Equality my ass

<rant>

You know, the notion of an integrated society is just so much bullshit. Racial Equality is a fallacy - a convenient little flag to be waved by only a portion of the population to get special consideration as and when the need or opportunities arise, apparently.

How are we supposed to Work towards a multi-racial multi-cultural community and strive for equal treatment between persons irrespective of racial or ethnic background when the very authorities and organisations that are always ramming equality down our throats then insist on segregation?

You're probably wondering what the fuck I'm talking about, huh?

Well my local council just proudly announced to great fanfare their new Young Black Achievers Scheme.

And yet, it's not like the black kids are disadvantaged by comparison - because everyone works oh so hard to ensure they are treated just the same as everyone else. So... why? Why on earth should a local authority - or anyone else for that matter - be allowed to segregate the community like this and explicitly exclude the white kids? How is this not racial discrimination?

How far do you think I'd get if I put together a Young White Achievers Scheme? Or launching a White History Month in my town?

Can you guess some of the names I'd be called and the accusations that would be levelled against me if I did?

Do you think there will ever be a Music of White Origin Awards? Or a National Association of White Journalists? Or White Entertainment Television?

No. And it'd be quite preposterous if there was. So... why is it ok in reverse?

How very fucking hypocritical. Now I really should get my morning coffee, I guess.

</rant>

An interesting solution would be for everyone to call themselves black, and insist on the benefits every black or African association could give.

The usual defense they give for no "White History Month" is that they consider the other 11 months are for White History.

Well, when you can find a statistic in the U.S. that doesn't show a majority of white people receiving advantages in education, health care, insurance, bank loans, housing, business opportunities, and in the justice system, you go ahead and hold your White History Month.

How many African American Presidents has the U.S. had? How many Native American, Hispanic, Asian American, etc.? Of the total number of Congress people in this nation going back through American History, how many have been "minority" as compared to white?

How many pages in your American history books showed the great deeds of white men, and how many showed the great deeds of African Americans, Native Americans, Asian Americans, or women, for that matter?

Or, go pick up a history book used in the schools in your city now...not much has changed, has it? While you're at that school, tell me if it's inner city and if the majority of students are "minorities" and if that's because all the white people in that neighborhood moved out to the suburbs--then go to a suburban school and tell me who the majority is. That's called white flight, buddy, which is self-selective segregation.

The further out in the suburbs you get, the greater your support will be for White History Month, btw.

Re your rant about inequality in the US - can't really help you there, I'm afraid. I'm from the UK. So they're not 'my american history books'. In fact, I'm totally and blissfully ignorant of what might be in them.

In fact, I wasn't even aware America HAD a history

Fine, how many black House of Lords members are there?

Dunno! But perhaps there should be a Black House of Lords to sit alongside them. Ya know, just to make it 'fair'?

For that matter, I want to address the rampant racism across the world! The following countries also have extremely few or no black leaders:

Europe
China, Korea, Taiwan, and other areas of East Asia
Russia and former Soviet states
Australia
India

Further, the racism continues, with exclusion of East Asian leaders in the following areas:
Europe
Russia and former Soviet states
Australia
India
Africa

Widespread racism continues with the outright omission of Indian leaders in:
Europe
China, Korea, Taiwan, and other areas of East Asia
Russia and former Soviet states
Australia
Africa

There's also a whole slew of racism with exclusion of white leaders in:
China, Korea, Taiwan, and other areas of East Asia
India
Africa

I mean, seriously! We must eliminate such trivialities such as "cultural differences" and create a homogenius society of earth, with one collective mind operating on all people.

(end sarcasm)

America may have racism, but changing a society's mindset takes generations. A simple comparison to previous decades shows a whole lot of progress, and I think that's what really matters. You can't simply dictate social change; you have to remove blockades to it. If people want to discuss race matters, it should be done in specific terms about particular policies or conditions that exist.

I hear you Kritter. These days people are on such a huge racial guilt trip.
Equality isn't about granting privileges to an ethnic minority to compensate for any possible amount of discrimination, real or imagined. Equality is about ignoring the race of someone, because it just doesn't matter.
If you're part of an "opressed" minority and you want to get somewhere you're gonna have to learn how to fight for it the same way as everyone else does.

I guess I can't go along with saying "race doesn't matter" because I know it really does. Race comes along with a whole set of cultural values of that race which affects how we treat people of that race. Generalizing here, but where I come from we don't look people in the eyes because we are raised to believe that is disrespectful. If I go into a bank and ask for a loan and don't look the loan officer in the eye a whole set of cultural values of that bank officer comes into play, and I may not get the loan. Was that based on my race? Possibly not overtly, but indirectly, sure.

