Observations about SL..

Hmmmm have been thinking about this and seeing it more and more..

DEATH OF ORIGINAL IDEAS...

I know it happens RL something good and popular is seen and someone takes it and uses the idea for themselves.

Clubs,Events,Clothes,Builds,Themes,Animations and even Models you name it people take part or all of a popular idea and use it sometimes stealing the idea outright..most don't even expand on it or try and improve it they just explain it differently and pretend they are the first or whatever. If you take and idea and improve it or make it better then it could be considered "NEW" or at least different.

No Wonder People Get Bored. Now there is only so much that can be done or that is popular in SL, but its funny when people complain about too many clubs or malls and then open one or somthing similar when they swore they wouldn't.

Anyone have any thoughts? A way that everyone could make a difference ? Or is SL too based on $$$$ to change things.

I agree with you 100%.

Innovating, creating a more feature packed or refined version of something that already exists is all well and good and pushes the boundaries just that bit further each time. But too often people just clone stuff. And I know they do literally clone because I watch them rip apart the original models to get the numbers or analyse the script setups to figure out the basic implementation.

But then I guess it's far harder to come up with an original concept than it is to rattle off yet-another-version of the same thing someone else did all the thinking about.

When I buy in SL, I would rather buy the original than some cheap knockoff. I'd rather support the original thinkers who will innovate and hopefully produce the next batch of cool stuff. That said, as a content creator it's more than a little disheartening when you do come up with something unique and there is a clone on the market the next day, so I totally understand those people who (like me!) rarely bother these days. And I have loadsa ideas for stuff SL doesnt have but would undoubtedly like... I just don't feel like doing it these days for these very reasons.

It is human nature. If something is successful many people will copy. I accept this as something normal and while innovation matters, competition and small improvement are also not that bad

However, what tick me off was when people who had copied some idea/concept themself, later claimed to own it and harassed me and others for doing similar thing. It can be annoying if you have been doing something in RL for years, then start doing in SL and somebody whom you never heared of, but who happened to be doing somewhat similar thing in SL, start harassing you and claims "ownership". Of course later you find out that this great "inventor" was just continuing what somebody else had started in SL before...

I think everybody should do what is fun and not pay too much attention to what others do already. Those who are really innovative always have an edge and find something new

And after boom with clubs and malls I predict most will vanish and only best ones will persist

Tipsy, have you read this post on evolutionary fitness?

It says pretty much exactly what you are saying, and postulates a theory to explain it, and a strategy to change it!

Is there any reason why the numbers of an object should be visible when its nomod?

Azelda

No, and I dont think that the scripts and where and how they are placed in an object should be visible too.

I mean, I watch people literally reverse engineer products, as in 'ah, ok. so it's a client-server set up... lets see, it's got scripts here to do this, this and this... and they're talking to...'

Sure, they have to write the scripts, but the architecture of the implementation is as important as the scripts. If people couldn't do this, they might have to think for themselves occasionally

If it borked, there is still a 'recompile scripts' option. There is no need to be able to see the contents of every piece of a linked no mod object.

Well, there is something to be said about learning how to do things by taking things apart.

I don't think I agree, Tipsy. We see a great deal of specialization, and I think the island sims are evidence of that. We see newer and better animations, newer and better scripts, newer and better... etc.

The events seem to be becoming more varied... before it was mostly training and parties, now there's bingo and skydiving and other sports.

of course there's gonna be a lot of parties, a lot of the same... but there is, remember, a limit to how much a sim holds and there's a lot of new users coming.

Especially when it comes to malls on island sims.

Briana Dawson

There's far more to be said for people who develop their own styles and methods, and use their own creativity and skills rather than leech someone elses.

Yes, I guess there may be some benefit assuming you aren't doing it to blindly clone someone elses work as often seems to be the case. But I acknowledge that there are many that dont feel that way because I watch them do it all the time.

One of the things I hear most often in SL when someone sees a new product is 'pfft. I could do that easy'. Yeah. And so could I. But I'd rather support the innovators than the sheep, and I'd rather pay the people that put the effort in than spend time reinventing the wheel myself. But thats just me, I guess.

Sure, I've redone things I've seen when I've known I can do them better myself, but those are for my own purposes - not to sell a knockoff of someone elses idea to make a quick buck.

