More open-source metaverses...?

By mere chance, I stumbled across the Virtual Universe. It seems to be something very similar to the Open Source Metaverse Project, as it features in-world editing in a collaborative environment, programmed (and animated) objects, and lots of cool things like writing text on surfaces

There are no prims, but meshes, and the world is not "limited" in terms either of prims, or on world size - but only on CPU power of the servers. You can download both the client and the server software for free.

The snapshots, however, are very disappointing. They're truly poor, and the avatars look like SL prim statues Also, the fact that it runs on a Java machine makes me wonder on how fast it really is at rendering. Again, the snapshots show mostly simple elements, floating balls, one building or another with some primitive shading (or is it just a texture?). And the fact that there are just 87 registered users at their forums (where I tried to ask a question...) shows the "dimension" of this "virtual universe"...

Still, I'm always eager to listen to unbiased opinions, so I'd like to ask if any of you have tried this VU thingie and can report a bit on what it looks like.

Thanks a lot!

- Gwyn

The problem with an open source competitor is lack of economy.

How do you enforce IP protection. I can not think of a way, can you?

I guess we could just rely on basic copyright enforcement, but then we lose our mini-transactions.

I've been following VU for quite awhile now, and even owned a world for abit. (still got the world key somewhere).

VU is free - but it is not opensource. Not for now, anyway.

Its designed mostly after Active Worlds, the system that can be called "SecondLife in the 90's" in a way. Its very primitive compared to SL, lacking physics, real scripting, and many other goodies SL made us take for granted.

Its an intresting attempt with some good ideas, but overall the system architecture is ancient. I wouldnt say that the future of virtual enviroments would look like this.

I still say that you should give it a spin though - if only for the concepts, and to check out what can be done with Java. You will be impressed.

I would take Java over LSL anyday, even if we still had this 16K memory segment limit.

Eggy beat y'all to OSMP anyhoo
Eggy's Profile

I've been thinking about that problem, and I feel it's solvable:
1) There are three types of software: clients to access the system, servers to run sims, and asset servers to keep track of copy-protected objects.
2) Assets (objects, textures, scripts, etc) are stored in a number of locations. Those created by a user, or those in the public domain, are stored on the user's computer. Those with copy limits are either stored as encrypted data on the client, or stored on the creator's asset server.
3) Assets are only loaded onto servers that are trusted not to make unwanted copies of objects. If a creator of protected content doesn't trust a server operator not to copy his content, he doesn't allow that person's servers to load things he's made. Similarly, if a user doesn't trust a server not to copy his stuff, he either doesn't connect to it, or doesn't upload anything to it.
4) Account balances are stored on each server. Money from one server cannot be directly transferred to another server unless the operators of each server trust each other. Systems like the Gaming Open Market can be used for indirect transfers.

Uh, yeah, I'm supposed to be the leader of OSMP, you know
OSMP is mostly Azelda Garcia's work, mine, and Jack Digeridoo's.

Someone correct me if I am wrong.

If I read this other virtual world correctly, you can run a server on your computer and others can log in. Well there is a massive problem with this. Comcast has a rule that says NO SERVER SOFTWARE. You cannot be a server, you cannot host other computers over their ISP. Probably due to the load and bandwidth. So if I understand correctly, a great deal of the nation will not be allowed to host their own Virtual World via this other primitive company.

Not sure how it is in Europe but they need to put a warning to check with your ISP before you host. about 90% of the nation will either find out they cannot do it or that they will have to switch to a business account which is extremely expensive.

And like I said, correct me if I am wrong about this or have misunderstood. Either way, I am sticking with Second Life, the best virtual world in the metaverse

Edit: When I say comcast does not allow server software, I am speaking of their residental account. I believe they offer a business account that will let you host other computers but it is extremely expensive.

Well comcast sucks, I can do whatever I want with my internet connection and that is the norm around here.

Let's mod this to off topic. This has nothing to do with SL.

Carnildo, I think you have excellent ideas - but, unlike blaze, I think that things would be much easier

After all, even nowadays, people put up web servers and other people rent space from them. In some cases, you know the company behind the web server. In most, you don't. You have to trust them to respect the privacy of your files. But the truth is, a web hosting provider could be as anonymous as an SL resident - you may think you're dealing with an US company just because they have a PO box in California, but these assumptions are not so easy to verify IRL. Although, of course, you can certainly trust some of the Big Names in the Internet industry, and thus, if you're really concerned about IP, you'll host with them instead.

As to the economy, your solution would work very well, although it would be much more a "balkanization" of currencies - every server having its own, and it would be much harder to get a "working economy" than under the model of Second Life. The truth is, it would probably make much more sense to have no economy at all - everybody would resort to RL transactions.

