How do you feel about affirmative action?

Right, and this is lovely in theory. In theory. In practice, you only advance one group through AA by holding back others who are equally or more deserving.

Public aid is a red herring in this case - I wouldn't support increasing public aid at this time reguardless.



No, but if we stop fucking things up, maybe our grand kids WILL live in in a society where the resentment has faded. But that wont happen the way we are doing it now. We're digging in the resentment, the intollerance, we're calling attention to the differences.



Frankly, I don't care about any of that. None of it changes the fact that our current 'solution' is a bad one in everything except the short term.



Why should there be incentives to meet certain ethnic criteria? Shouldn't there be incentives instead to, say, strive for the best academic results possible, so that our school system, currently nowhere near the best in the world, can be thought of as something other than a joke?

Oh, wait - you can't afford it, so you're not going to bother with it. Instead, you're going to accept the system we have and force people to make room for fake equality at the expense of denying those who have worked hard for the chance to do something. Gotcha.

I typo-ed the word "ethnic" in that first sentence. I really meant " provide incentives for schools with certain economic criteria" Ethnic criteria is a very poor way of dealing with things as we've already discussed. Economic factors are more accurate for the problem you'd like to solve. There are ways to make sure every school gets adequate funding and quality teachers.



I'm not going to accept it but I'm not going to remove it until we find a solution, either. If we allow an 18 year lapse in programs with nothing replacing the old system, we not only stood still, we slipped backwards. I, personaliy, can't afford to fix public education. Our federal and state governments can but they just choose not to. I worked in a public school district for years and have seen the obscene way they run things on the federal, state, county and city levels.

We both agree corporate ethnic percentages are dangerous and hindering to non-minority workers but the employers weren't hiring minorities before and there is absolutely NO sign that they will when incentives are removed. Do you have a solution to bring millions of people up to speed before the sun fizzles out? You have been quite engaging in this discussion but dont' seem to have any answers or suggestions except "the current system sucks."

~Lefty

This is where you and I differ - I don't believe in supporting broken, harmful programs simply because I can't think of anything better. That's like the trippaning arguement... "Why drill holes in people's heads, even though it kills them? Well, we don't know what ELSE to do..."

I think state and community colleges (and trade schools) should be free for U.S. citizens, like K-12 is. Yes, this would raise taxes significantly, but it would create an educated society--what a concept (very liberal, isn't it). With this type of system, there really would be no room for racism. Call me a socialist if you want, but I think some government programs that can benefit society as a whole are good things, whether they raise taxes or not.

Affirmative action is as racist as the practices it's trying to prevent.

In the US it's common and considered ok to discriminate against and belittle white males. It is very popular in television. Especially advertising where the clean cut average white Joe blow is often made to look like a dunce by either his children, spouse or minority coworker.

Many companies I have worked for talk a good game for affirmative action but don't follow it. There is allot of passive racism in corporate middle mgt. Many people are racist and don't even know it.
It's a two way street for sure. In the military (Army) it's almost impossible for white males to compete for a career in the enlisted ranks but the officer ranks the opposite is true.

I really feel affirmative action rules just create hostility and problems instead fixing anything.

I'm going to guess that you don't see a better way to get everyone on the same page though, huh?

~Lefty

Your agrument is banal as long as I think that you are petitioning for the drilling of the holes.

"Why start drilling holes in people's heads? It'll probably kill them!" ... "Well, the Tylenol wasn't working as well as we'd like. The drill seemed easier"

~Lefty

I think the original post of the drilling holes thing said it best.

It's better to have nothing in place than to have something that causes more damage than good. It's better not to give the patient anything than to drill holes in their head.

Um, no. I'm saying "leave things alone". That's what I've been saying the whole time, and that you think differently shows that you really don't grok what I'm saying, I think.