Kris, I thought you stated that all very well. I agree wholly.

As long as dwell is king, many ideas won't come to fruition because, simply, the system is geared towards aggregating as many people as possible in one location, framerate be damned. Want to open a gallery with a specific kind of art, but know perhaps only 10 people may enjoy it? Too bad, the system can't support your 'niche' interest, go open a club or mall like everyone else, live the mainstream SL DREAM!

When people ask me about SL having possibilities, I have to say:

"Yes, it does, but most of them aren't supported - so expect to pay a substantial price, in proportion to how large your dreams are."

But, if you choose something dwell-tastic, you're in with the right 'crowd'.

Good for you.

I think you're being too harsh...

I mean, hey, for example look at how architects are being taught in real life!
First, they 'study' many many building styles, buildings. God forbid, they DRAW those buildings on a paper (or machine) with their own hands! Duplicating the building! They even build models of those houses.

Later, the even TAKE IDEAS! from many places... And... look at all those medieval gothic churches! They weren't built by the same architect... no. Architects visited many churches, made sketches, then took a lot of motifs, copied them, maybe modified them a bit, made it bigger, more detailed cathedral, etc.

So... were those cathedral builders 'copyright-violators'? Or 'copycats'?
Or did they just do what's was 'modern' that time, taking good ideas, throwing out bad ones. That's evolution.

One man didn't invent the car from scratch. Someone invented the wheel... many years later, someone the four-wheeled cart, later someone the engine, etc. Who 'invented' the car, actually built upon a lot of previous 'inventions'.

In china, if someone's work was copied, that was because it was so good or so perfect, and it prided the original author.

But, nonethless... yes, i do condemn the ones, who just copy something shamelessly and claim it was their idea.

Its hard to tell whats evolution and whats just copying however.

If you think about it, every car is pretty much a copy of another car, but they may differ in slight ways.

Then theres complete innovation that adds a new feature or totaly new way of thinking about the item. A good example of this is the Seburo, rather than being "just another gun" it added many different things that typical guns did/do not have.

Copying exact behavior and adding nothing onto it an reboxing it to resell it, yeah, thats annoying.

But if someone took something I made, and added a feature onto it that I did not think of, I'd say thats a small evolution of something. The question is if the added features really do add any extra value to the product.

I personaly only buy items if I can't or don't have time to make it, in some cases I'll see something, think its usefull, make it and use it for myself. I see little point in reselling something that has the same behavior as something else because I'm not after large profits.

As for events, clubs, and such. Well thats basicly just "whats popular" or "what makes most money". Its sad... but apparently its true if so many still exist.

It still takes some creativity to stay ontop of the popular trends however I would think, if your club is nothing but a box, I doubt you'll get many people coming back, but if you offer something that others do not (wether that be more porn/money/strippers/light effects/better design/etc.) you'll get people coming back.

So while its not complete innovation, it does require some creativity for clubs to stay "popular". Eventualy all the clubs will die down as more and more people get bored with the same things and less and less club owners provide creative/fun things.

Atleast thats what I think, don't be surprised if I'm wrong.

No. Put simply, there is, imho, a world of difference between making a replica of a rl build or object and copying the prim shapes of someone elses build in world.

Yes, while reverse engineering IS mostly forbidden in the USA, it is gladly not (yet) illegal in other countries. And I do think that's a good thing. People do learn from analyzing other's objects, things! And they don't have to clone it. Maybe they'll take a nice idea, or two. Or maybe someone, who's building animals says, 'wow!, i can do it this way with less prims'?

If more and more users 'educate' themselves in SL, the overall result would be better! If not, maybe we'll have users 'inventing' the same thing over and over, like the famous coffee table, with 2 cube prims

No, No, No!!!! This is absolutely NOT true!

You can reverse engineer to your little heart's content. Its just patent and copyright that you can't violate.

AMD made a business out of reverse engineering and re-inventing the Intel wheel.

To bring this into the SL context. Say I'm building something, I copyright my scripts by making the "No Copy". You CAN'T use the code in there. But if you were to rip open this object I built, and saw that I had 3 prims and 2 scripts called "foo" and "bar", and got an inkling as to how I did what I did, you're kewl.

