Disappointment with Teen Town Hall Answers

Well... lot of valid points here, and some not so valid, but still.

The only solution i see to keep every one happy, is checking uploaded images befor they can be used, now sadly this would slow a lot of things down and make more work for the lindens but it does solve a lot of the concerns that people may have.

just my 2p

A lawsuit is least of my worries and should be yours too ryen. The kid that gets hurt is what I am most concerned about... dispute that!

I will do it. lol i volunteer to sit on my ass and get paid to watch a que of uploads

To take your logic farther, your kids can't come into contact with pedophiles if you don't ever let them go outside, answer the phone, get online in any way, go to church, and on and on and on. You're being alarmist in the extreme, and not altogether rational.

Actually that might not be such a bad idea. How many of you would volunteer some of yopur time to help make kiddie SL safe? I know I would.

Who wouldn't? a nice cushy job... until something slips by and then you are looking for another cushy job....

Curious tho, you put "volunteer" and "get paid" in the same line =P

A lot of good points raised here, that we are thinking about long and hard. We want kids to be safe -- it's a paramount concern. We've been looking at Whyville as an example of a large community for teens, which is noted for the precautions they've taken. Yes it's all girls, but there are a couple of things they do that we can learn from. For example, they have a 911 number so that any kid who feels uncomfortable can get immediate help. We're implementing something similar, so that any teen who feels that content or the chat of another av is inappropriate can call for immediate, live support. The liaisons who will respond are being chosen because they are parents or they've worked with teens. We may also decide to let parents and teachers in the grid at some future date (with confirmation), but initially the grid will be just for the kids.

Cris - I didn't mean to be evasive or sarcastic in my responses, and as it came across that way I apologize. We could implement a system like the one There has where all content is vetted before being allowed to be posted. However that would enormously slow down the building and creative process and seems like overly harsh policing. It will be made very clear that pornographic materials are not allowed on the grid, and we will rely on abuse reporting and liaison supervision to make sure if someone does violate the rules the content is removed immediately and the person who uploaded it disciplined.

There is a lot more to respond to, and I'll post again later. But I wanted to at least let you know we're listening and trying to address your concerns.

There is one remedy for all of the problems, responsible parenting. Take the pc, laptop, stereo and television out of the childs room. Replace the said items with a bookshelf, reading table and lamp. After that watch what the child is doing, allow limited access to the media and stop holding everyone else accountable for the manner in which children are raised.

The internet will not cause a child to become a porn freak but a child with unsupervised access to media will seek out the taboo. This is the parents fault. I should not have to surf a disneyfied web and hold nickelodian conversations just because some parents want the whole world to be child proofed so that they do not have to watch what little Johnny is up to. Why not wrap the kids in bubble wrap and pipe in the phrases "Genitals are perverted" "Sex is disgusting" "All adults are perverts, avoid them at all cost." The other option is to hold the parents fricken responsible for raising their children. This means they should know where their child is, who the child is with and what the child is doing. This means making sure that they know the difference between normal sexual behaviors and perversion.

Sorry but I will not own the irresponsible actions of modern parents. Would these parents who allow their children to surf the net and play online without supervision drop their children off downtown on the outskirts of the seedy area and expect the rest of the world to protect them? Hmm, I think not.

Though I do agree with Ferran's points. I don't really think anything should be passed between grids and I think that the money should be of a different denomination all together and upon transfer to the "adult grid" kid bucks can be exchanged for Lindens by LL.

I highly doubt most teenagers are stupid enough to fall for a pedophile.

Wait

nevermind.

Ok, most teens over 15.

This can't be said enuff! ^_^;;

thats because AOL does not monitor the content of the conversations. If they did it would make them liable for any thing that is said in those conversations.

I have to comment on this Ryen. I do not think that you were intentionally implying this but teenage victims of abuse are NOT "stupid" for falling prey to pedophiles. I do not think that you purposefully painted them in such light but it needs to be said that they are completely innocent. ALL of the fault lies with the sicko perv pedophile.

Oh, for pete's sake, all they need to do is offer a $20L reward to anyone who reports porn in teen SL. As long as they keep the bounty hunters anonymous, the porn will disappear rather quickly, at least any porn that is visible to somone other than the owner.