As far as "getting somewhere", I guess you'd have to define "somewhere" for me. Is that an American "somewhere", and what does that mean--two cars, a house in the suburbs, four tv's and a vacation home in Wisconsin?

Race is not a problem for people of a majority culture until it seems like they might not "get something" because they are of the majority culture. Equality comes when we afford people of a minority culture the opportunities to achieve the same success we have enjoyed simply because of our skin color. Acknowledging that we have privilege based on our skin color is something that is very hard for white people to do.

Whelp, I'm not white, I'm not american, and I can't be blamed for the crap state of your country
I don't immediately associate a skin tone with a set of cultural values, WTF?
I don't think I even HAVE any "cultural values" for crying out loud
How on earth does a child's upbringing differ in a white or black family? Aren't we all taught the same "good" versus "evil" tripe? Come on.
Moral values are mostly based on religion, and the three major religions in the western world seem more or less interchangeable to my (admitedly atheist) eye.

How does this make descrimination against whites fair?

All these things given to minorities are done so because they're minorites. It's simply a case of racism in reverse. Instead of racism against "minorities", it's racism against "majorities". But you can't ever say that 'cuz, shh, you'll be racist.

The key to fixing this is true equality. No handouts. No special treatment. Nothing. For anyone. However, what people fail to realize is that this isn't going to make everything 50/50 black/white (or further reduced for more races). There will be times where there's more people with one skin pigmentation doing something just like there'll be other times where there's more people with another skin pigmentation doing something.

I remember hearing of a case of an African-American boy being denied entry into a contest held at his school specificly for African-American students. Why? Because his skin wasn't dark enough. Now can you honestly say this isn't going a bit too far?

Equality is not similar numbers, equality is equal treatment. Nothing more, nothing less.

For most whites (and other races) in America, it took several generations to achieve this.

Our country is on the verge of having hispanics as the largest ethnic group. What will happen then? Will all the discrimination laws then cease? Will people complain about hispanic oppression?

I realize I can only guage from personal experience, but observations:

Regardless of race, people of lower economic classes and less education tend to have a higher percentage of racists.

I'd be hard-pressed to think of any educated person of any race who is racist.

The most racially-tolerant racial group, in my observations, seems to be races from Asia major - India, Pakistan, etc. I would be hard pressed to think of ever recalling a racial comment about any race from an Asian person. Ironically (or not) - they are the peoples with fairly medium skintones.

I've also witnessed a fierce internal racism between different hispanic groups, but again - from what I've seen it's still a lower-class thing.

These are just my observations - a snapshot of me, living in New Jersey - which is a fairly socially liberal state.

...

On the flip-side, I think there is definitely is a "defend your own" mentality with most - if not all - races. While there might not be an outright malice to other races, there may be a preference for similarity.

Kris,

You know, after I had read your first couple of paragraphs I somehow *knew* that your posting would be a complaint (I resisted the urge to call it a whine) about black people getting some kind of advantage.

It always amuses me to hear disgruntled whites complaining about some relatively insignificant advantage given to the under-classes.

It's not about merely being advantaged or disadvantaged. It's about constantly bleating "equality! equality! equality!" and then hypocritically stacking the odds in your favour or taking advantage when the odds are stacked for you.

As per my original post - why should white kids be excluded from this scheme? Why isn't this a Young Achiever Scheme? They don't have one that the rest of the kids can even enter... they ONLY have a Young Black Achiever Scheme. How is that equality? I just don't see that we'll ever have equality all the while communities are being segregated by colour like this by the very people that insist we're all the same.

Of course you'd disagree Selador; you're a local councillor. Your lot are probably just as hypocritical

Edit: Btw, if, as you say, all blacks are an 'under-class' then I guess there is no racial equality, my point is moot and they should take any and all advantages offered to drag them out of their under-class. So I digress!

I suppose they could open up the award to be "The young black and piss poor white kid achiever award". Then it would maybe include both racial and class issues in one award.

I think that history will reveal this sort of attempt by the upper/ruling classes to achieve some sort of political correctness (in order to gain votes from the targeted group no doubt) will only result in failure. Its an issue of culture more then assimulation and proves to be over the centuries. We can steal a races culture - then shout equality with the idea that guiding them away from their culture confusion toward a higher cultural ground will make it all better for everyone --> the carrot being equality --> the desired result being absorption into the mass --> the controlled mass.

People may even desire that form of equality. I dunno though - I have always wanted something different and can only imagine that others - regardless of color/sex what have you - have that longing too. So, consider yourselves lucky that ya aren't being targeted for 'equality' - imagine being a kid having to deal with all of that all at once. Kind of makes ya feel a bit more schizo then normal or necessary.

To early... why I am thinking so soon. sigh.

