Hey! I'm European... please rip me off!

Sounds like you need to learn how to think for yourself instead of thinking what your capitalist overlords want you to think. Or at the very least you need to get a grip on that holier-than-thou attitude.
My bank account currently holds a grand total of 3 euros and I have no way of replenishing it.
If a new version of windows comes out and I download it, my bank account remains at 3 euros, and I will still have no way to replenish it.
Bill Gates's bank account was at $40 billion before I downloaded it, and after I downloaded it, it was still $40 billion.
On second thought, in the few hours that took me to download the new windows, Bill Gates probably made more money than what I ever will.
Even if I HAD a job, windows isnt cheaper in poor countries, and it would cost me TEN ENTIRE MONTHS OF SALARY to buy a legal copy of this windows I got for free. Hmm, should I starve for about a year, or should I just pop open Kazaa and start the download?
I'm neither american nor capitalist, and morals are relative. I'm not a christian either, and most of what you call morals are nothing but christian brainwashing.
I would sooner believe that the very notion of copyright is immoral, because it deprives the people at large from something that could benefit their lives at no cost to the original creator. Software is infinitely replicable by nature, so it isnt scarce. Therefore it doesnt fit with the capitalist status quo of charging money for that which is scarce, so the rich capitalists attempt to further a status quo that benefits only them, by enforcing artificial scarcity instead of letting the world evolve.
"Information wants to be free"
Open source software has zero development cost and far greater quality than anything Billy Gaits ever put out... I also have a copy of linux installed, and use it extensively.
FYI I will continue to download everything for as long as I can, but I would welcome the coming of an unbreakable copy prevention system.
If all the 75% of portuguese people would have to suddenly pony up the dough for their pirated copies of windows, they would probably switch to open source software en masse, given that there is no way in hell they are going to be able to spend that kind of money on a silly piece of software.
And then the other 25% would have to use Open Office to open .sxw files, because 3 out of 4 of their friends do not have Microsoft Word anymore.
Repeat this for all the poor countries across the world, and you would soon bring about the downfall of the software industry as a whole.
I should remind you that poor countries are vital to the software world, because we can code as much as you can, but we can also live comfortably on a meager salary. This value that we are creating on a daily basis was made possible by the fact that we could get software for free. Every day there are new people entering the market, people who are immensely talented, but who would be forced to go work at a factory or some other menial chore, had they not had the opportunity to learn how to code, or how to design cool flash animations, how to retouch pictures in photoshop, etc.
FWIW, I actually DIDNT download poser, and meant that comment as a joke. I'm far too busy with college work right now. But I have absolutely nothing against downloading poser or any other piece of software.
And I will continue to download everything I want no matter what you say, and feel absolutely no remorse.
As I said, the piracy rate in portugal is 75%, and piracy is socially condoned. Meaning, those who actually buy software are laughed at for wasting their money, or at least stared at and asked if they are rich.
Please understand that people are entitled to living in a different culture than yours, or else you may well go tell the muslims that it's morally wrong to buy and marry 3 different 12 year old virgins, something that would be a heinous crime in america.

Eggy,

As someone who works in the software industry, I'm sorry but I find your attitude disgusting. If you have 3 euros in your account, you have no entitlement to Windows or any other software you did not buy, and no amount of justification makes it right. It is not holier than thou - it is a reality of business, you are stealing the intellectual property and work of a company that you have no right to. You can use Microsoft to justify your theft because it's a big corporation - but how about all the small companies that lose business because their software is copied instead of paid for. You think they have no losses? That is bullshit. Piracy affects small companies far more than it does a company like Microsoft. As far as the "culture" of your country, when the product is made in your country, then your local culture applies - you are stealing the product of another country that you have no right to. You rally against capitalism with this entitlement rhetoric that is just sickening. Get a job, earn some actual money, and actually contribute to society instead of just stealing from it.

As far as thinking for myself, I am not the one quoting what everyone in my country does like some fucking lemming, you are. I thought you were such a Linux fanatic anyway, why are you stealing the products of a company you hate so much?

Cristiano

"Hello, RIAA? There's this guy named Eggy..."



Seriously Eggy.. I know alot of people who d/l stuff for 'free' too, but I prefer to buy my shit, cuz I can. If the economy where you are residing is so bad, you should really consider a relocation. With a skill set such as yours, you could probably find work in Europe *somewhere* that would increase your balance of €3.