There ain't nothing wrong with that. In fact, if you make a bigger and better object that does the same thing, then I say more power to you.

But to get back to the point of Philip's BLOG, its not these incremental improvements that will bring a more fullness of Second Life, its thinking (to coin a phrase) "outside the prim" that will make the world richer.

Come up with new ideas, dammit! I know I'm constantly working on them. And if you blaze a trail and then someone comes along and does it bigger and better than you, don't be bitter. Be proud of what you brought into this world.

Concepts under development by Cassidy Labs :

Drag Racing
Toy Trains (vehicles)
Acid Chair

My US$0.02...

- Ace

Toy Trains? Hey, I thought of that this summer (never seeing a toy train in SL), maybe I still have that 'rails' objects in my inventory... Actually, I gave up on that, because I couldn't code the part that time which was supposed to follow the rails... I should've been able to do that with the collisiondetect thing, but then I thought, hey, I'd waste my time elsewhere

Okay, I did take my idea from the GSLR (Great Second Life Railway), though that wasn't a toy

But then again, you might've taken your idea from GSLR too. And I did see some radio-controlled powerboats at a place, maybe you could've taken the toy from there, too...

See! It's sometimes not that easy to define limits of copying and originality! But yes, I agree, if I were to copy your 'train' 1-on-1 scale and type, that would be shameless cloning.

Zonax

What recourse do we currently have? I have a situation where someone reverse engineered one of my products exactly - even down to the shape and textures. The <insert expletive> perpetrator even had the gall to sell it in the same store as my product. I have asked him to remove it and I have asked the store owner to remedy this. I assume if I ask a Linden to help they will point at the DMCA and tell me to hire a lawyer.

So, I literally spend hundreds of hours building a system only to have this bottom feeder come in and start scooping up profits. Mind you the individual product in question is fairly simple, but still is a part of the overall system and sells quite well.

Once again, I find myself disincented to build anything new. Anybody know a lawyer proficient in this type of thing that would do pro bono just to get in the press as the first lawyer to prosecute a virtual product copyright infringement? *just kidding*

I don't get all this outcry when someone does something similar, or even downright the same in Second Life.

Many years ago, McDonald's came along with the concept of the "Happy Meal". They took your standard burger and fries, and tossed them in a bag with a cheap-ass toy. Soon thereafter, Burger King had their "Kids' Meal", doing EXACTLY the same thing.

Is there something wrong with that? And if not, why should it be any different in SL?

- Ace

Mlah, of course there will always be copying and improving. Thats how things get better. Take any invention - no doubt its been modified from its original state by people other than the inventor. In SL, as in real life, often time the innovator gets screwed.... get people who take the invention and make it BETTER and reap the benefits... look at Xerox - they invented the computer "mouse" but abandoned it because they could not imagine anybody navigating outside the keyboard. Look at Zenith - they created the HDTV but Samsung (among other S. Korean and Japanese firms) improved upon its design while they went bankrupt.

Its all part of the process. If you don't invent because you think someone will steal your ideas you'll still end up with nothing in the end.

At least when you pioneer you have a shot at greatness.

Peace Out, A-Train,
Shepp dogg

Businesses modelled entirely on dwell are inherently flawed, which is why I have an incredibly difficult time comprehending why so many businesses are modelled around dwell. Dwell bonuses to any particular business can only get smaller as more people do more varied things, regardless of how well that particular business attracts and keeps people on their land.

This behavior wins over any increased overall dwell payment because innovation and creativity far outpace population growth. Dwelloper incentives are an exception to this rule because they are paid to only the highest X people, but even that only serves to reinforce the fact that dwell-based businesses are flawed since you have to stay on top or stop making money.

Use some creativity, people! There are many untapped markets in SL that most people seem unable to fathom. In fact, the SL Exchange has plans to give a boost to people who are interested in starting new and innovative businesses within SL. You can expect to hear more about this in December.

The lack of original ideas are staggering as of late. However, sometimes the unique items that people have simply do not have a price on them. I've had certain things since beta that I still keep around. I only know of one thing that hasn't been replicated.

I still try and think of ways to be original, but its gets harder and harder now with a big world. I can't be spending my time in going out to see what everyone else has done. If it's out there I usually ask instead of doing it myself.