As for pedophiles, I'm sure undercover law enforcement will be all over this thing in no time.

Teens can police themselves, with a little encentive.

Now, the unauthorized credit card charges are another problem. Parents should be e-mailed before land tiers are raised and so on.

Yes, and there won't be any pedophiles in SL if SL didn't exist either.

Go to the Alphaville HErald, and look up the "fantasy slave market" article... it's a few days back. You can't miss it. It's disgusting, it's happening in SL, and we're all ignoring it because WE MUST SAVE THE CHILDREN RARGWSUITGHSDG!

LF

CyberTipline

Unsolicited Obscene Material Sent to a Child
It is an unfortunate reality of the Internet that children will encounter obscene material online. Many times this material is attached as an image(s) or hyperlink(s) sent to a child in an unsolicited E-mail or "spam."
To combat this problem NCMEC takes reports of unsolicited obscene material sent to a child. It is a violation of criminal law for any person to knowingly or attempt to send or transfer obscene material to another individual who has not attained the age of 16 years (18 U.S.C.A. 1470).

Please report any incidents where a child may have received visual depictions of persons engaging in sexually explicit conduct that is obscene.

If you are an adult who is concerned about adult obscenity not involving children on the Internet, please make a report to www.obscenitycrimes.org.

Good points Barbara - especially re: parents receiving eMail notifications....

Will be interesting to see how this is implemented.

That's a fantastic idea. You could even put posters up around the world...

"$L50 reward for the apprehension and removal of any inappropriate content. Send a message to the nearest Linden for more information!"

Ta-da, instant self-regulation. Kids love spending money, after all.

I actually think the pedophile thing is being WAY overblown. Are you really expecting 500 pedophiles to bust down the door of the teen grid first thing, camp out in the newbie area, and lure kiddies away? What are you, daft?

I'm not a psychologist, but if I had to take a random stab, I would say that the reason pedophiles are so successful online is because it's "their" turf. They know how chat rooms work better than kids (sometimes), they know how to exploit trust on the internet, they can seem more imposing and use social pressure to pry information from kids, and all that.

However, in SL, with its harder-than-normal learning curve, you're going to have these totally enamored teens who are absolutely in love with the interface, and the world. They'll know everything about the teen grid inside and out. If there was a strategy guide for SL, they'd buy it.

THe pedophile, or would-be-pedophile, on the other hand, is obviously just looking for sex, and as such isn't going to spend as much time combing over the interface or the world.

The result? They're going to stick out like a sore thumb. And if they try anything fresh? The pedophile is now on the "teens" turf, with their excellent knowledge of the interface, the world, and its social dynamics. It would be reverse social pressure. Besides, look how many pushguns there are in SL now, and multiply it by ten.

Furthermore, if LLabs puts large disclaimers all over the place, with the standard legal boilerplate (never tell your password or any personal information to ANYONE EVER except to a person with "Linden" as their last name, etc.), they will be readily absolved of most legal responsibility, thus saving them from time consuming litigation from sue-happy, negligent parents.

LF

If you are going to do it, which it looks like LL is going to do, I like that idea too. Some kid will have a nice business keeping teeny SL clean. Looks to me like that would help some.

I would trump up a big ole reward for pedophiles that are uncovered and turned into the police. Give a big enough reward, say $1000.00 US and pedophiles might be too afraid they are being set up to try anything. Make teeny SL a very unsafe environment and they might go elsewhere. Maybe all of us SL residents could pitch in to pay the rewards. Now that would be good press!

I like those ideas!

Hense my quote.

It seems to me, make textures limited, or an approval process before they can be uploaded, and 95% of everyones concerns from those who view this as a con, would be wiped away.

I say give them a nice big library of textures that can be used and most the porn will be wiped out. THen the worst they can do is build porn-like builds with prims and I really dont view that as a terrible thing. The human body itself is not a dangerous thing.

Billy already commented on this, but I will add to it. A child who is preyed upon by a pedophile is not stupid. Pedophiles tend to target certain types of children and ingratiate themselves into their lives. For children, it is about them wanting acceptance and understanding, and a pedophile plays upon that fact and siezes an opportunity. Many children, not wanting to upset or disappoint that person will go along with things they really don't understand the implications of until it is too late.