I figure I'm lucky...
My parents gave me no preconceived notions about race when I was a kid. They treated all my friends the same, treated all my boyfriends the same. I grew up in a school system that had people from all walks of life - kids formed the normal cliques but all were well mixed groups.

My wakeup call was when some older teen accused me of racism (I was 22) because I wouldn't date him. He didn't quite understand that he was a. an idiot b. too young and c. I already was dating someone. I brushed it off, but it did make my hyperaware of anything I might or did say, and unnecessarily I think too.

I grew up in a town that had middle income and upper middle income people of all groups, most did not inherit but earned their money the hard way - working for it. Years later as my brothers grew up, I saw these same families, but they had kids and those kids are the ones ranting and raving that the world is racist, and from what I can understand, it's because they have to work, like their parents, to make something of themselves in this world instead of things handed to them. It is my own fault if I miss an opportunity or don't take the time and effort needed to achieve a goal.

Too many people, and this is not group specific, think that they deserve something for nothing. I wasn't handed anything special by the government or from people around me and I don't expect them to. And as far as opportunities go, there are so many out there for people of all colors and all walks of like, you yourself are responsible for finding out about them and persuing them, no one else.

I'm not a Family Guy fan.. but there is one episode where his friend goes to a black empowerment meeting, and one guy stands up and talks about the reparations his family received from the white family whose ancestors enslaved his ancestors. They gave them rice crispy treats as reparations because they were poor and much worse off then them. It reminded me that people and circumstances change - for everyone.

May I move to where you are, Eggy?

Take me too Eggy, I make a mean Caldo Verde.


Anyway, as a Little Lebowski Urban Achiever, I can say with full confidence that Ursa's comments and opinions on this and all other matters should be held in limbo until she figures out how to answer eve-mail and eve-conversations. Case Closed.

Ursa would LOVE to be able to answer Evemail etc but for the FACT that she cannot even access the EVEL EVE. I am having constant login issues ...not just me evidently, but not everyone either. I am currently unable to log into Eve *cries, whines, pulls hair

It thinks you're online the whole time, Ursa. I hit on you for over 3 hours before I realized you weren't there*. I read that there is a connectivity issue affecting a small minority** of people and they will have that fixed during scheduled downtime Thursday evening.

Taco

* Usually when hitting on somebody, after about 2.5 hours they usually get fed up and tell me to beat it.

** I'm a small minority

I'm not white, or black. I'm kinda pinkish, myself.



Racism is ridiculous.

P2

Economic disparity is a major hurdle. If you saw what goes down in the less advantaged areas, you would see how hard it is to break out seeing as how they don't actually have any history books at all.

Black history month, achievement awards aimed at minorities, etc are ways of trying to correct years of imbalance. History books DON'T have a lot of history about black people. The other 11 months of the year, all we hear about is white people. We have holidays devoted to lots of white people. We have one day devoted to a black person and there are still states that don't celebrate ML King day. Is it so bad then to say that for one month out of the year that we might hear about the deeds and history of black people? It might be not fair to you to have this council make a black achievement award or whatever but when you look at statistics, a greater proportion of black people are poor. Is it so bad to have this award then?

I can understand you think you are being discriminated against, but I kind of doubt that you really are. Furthermore, bitching about this here won't do you a lick of good. If you feel you have a valid grievance, your council or board or local attorney is who you ought to be talking to. Not bitching on a board for gamers.

If thats your understanding of my original post, then you clearly didnt understand it at all. That's ok. I often think I must have a writing comprehension problem - because I write sentences and ask questions that make perfect sense to me, but then people seem to respond like I said something entirely different and answer different questions. Ah well. I can but try

And btw, this is the Off Topic forum. And being a gamer doesn't automatically exempt you from an opinion on other issues. As you'll see from various threads like this all over the Off Topic forum.

Actually this is no longer quite true. Sure there may be a few holdback areas, but for the most part schools go to great pains to make sure everyone (not just blacks or whites, and not just christians) are covered at all times of the year. Libraries are ordering more and more multicultural materials (I know, I work in two -college and public) to enhance everyone's experience.

As far as holidays go..

We have where I work:

New Year's Day - no person celebrated
Presidents' Day - Leaders of USA celebrated, yes they are white but that will change in the future
Martin Luther King, Jr Day - Celebrated black man
Good Friday - religious holiday
Memorial Day - a day to reflect on people dead from wars - all groups
4th of July - celebrates US independence, no specific person
Labor Day - celebrates all US workers (though many work it)
Columbus Day - Christopher Columbus, an Italian
Veterans Day - acknowledges the service men and women
Thanksgiving - a day of thanks, no specific person
Christmas - religious holiday - and many people say Jesus was black.


The United States honors only two men with federal holidays bearing their names. Christopher Columbus and Martin Luther King, Jr. So one white one black. 50/50 coverage.