er, pardon my ignorance...

But reading the "attn: lifers" poll,. there seems to be a LOT of lifers who just don't like the changes.

Why?

LF

I'm warming up to it as I learn more but here's the part I don't like, and I suspect it's the same for many others who aren't completely happy about it...

For a some people 1.2 will likely mean having to give up land and objects that they rightfully earned under the old system or having to pay real money to keep it. And it's stuff they've probably worked hard in game to earn and support. So essentially some people are being told "you've been too successful so we need to take some of your stuff and give it to other people." Totally understandable from LL's standpoint in terms of growing the game and best serving the most people, but a bitter pill for some who will have to take one for the team so to speak.

i agree with chip, that it will affect those ppl is unfortunate. i was pretty bitter over that myself last night, for neil and myself and quite a few other ppl.

but i have come around to another way of looking at it- this also forces those who have found sucess to work a little harder to keep it, forces them to innovate and adapt. i dont see that as a particularly bad thing.

I too am warming up to it... some things I'm still not exactly thrilled about still. But as more details come out it doesn't seem as bad.

I can say with extreme certainy though I will not buy anything for SL from eBay.

It seems rather communistic to take away from people who have worked hard to earn what they have. After looking at my various builds and land plots, I have determined that I will definitely need to decommission a lot of stuff.

In the 1.2 FAQ, it says, "Everyone benefits from the new plan!"

That just isn't true. For $15/month I get 2048 m^2 and 312.5 (313 I guess) primitives, total, in the whole world. I have more than three times that many prims in-world, and I have to sell stuff in order to support it all. If that isn't enough there are trivia contests I've developed. Seems none of that matters any more, though.

What really irks me is the fixed ratio of land to primitives. Say you have two neighbors, Siegfried and Roy, who both want the same amount of land, but do not want the same amount of prims. Siegfried wants to build a mansion, but Roy just wants a deck with a hot tub and maybe a waterfall and some trees. Siegfried can't build his mansion at the level of detail he wants, because he isn't getting enough prims. Roy is sitting around with prims to spare, because he isn't interested in having things like walls and roofs and doors and windows and so forth. So it is wasteful.

What I'd like to see is a way for Roy to sell some of his prim allocation to Siegfried. (For L$.) Perhaps even get some kind of exchange going.

Yep. I'm with ya. I'm not worried about how it will effect me and it's probably a good thing to have a fire lit under your ass now and then, hehe. My only quibbles are really just philosophical. I have little doubt that SL will still be every bit the coolest thing going. And I'm glad you're feeling better about it Neph

Huns - I strongly suspect that:
a) Prim allowance selling is already in the spec for 1.2
b) Or it'll be added shortly after due to major public outcry. It's too useful a feature (with the proposed prim allowance model) not too have.

..but Chip, don't forget that they will be allowing us to buy and maintain land using linden dollars - so those who have been very successful through business ventures will still have the option of using their high income to keep the large amounts of land should they wish.

It has not been fully explained how this will work, but a couple of Lindens have now explicitely stated that this will be permitted.

Wealthy players with a high weekly income will do fine therefore, but they will need to continue to work hard to keep it up though.

i believe phillip said one of the meetings that prim sharing wouldn't be functional at release but would be activated later. i still don't have any idea what they're doing with groups.

i'm philosophically opposed to this as well. if it were the real world i'd be making phone calls and hiring lobbies. but it's not. plus i really do think that they're gonna let us pay land taxes in L$ (i know they're not called taxes but they are) or RL$.

i'm still firmly grasp my newbie status and won't let it go. i admire you guys that've built such successful businesses and empires in world and know that you'll find a way to maintain them in the new environment. it's what you do.

I think it is a combination of (a) people who didn't read the announcement carefully the first time around, (b) people who misinterpreted parts of the announcement, and (c) parts of the announcement that were vague or omitted.

I bet a combination of (a) re-reads, (b) re-thinks, and (c) clarifications, will (have) calm(ed) things down.