Anyway, thanks for your input on VU, CrystalShard! Eggy is reading his thread, so I won't repeat many of my personal opinions (which may very well be wrong, anyway). What I see in terms of Virtual Realities still seems to fit into the "early development stages". On the other hand, I liked the VU approach: a company backing it up (like LL), but giving out the server software for free, so you can host your own servers - although completely isolated from the rest of the virtual world. Hmm. You said that VU was not fully open source. VU die-hards in their forums say that it is. I wonder which parts are open source, and which aren't. A proprietary solution is not interesting to me - we already have SL for that!! Well, at least, until LL reviews their ideas on the "open sourcing"/"licensing" part - I expect it will happen this year, but I don't know to which extent. And yes, ActiveWorlds isn't attractive any more, we need something new

I do partially agree with you, blaze Comparing virtual reality technology to Second Life is only partially about Second Life. However, off-topic is really - not having anything to do with Second Life at all And since Second Life is a virtual reality, and my interest is in comparing SL's technologies with other available solutions, I posted it in the General forums instead. Sorry if I did it wrongly.

Not really, Eggy, not really...

Are you sure about what you're saying? Most Portuguese ISPs won't allow you to host a server in your home (that's written on their contract with you), with a residential-type of connection, at least. However, you may argue that, if they take you to court on that, and if you have an excellent lawyer, you may be able to prove the inconstitutionality of such an "contract", and, thus, be able to continue to do "whatever you want" with your service. I wouldn't risk doing that, though - the ISPs have some of the best telecom lawyers in the country

And yes, now this is completely off-topic!!

The languages in which the server and client are written are in principle unrelated to the language used for user scripting. The SL server and client ends certainly aren't written in LSL.

Expanding the grid by simply adding more and more servers will eventually make SL to confusing to use. Atm it is managable, but who here has visited every sim? or can honestly say they know where every sim is? When a friend IMs you and says "I'm in ****, come see what I've just made..." you generally have to get an instant TP. This will get worse as the grid grows.

LL needs to start looking at additional co-los, maybe even in seperate parts of the world, each with it's own seperate grid but joined by portals, say, at the welcome areas. You walk from one grid to the next by stepping through the portal. They could have a cutie wormhole type animation as you "travel" from one grid to the next to give a sense of actually going somewhere. Obviously your inventry would travel with you and not be tied to any one grid...

Each grid would have it's own name. (Did we ever decide on a name for the current grid?) Companies seperate to LL would own their own grids, but all would be interconected via the portals.

Eventually Micro$oft will embed the server and browser software into their latest version of windows. Your word documents will not be shown in a file list but as a stack of paper on a virtual desk in a virtual office. You will zoom into a piece of 'prim paper' and type directly onto it. When you're done you'll drag it onto a 'prim printer' on your 'prim desk' and it'll come out of your RL printer, or someone elses RL printer...

File sharing/baring will be a case of locking the door to your virtual office...

THIS is the future of the 3D internet. Whether it comes about from SecondLife or some other VR system is open to debate.

I'm on Comcast residential - have no choice where I live. It's not terribly bad - 3.2 downstream for what we pay isn't so bad - although I hate feeding a monster like them with all my being. I have run a NWN world here and have hosted RTCW many times. Comcast has never said a word to me. I HIGHLY doubt they actually monitor that. It's probably a scare tactic, I know we do things like that in the business I am which depends on having good bandwidth for some of our equipment.

Thank you for sharing your nightmare with us, Surina. ...

Everything I wrote in the 'nightmare' post has already happened in 2D form for the WWW and PCs.

SecondLife is simply the transition to the 3D version...

How very wrong you are.

What Linden Labs has done here is very admirable and so far ahead of its time it's almost not true, BUT - others are starting to catch on - most notably the dreaded Microsoft.

This IS the future of the internet, as the $8.000000 investment in SL quite clearly indicates, and in many ways SL customers are pioneers.How long LL stay at the top of this tree is debatable though because as many people have pointed out unless they move to open source this project is going to be dead in the water.

Open source is not the solution. Open standards is.

If the network protocols used by SL were available to other developers then we would see a growth in SL compatable products...

Spoken like a true Microsoftie.

The European Commission begs to differ, because they've seen the perversion of "open standards" with embrace-and-extend before. Open standards are only helpful when the heart is in the right place.

Which ones? I did read my contract before signing it, and they mentioned no restrictions with regards to running servers or otherwise. I have to admit I havent read EVERY contract for EVERY ISP here, but I dont know anyone who has ever had any problem running servers, whereas in america and australia there are plenty of people who get ports blocked, nasty letters complaining about their "above average" internet usage.
The whole point of having METERED bandwidth is that you can have the freedom to saturate the lines as much as you want, as long as you're willing to pay for it.
Heck, I've paid as much as 100 euros in extra bandwidth fees. Gotta love SL.
American companies like to advertise themselves as UNLIMITED, when in reality they use all sorts of opressive tactics to LIMIT high-volume users, and even cancel their service. It's a stupid business model, prone to generating "tragedy of the commons" situations.

And the European commision wants us to have straight bananas because they're easier to pack. That doesn't mean they're right or that they'll get their way.

Wait a minute... didn't cucumbers use to be curved?

Yes, but that was a long time ago. Currently they are distorted into a capital 'M'.

Just wanted to note... both Virtual Universe and Active Worlds allow you to run your own world servers on your own PC, thats true, and I did that.

... however, both Virtual Universe and Active Worlds also offer you the service of hosting your world at thier place, for a fee.

Now thats a business plan. o.o

(note: VU will host your world for free for now)