Yes, most children are probably savvy enough to avoid the classic dirty old man, but it becomes much more complicated when it is a relative, a teacher, or someone who doesn't give off the stereotype of what a pedophile is. That is why the problem is so pervasive, and the children are not the ones at fault for being trusting - nor are they stupid.

Excellent ideas as usual. You hit things on the nail, Barbarra.

I am going to repeat something I posted before:
I have no problem with teens having cybersex ... most of them aren't cybervirgins anymore anyway. And I myself lost my (real) virginity when I was 16.

And anyway they're going to do it whether we think it's ok or not. Pedophiles could prove to be a problem; however since they're on childrens' and teenagers' chat rooms anyway, what on earth could we do to prevent them? Besides, that's LL's problem.

No one is saying that pedophiles on TeenSL is ok, but it is such a specific issue that the only way to prevent that sort of thing is to either A) Trust that LL's on it, or B) make lots of noise to LL to get them on it. Just because it MIGHT happen doesn't mean that they should scrap the whole idea.

Everyone is worried that some kid's parents is going to spy them flirting or having cybersex or whatever, sue LL, bankrupt/destroy them, and then there will be no SL anymore. LL would be nuts to not consider this and I am sure they are taking every precaution. So what on earth is the big deal?

I think a large part of why we are so preoccupied with "petaphiles" is in response to Catherine Cotton's insistence on the topic being discussed. BACK OFF, HANDS OFF! Half of us don't even have kids ANYWAY. And you, parents! You figure out what you want to do with YOUR kids. And of course you can't make a real decision NOW, since the teen grid isn't even up yet.

It ain't our problem yet. Sheesh.

(I admit I haven't read the entire thread, so if this has been said before, sorry about that.) I think something unfortunate that is going on here is that teenagers (especially males) here are being discredited specifically by the bad things they have the potential to do, and yet aren't being credited at all for all the good things they are capable of. Also, I just want to add one tidbit, that "Males are biologically more mature, that is a fact" is not a fact, it is a theory, and if you believe in social constructivism, then you believe instead that "Males are taught to be less mature, that is a fact" and in an environment like Teen Second Life, there's probably as much opportunity for males there to be taught to be bad in the same way that there's opportunity for males in regular Second Life to be taught to be bad. Wow, this post feels long-winded already. I'm finished, carry on.

Robin,

Thank you for your post, it was the clarification I was looking for I am not opposed to the teen grid at all, I just have some concerns about it, as others do. I think handled responsibly, it does have the potential to be an amazing outlet for the creative energies of teenagers. At the same time, there are some very clear dangers and special challenges that arise in dealing with that age group. Hell, the 18+ group is complicated enough. I trust that you will do the right things with the service, but it is more important with the teen grid than with the adult one that you get certain things right straight out of the gate. I look forward to seeing what becomes of the service, and I know that keeping these children as safe as you possibly can in this environment is very important to you.

Two quick points:

1. If parents or teacher/mentor-types are permitted onto the grid, they should be marked out clearly, have to wear a t-shirt or a sign over their head. Whatever gaffe is chosen, it should not only distinguish them, but also perhaps a little goofy, set them apart, a stranger-in-a-strange-land. This should serve first to clearly identify the adults, but also to tie the teens more closely to the grid. After all, it's THEIR grid, and the idea should be that the other person is there on a sort of visitor-pass. I remember previously, when the idea was tossed around about allowing youngsters on the main grid, using a similar sort of gaffe like making them all wear backpacks or something, or limiting them to child-type avs. Something of the reverse should be used IF adults are permitted on the new grid. It also goes without saying that any adult visitors should be vetted by the Lindens first.

2. ANY estimate on how soon this will arrive? I've a little cousin that this would make a great Christmas present for, even if this is one of those "It'll be here in a month or two" types of presents. Also, is there any way to buy a membership for one person (on a CC# of mine), but designate the account so that any future purchases will have to be paid for by the kid's parents?


Despite any of the concerns that have been voiced over this, I think this will be a great thing, and I believe enough in Linden Labs to subscribe a family member to it.