Or not.

am i the crazy one for thinking there are a lot of closed argurements constantly perpetuated on these forums that claim a superior morality based on all range of activity be it software piracy or rating systems or land use?

as far as software piracy goes, if your software comapny is relying on revenues from portugal or algeria, start handing out your resume and looking for a new job.

property as we understand it is a western liberal (capitalist) idea. it doesn't hold the same meaning in other frames. let's keep it real. accept that or bomb them!

Walk into a store in Portugal and steal something, and then tell me it is a Western capitalist idea when they arrest you.

The last time I checked, Portugal is a western country. As part of the EU, it has passed legislation that provides copyright protection to software and makes piracy of software a crime. THese laws were passed to comply with the EU Directive on the Legal Protection of Computer Programs of 1991. Portugal does have one of the highest piracy rates in the world, at over 90%, though it has been declining.

There are many cultures in the world the consider the rape and denegration of women, the murder of citizens for dissent, and many other things are perfectly acceptible and just. It is not about moral superiority, there are things in life that are clearly right and wrong -stealing something you are not entitled to is one of those things that goes back to the dawn of time.

In the end, my original post was about how rude it was to gloat about stealing software in a post where someone is talking about the price that they paid for it.

Cristiano

Especially when said person is a software developer who started the thread with the line



and then later went on to assert that if you disagreed with me



In all seriousness, though, I am surprised at Eggy's viewpoint, considering he's a developer himself.

Yes, Eggy. I know. You give away all your code on request. But some of us have to eat, ya know.

common, cris, 90% of his country are software pirates, you said so yourself. he's following social norms.

what he's doing is not legal but it doesn't make him an asshole. and it doesn't make him immoral either. most of his countrymen would say he is a sensible man in this respect. this is where cultural relativity comes into play.

of course while you are comparing software piracy to rape and murder you could also call him hitler! using illegitimate copies of software isn't theft. those are funny word associations.

why don't we take this arguement one step further where you might suggest that 90% of portuguese people are immoral assholes.

devils advocate jauani wu.

p.s.: eggy was using a "completely legal archive" hehe

p.p.s: stop using steal and theft. those words are playing tricks on you!

Jau,

Again, I refer you back to why I said he is an asshole, not from the theft itself, try reading what I actually said. As far as the use of the word theft, just because the product can be duplicated digitally, it is still considered a form of theft. If you tap into your neighbor's cable tv wiring to get free cable, it is considered theft of service. Quit playing the semantics game, taking something you have no right to have is theft. I pointed out rape and murder because of your societal norms comment. I don't find the offenses equal.

On another note,imagine for a moment if software was a viable business in Portugal. If stores could actually sell software, ther would be jobs created, which generates income that goes back into the economy. As a country. Portugal will remain impoverished if they place no value on actually owning something that they can get for free. If there is no market, there is no income.

Cristiano

Isn't asshole a relative term? Not like "my uncle Vinnie is an asshole" but that everyone has opinions of who's an asshole and opinions are like assholes since everyone has them and they all stink? So even if you think something someone does makes them an asshole you have to remember that we all have assholes and they only have a few key functions... I know my asshole doesn't gloat about not paying for software...

So instead of creating a negative instance of communicaton with someone that effects the entire fourm, use a less negative word. Negativity breeds more negativity. People tend to make things worse by being worse people than they could be.

Love and PEACE!!!

BTW... did this thread not get totally hijacked or what...

Heh I dont think there's an awful lot of people interested in pirating the obscure business applications I have coded in the past
Anyway, I will shut up now and ask nicely that you people collaborate with me in reducing the record-breaking drama levels in these forums
As for moving to another country, well, I could very well get a job right here right now, but being the horrible criminal that I am, I also enjoy not having to pay any taxes because as far as the gubmint knows, I never worked for anyone
Plus I want to mop up the last of my college classes first.
EDIT: Leonn, just saw your post, you need to say that kinda stuff more often

Is "Poser Artist" ($109 from Curious Labs) sufficient for creating character animations to use in SL? Might save folks about $90 if so ... (when compared to cost of Poser 5).

Yes Athos. Poser Artist is simply Poser 4 with a new name.