(There seems to be a pattern in this respect to this and previous announcements. The company told users, at least during the beta, to prepare for constant changes. But it looks like human nature overrides such warnings.)

I swore I posted on this last night I must be out of it...

Lifer or not, I hate the idea of mixing RL$ in any way, whether into or out of the system. The day I have to worry about US$ in order to "survive" is the day I quit. Whether it is something like "can I afford to rez this prim?" or "is my SL business turning enough real life profits?". I'm here to play a game, not some digital new world order mumbo jumbo.

You certainly have that choice.

I think the problem is that for second life to evolve beyond a colorful chat room with SLopoly money, (extreme cynic view that I don't share, but to make a point), it will have to 'interface' with the real world.

For total escapists, I guess this is scary - so is moving out of your parents house. In the long run, there are benefits. If the end-goal was to have SecondLife stagnate, then changing nothing or incrementally in some ineffectual way that doesn't 'hurt' anyone won't help matters any.

We'll see how it pans out, I'm on the side for progress...(like you couldn't tell.)

Yeah, I wasn't sure that was the case at first but I was very relieved to hear that. I'm glad that people who don't want to or can't spend more money on SL can still expand and gain more resources if they work their butts off in world for it. That entrepeurial aspect of the game is what has always appealed to me the most. I feel like that dynamic will be dilluted a bit by letting people buy their way in. But for SL to thrive it really needs two things... good content and money. I know that people who just want to buy a bunch of land with USD will be every bit as beneficial to LL as content developers and if they help to ensure that our favorite virtual place has a long and healthy life then they'll be providing a benefit to all of us, just perhaps not in a way that's obvious in-world.

I just hope that newer players who are really happy about the changes will remember that for some people 1.2 will mean some sacrifice in the name of the greater good and not belittle that. Having said that... I'm glad that newer players will now have greater opportunity to prosper and express themselves. That can only be a good thing in the long run.

Khamon and Huns, yes, Philip mentioned a prim trading scheme to be activated but not right away. I was just reading the town meeting transcripts.

I'm a newer lifer so I'll benefit from the changes. Also, I think they'll be positive for the world overall. I can understand the feelings of those who will have to give up land, though.

I did not react negatively to the initial announcement. For one thing, I'm not a worrier by nature. Most of the time (not ALL the time, I know that, Malachi!) I tend to think things will all be ok. For another thing, I just can't get too worked up about SL.

Ok, also, I gathered from the town meeting transcripts that no one will be forced to worry about RL$.It'll be a matter of choice. I think that's a good thing. And can I just say again: Life isn't fair! You can't have everything you want! That's just how it is! Deal with it!

(Maxx, this is the first post I've seen of yours that hasn't mentioned mile-high pr0n! I miss that. It was, like, your schtick.)

Yes, that's good. That's why I've gone from "If I cancel now will I get charged for the lifetime I bought yesterday?" to just my usual cynicism. However, looking longterm and judging from what is being bandied about, it seems to me a very strong possibility that in the future real money is something that could become troubling. I'll just have to see how things play out.

Cienna, I'm glad you're waiting it out. I'd be sorry to see you go.

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Omg how is this fair. It's like saying "you hold the world record, so we're going to change the system so you have to do it all over again even though nobody beat the old record. And this time, it'll be harder to get."

Huns is on the money with that one.

My worst fear is the kind of play/player the opportunity to make RL money will attract. Just imagine if you could turn EQ plat into RL money * in game * (I am aware people are doing this illegally). People are going to try every scam under the sun to get their hands on the dough...not to mention the incentive for compulsive gaming (but I'm making MONEY doing it honey!!! The kids can wait!). It is distinctly possible that you will see a large influx of feverish players that have no interest in the community at all, but strictly in figuring out how to up their dwell and/or whatever other mechanism there is to get the bigger share of the money.

