Deaths that month.

http://web1.whs.osd.mil/mmid/casualty/OIF-Total-by-month.pdf

A link posted on http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm

anything for you Neehai.

39 Hostile deaths UK and US combined http://icasualties.org/oif/prdDetails.aspx?hndRef=1-2004

Good source. I will accept your definitions of the deaths in Iraq.

I would disagree on some of the "non-hostile" classifications, but it is a source.

I still find the original post to be shameful propaganda.

I have two cousins, one with the USMC in Iraq and one with the Army in Afghanistan. Not to mention several friends serving in Iraq.

Would you like their address so they can tell you what they think of their mission? I think you would be surprised with their response.

So write to me, and I will tell you my family's feelings...


-tito

You think I would be surprised? It is unlikely.

I believe there are many soldiers who support the war. I also think there are many who oppose the war and some who aren't really sure why they are there.

Would you like me to write them? Do you think they would want me to write them?

Coming back to this.


This ignores the small fact that Hitler declared war on the United States on December 11, 1941.

Here is the timeline for Republicans who think American history is hard work.

December 7, 1941 Japan attacks Pearl Harbor, Philippines, and Guam; U.S. Pacific fleet crippled.

December 8, 1941 President Roosevelt addresses the Congress, asking for a declaration of war against Japan.

December 8, 1941 U.S. Congress declares war on Japan.

December 11, 1941 Germany and Italy declare war on U.S.

December 11, 1941 United States declares war on Germany.

So, contrary to your website of convenient facts, the US did declare war on Japan, the country that attacked us.

Then Germany declared war on us.

Then we declared war on Germany.

As a former military member who received more Dear Abby Xmas messages/mail than I ever received from my immediate family over 22 years, sure go for it. Even Republican servicemembers have a desire for mail, any mail, so long as it doesn't accuse them of being "baby killers".

When I was much younger I began a correspondence with a soldier in Nam while I was in high school. Unfortunately, he remains MIA. I still have the POW/MIA bracelet about my wrist. I also have the letters where he poured out his hopes, faith (in the nation, in God, in other things), his fears, and his dreams. 72 individual envelopes with at times 3-5 individual letters in them showing he often wrote simply to be in contact with someone.

"want you to write"? Damn straight. If you can't afford the stamp.. IM me in world. I'll give you some $L to trade on GOM.