Sandbox no longer has a sanity governor

Before 1.2 you could only create as many prims in the sandbox as your pocket book allowed. And this pretty much kept mass prim rez griefing to a minimum. Now anybody can rez thousands of prims and turn them physics causing the sim to drop to its knees. I have been seeing this more and more. This makes doing any actual building there pretty tough.

One vote for self-government.

I believe the vehicle sims are psuedo sandboxes, in that theyre cleared every day... if its possible, perhaps LL can allow people to build on those.

There needs to be some kind of sim that allows physics experiments to go on unchecked, its one of my favorite pastimes

==Chris

Don't get me wrong, I love physics. But, watching a wall of 1000 dominoes crash to the ground over and over isn't quite my idea of experimentation. Some people might think so though. And that is fine as long as it isn't adversely affecting everybody around them.

I really have to agree here. Guys, ruining others' ability to use a sim isn't experimentation. No, not everyone has to provide a useful purpose for their sandbox projects; that's the point of the sim. However, aside from making a big mess and slowing the sim down, I fail to see what possible scripting or physics benefit you get from repeatedly knocking over a couple thousand dominoes.

While I can't argue that my attempts to learn a little trig or do some stuff with particles are any more or less valid than your use of an open building sim, I'm still pretty sure I have a right to use it when you're not around. Guys, if you're going to toss sim FPS in the trash, you could at least clean your 2000 prims up after you were done with them. Just because nobody else can use the sim when you're having fun doesn't mean you have to ruin things for everyone else after you go.

I hate to say this, but maybe we should have a Linden prim-wiping feature where one's objects are automatically wiped (returned?) from the sandbox as soon as one leaves the region? Or simply wipe the sim more regularly than once a day?

I was thinking of posting this same thing but I felt that because I am so new no one would listen...I just wanted to say that I agree with the fact that a few people are not utilizing the sandboxes for the reason which they seem to have been created....new ideas and experiments...I love seeing the interesting builds and fresh scripting concepts created by the many SL residents who are on the cutting edge of design and scripting....but when people go to the sandbox to drive vehicles that they didn't design or send out 3000 particles and leave them lying around it ruins everyones ability to create. I would hate to see the world restricted but maybe if the few disenters would realize that those actions should and could be done on their own land (if you want 200 dominos buy the land for it) or in the vehicle sims (there is more than enough room to drive there without knocking into people) the sandbox would be a better place for everyone, and would maybe crash less. Anywho that is just my 2 pennies...happy holidays to everyone .

What about having the land bought in smallish sections - say 15-16 sections - by different lindens. That way each square could only hold 1,000 prims. It won't make it impossible to grief it, but it will divide up the prims to the space of the sim. I don't (yet) play a lot in the sandbox though so I'm not sure how well that would work.

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You can sell things wherever you like, maxx. No one ever told you you needed land to sell things. Heck, you can sell them at the welcome area if you'd like.
I've had to put up with my fair share of idiots asking me "hey wanna buy this hoverboard for $1000" or something like that.
Apparently they dont know how to check a person's "birth" date

Perhaps we could just have a more frequent sandbox wiping? Wipe once an hour everything that hasnt been modified or moved for an hour.

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If you're not in the sim for a certain length of time, your items should be returned to your inventory, agreed.

But don't restrict number of prims. This will be the last place that you can experiment with multi object rezzing and detailed builds without having to worry about the system, or take out builds that have exceeded your prim allotmentand try to redesign them to get them on your land. If the prim limit is put into effect then there are items that I literally will never be able to take out of my inventory again and ideas that I will literally never be able to take out of my head ever.

But yes the physical dominos doing nothing but falling all over me for hours as I was working was a bit much, and it continued despite the obvious fact that it was taking the sim down again and again.

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I vote for marshal law! (ME!)

But yes it is a problem!

I put up my shop in the sandbox almost everyday, why? Better publicity, I also have a shop setup in jessie which is there everyday (aka, I own the land there) SO I dont feel I am sidestepping anything. However, I see where your comeing at, and, simply put, there are more people in the sandbox daily then there are in jessie. While I dont commend nor condone this, I feel people should atleast have a right to do this.

1) Define "self government".

2) While I wholy agree that the sim needs both limitless abilities for people to run their experiments and the ability to work together to do them.

The problem is some people just want to throw up a bunch of prims and watch them fall. This is the only place they can do this (unless they buy their own sim) where it is completely within their current rights. I am sure people dont want them going to their home server and doing this even if it is on their land as it would still probably bring down the server.