I still play a little EQ (very old and powerful toon). I mentioned this in guild chat...people laughed and said "holy cow...every 24/7 game lunatic is going to try to figure out how to beat that.".

And I look forward to the mile-high pr0n billboard strategies that v1.2 will afford. Coupled with a elevator that requires Lindenbucks to activate, and having the billboard height beyond the normal fly range, I can't lose!!

Ha! Thank you, Maxx!

Until someone invents a better flight belt or jetpack!

No, it's more like "everyone and their uncle is hitting the world record while leaving alot of people far behind, so we're going to change the record so not everyone gets the accolades."



Those feverish players will have to be either creative, persistently sneaky, or both. You can't just walk into SL and make a fortune. Most of the scammers I've known about get publically shamed and then booted from the game in no time flat.

If you're going to be a creative guy-for-profit, more power to you. It makes the game better.


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Yes, I'll spare them the extra braincells and give them a headsup: you gotta be creative to "play" SL. It's not a treadmill. You can't march in, guns a blazing and expect to have hordes of cash. It doesn't happen. The community won't allow it.

Mark my words, we are not going to fall into an EQ-mongloid feeding frenzy.

LF

But hasn't RL$ always been in the system?

There is direct relationship between resources a user consumes in-world and RL$.

(This is simplified to illustrate the point.) The box that a sim runs on costs RL$ to build and maintain, and the bandwidth required to serve them costs $ as well. Pre 1.2 the relationship between the resources a user consumed and the RL$ they paid was not equitable. 1.2 will fix this relationship. A user will pay for what they consume. All of the social users who have hardly any land/prims will not be paying RL$ for the massive builds of someone else.

For me this re-alignment makes sense for both Linden Lab and users. It also allows for the more casual user to participate at a lower cost.

The Rich will Rule the World!



Since I'm posting I might as well address this as well. My response is: Can't they dominate right now in 1.1??

Seriously, take a look at Ebay and IGE.com. Take a look at terranova.blogs.com and read through Julian Dibbel's posts. Visit Dibbel's blog Play Money . Unless Second Life is completely free money will and can always impact the virtual world.

Recipe for Domination in 1.1 (Money is no impediment and tongue is in cheek):

1. Open up multiple accounts (for stipend, mule, maximum ratings and cards) (this is against the TOS, so don't do this)
2. Buy successful in-world businesses with RL$ (Buy Chip Midnight's stores and current stock for $250. No? $500.)
3. Buy Linden$ using RL$. L$10,000 for $100. What's fair for you?
4. Host events and pay attending users RL$ for both ratings and cards.
5. Hire Baccarra with RL$ to do an event each week; on second thought -- hire Baccarra (or someone else) to be your exclusive events planner.
6. Get a script guru to create a dwell detector that detects people on your land. Pay those people $ by the hour.
7. Hire a small staff of scripters and builders to create wonderful things for the events; keep them exclusive (month contracts?)
8. Get into the gambling business but add RL$ incentives
9. Buy up a whole sim; $.20 a sq meter. Maybe open an amusement park to compete with LindenWorld. Buy up old rides/games from LW.
10. Pay people to wear your tshirts or other items with your branding.
11. Recruit newbies. Hire your own mentors. Be a philanthropist.
12. Mr Roark has nothing on you. With your talented staff, create complete in-world fantasies for those who can afford it. Fantasies include creation of custom avatars (your high school sweetheart?) and complete sets (your prom at the gym?) with hired actors so you can re-live those forgotten moments. Maybe you'll even battle the devil? (sad fantasy island reference...)
13. Open a bank and lend money (with interest of course).
14. RULE THE WORLD!

Anyway you get the idea . My point is there's nothing stopping someone right now.

Questions: Is this domination? Is it bad? Won't it still require someone who is creative and resourceful to make this happen? And if they aren't creative, won't it require the hiring of talented, creative people? Couldn't this be a good thing? Add an interesting dynamic to the world?

Will it breed competition? Will a ragtag group rise up to compete? Go underdogs. Will the competition for creative scripts/builds bloom into a renaissance?