If even as small as what my little inventory has is a contributor to big ideas and original builds, then I've done my part.

hehe, i'm one of those people. building/scripting in sl IS the game to me. it's what I play it to do. I don't care about making tons of money (I do make a little), and I'm not social. So, not having a ton of money, and enjoying building things if I see something I like (barring clothing) I usually go make one of my own.

That said, I don't sell everything I make. For instance I made some turrets and sold one or two and then decided it was a bad idea (griefing, tech support, sim lag... Oh My!). I make planes, but I think I have helped moved the flying vehicle tech along so I won't apologise for seeing something with wings and saying, "phht, I could do that easy". I saw the carbon rod x-flight thing and made my own flight assist script and wings, which I do sell.

I love original ideas. However being original is not always possible, or even desireable. If someone made a car, and everyone else decided to play nice and not compete where would that get us? An expensive car that doesn't work very well.

Before you rebut, I do understand what you're saying. Even agree . It's good to support creators, but I would suggest supporting the best one, not the first one. And if you want to make your own for your personal use, or improve and make a profit. Go for it. More creators enhances the game, even if some of them have no morals. That is just good competition.

I think what your looking at IS nothing more than part of the simulation, Because the SL world is full of REAL people, REAL ideas, and not just a bunch of npc's, your going to have all of the real people type problems, and all of the real people type rewards.

Someone who makes a copy of something and profits from it normally does make it better, weather it be the functionality, looks, or simply advertisement.




Yes imagine if you could not see the number of prims on that coffee table that your buying for your home on your 512m2 plot. Chances are you would be more reluctant to buy things based on there looks, because you would half to assume, the better the looks the more prims it must be.

And if someone does take your "model train" or whatever, and make a better version of it, instead of taking offense, take that as a complement. And then complement them by making an EVEN BETTER version of there improvements on your original idea.

In other words, if you make anything at all, expect someone to like your idea and copy it or improve on it. All that means is someone set the bar higher, so instead of looking at how high the bar is, Try to see how high you can jump over it.

All people in SL will greatly benifet from this attatude, and so will you and your "compatition".


The one thing that I can not stand is People playing with the value of the L$.
If I make something that sells for 2k and someone else comes alone ang reproduces my idea with some added bells, or stabilaty, Thats great, but at least sell it for 2k or more.
Dont Improve on an idea AND drop the price to something like L500, because all you have done is destroyed the market for that idea, It used to be worth something, but now its just another item and nothing more.

You need to add up your time spent and ask yourselfe what it is worth. If you worked on a brand new idea and spent 16 hours total on it, " L$ 500 == ~2.50 US ".
Is 15 cents an hour worth your time? Even if you wernt the original person that came up with the "idea". Especially scripters, Ive seen some scripts in SL that if they were real world programs would sell for quite a bit of Real USD. Yet in SL for some reason ppl have the mindset that are worthless.

Also when you make something regardless if you have competition or not, please realize you are never done with whatever it is. You need to always improve on it, If nobody else is challenging you to do so you need to challenge yourself.
What if that coffee table can be only 1 prim, and it probably can. Someone just needs to figure out how.


Ideas under development by LordJason Kiesler

Roller coaster
Bingo <--- trying to make it better yet.
A stats based fighting system.
Conversation script, as in a basic convo AI,
And ive thought about a model train with linkable track sections as I built a roller coaster, but Ill leave that one alone.

There is good and bad to both sides, I agree.

Its like say...someone builds a house and makes a town of them uses some nice textures. One person sees this says how good it is and within the next 2 or 3 days all of thier structures are almost identical and using almost all the same textures as you did.

And sure thats just one of a few examples from around SL.

There are Malls all over SL.. Depending who you are and what you do you may sell stuff in one. Or have at least shopped in one. People know these are popular. Now there are several types. Huge Box with stalls. A huge box with vendors strewn about.. Some nice ones with a theme maybe mixed in. But Nooooo some have to add a Club and Casino ontop of that.

ClubMallSinos way of the future. hehehe.

But who knows right. With each new feature something new usually comes out.
Its still what drives people to do some of this stuff that astounds me. Is a few $$ really worth it?

There is more ways to be a griefer than to shoot someone and annoy people.