Now how do you define what is or isnt just some usless physical prims falling from the sky?

What if the person has some over riding reason for testing the system capatabilities or is looking for some way to achive such an effect WITHOUT bringing downt he server (thus needing to bring down the server a few times until it works).

These are not often likely sinario's but they're possible and thus need to be considered before we start throwing up laws and regulations.

How do you define a limit on experimentation?

Now I will say I DO like the idea of any prims you have in the sim being automaticly cleaned up when you leave (thow I think it should be "After you are gone for X minutes". That would at least keep it from being cluttered by people who never did learn to clean up their toys.

BTW: Ryen, why do you "have the right" to place a shop in an area set aside for experimentation. That is what privet land is for. You ARE abusing your privliages in this case (in my opinion).

Remeber: The road to ruin is designed by the rightous and paved with good intentions. Don't throw up walls until you know what your walling off.

Gwy, I dont, I dont know what I was thinking when I posted that last...umm... post. After seeing the extents of this, I am really sick of it. WHy cant they just buy some land and put up a shop?

I will admit to at first dropping a bike in both sandboxes for sale, but was curious enough to ask why when it was returned to me:

According to the Lindens (Jeff, if my admittedly very flakey memory serves me correctly), the sandbox areas have a "no unattended sales" policy. Additionally, they are/were apparently considering a "no sales in the sandbox at all" policy. Fair do's, so I stopped.

I think that they should amend the sandbox signs to reflect this ruling at least...

On the "random stuff in the sandbox" policy, I'd like to have some sort of popular opinion return to owner facility if they're not in the sandbox for more than, say, 30 minutes. For example, if more than a given % of the sandbox population do a "return" on the offending object, it gets given back to the owner.
Thoughts?

Thank you Ryen, sorry if that sounded venomus, I was on a perticularly bad call when I typed that part. My appologies.

Suggestions:

1) No selling. That's not what it is there for.
2) Automatically return prims to inventory after 30 minutes of not being in the sim. That way a sim bounce won't immediately cause you to lose your stuff if you go right back.
3) No daily sim wipe now that the 30 minute absence wipe is there. This would save the headaches of forgetting that a sim wipe is coming and losing hours worth of work.
4) 3 (2 ?) strike rule for Abuse - then you are banned from the sandbox (at least). Easy enough to track and enforce using the existing system.
5) Update the signs to reflect the rules

Common Sense Self Limits:

1) llCollisionSound("", 0) on physics objects
2) Don't ride vehicles around the sim that you aren't developing. You have 6, count them, 6 sims for vehicles. And they are hardly ever used. If you want more jumps or other vehicle diversions that aren't there now, ask for them.
3) Save your 1000 domino wall drop experiments for when nobody else is in the sim.

Good suggestions. Anything that stops people from leaving junk they are done with laying around taking up space that others may need to use....

I don't know who's doing it, but personally I find crashing a sim over and over to be beyond rude. If it's intentional--worthy of banning from the game for awhile. I take every precaution I can think of to AVOID causing a sim to crash OR lag to death, and I'm proud of the fact that I haven't caused anything like this yet (to my knowledge).

Also I don't think it's too much to ask that we at least get a warning before someone does something they think might be risky... I know Chris (and probably others) have given warnings in the past but obviously some people don't give others that consideration...

Or perhaps just cap prims per hour instead of prims in general?

Like you can create 1000 prims in an hour, enough for all sorts of flashy scripts and stuff, but once you've used 1000 prims you have to wait an hour for them to recharge ;p

so people can still do crazy prim spam, but only for limited time.

...offer void in arizona.

(heh sorry)

Only rez 1000 prims an hour? I've been doing a lot of work recently with scripts in on_rez() blocks, so in an hour's scripting, I might rez and de-rez several thousand prims -- and I've been working with fairly small objects. For something like a script that automatically makes a topographic map of a sim, debugging might involve rezzing and derezzing tens of thousands of prims an hour.

I think the 30-minute limit on prim lifetime after you leave the sim would solve a lot of the problems, but it would also make the sandbox less interesting. One of the reasons I go there is to see what other people have been working on -- one of the more interesting things recently was a billboard that, while not quite a mile high, was most of a sim wide.

That's true, I do that too to an extent, but I'm still gonna complain about gigantor builds taking up 1/4 of the space in the sim while the owner is logged off.... (But worse than that, physics experiments left around that lag the sim to death...bah)