Does it ruin your personal experience in SL?

Will it still be fun for you?


(hi it's me re-iterating that you should not do anything that is against the Terms of Service. Have a nice day)

Oh no! Did I just outline the destruction of Second Life in 13 easy steps???

My take on why oldsters got so upset about 1.2….

First, I want to chide the staff at Linden Labs. Although they are probably the most responsive providers I’ve deal with in two decades, they may have gotten so use to this fact themselves that they relied too much on the - usually successful - process of just putting it all out there for discussion where they could collect user comments. Unfortunately, they may have underestimated how often players have been burned by other companies who make large – and usually fatal - changes while giving only lip service to customer input. Lesson learned: even those who trust you most can be startled by large objects coming at them fast. Sometimes we need to cuddle a bit first

I confess that I was startled. And in my startlement, I managed to get quite angry when I read the very cryptic middle-of-the-night email telling me what wonderful new things had been decreed for Second Life. For my anger, I apologize. For my concern, I do not apologize.

Anyway, to the point of this posting: why did so many older players react so strongly to the announcement. Well, there are a few reasons why older players may tend to be more startled by 1.2. One reason is their high level of investment. Beyond the question of money paid, there is the matter of the long-term relationship between the player and the game. For some of us, this relationship has been going on long enough, and successfully enough, that we have grown different expectations than the newer users might have. At some point in any long-term relationship, a participant in a strong relationship becomes more interested in constancy, commitment, reliability and permanence than in the excitement, titillation, and hormonal wash that first attracted them. At some point, it’s less about potential and more about trust. And trust is a MUCH larger investment than attraction – one demanding a deeper level of communication.

Lifers, in particular, have committed deeply: commitment, loyalty, and a rather unconditional love. It wasn’t just money, Folks. (Though. remember, we paid what was – at the time – as much as you COULD pay. Many of us would have paid MORE.) What did we ask in return for our commitment? A long-tern relationship and a long range plan for growth. That’s about it. We pay for Lifetime, you commit to trying to be around that long and to growing something new for us. So, we keep a particular eye on things that look like trouble indicators. And, bless our naiveté, we FEEL like we have the right to be that nosey. Like we have a right to ask if there are reasons for large, quick (emergency?) movements in the plan. It doesn’t appear that this is the case, right now, but perhaps you can see why we asked the questions with such concern.

There are other reasons for the “Lifer Reaction.” Some of then have to do with the fact that many are the survivors of the beta test cycle. Some reasons have to do with the fact that many Lifers have played EVERY other game on the market and heard ALL the promises, and may be more sensitive to possible troubles when it comes to what might feel like their final home. Many of us are convinced that this is the only game of its kind in town. We can get a bit protective

At any rate, most of the oldsters (including myself) ended up doing what you’d expect from someone in such an invested relationship and with so much at stake, they beat the answers they needed out of the nearest Linden. (And I applaud the fact that there were Lindens to interrogate!) They asked the questions that went straight to the heart of what they worried about most – is there an emergency? Will this change our relationship? Have we abandoned the grand Social Experiment in favor of the Accounts Department? And when they got THOSE questions answered, they asked for as many facts as they could get. Then, they considered the whole package and began the process of integration.

For those of us who felt, in the interest of the many other positive changes in 1.2, that we could tolerate the changes to the principles and purposes we bought into more than half a year ago, we of course have made peace with 1.2 – complete with misgivings, but still dedicated nonetheless. Some of us are still making that decision, but I suspect they’ll get to the same spot soon.

Those who’ve submerged themselves most deeply into the relationship, and for whom it has been most successful, will have to make the hardest choices about their losses and how they perceive their future in a different Second Life with a different plan.

In the end, though, there is one attribute that the oldsters all share. They persevere. Most of us will be here to wave as you board a train out of town.

lol. Good luck! If I ever did that I'd hope that someone would come to my RL house and shoot me.