Is U.S. Becoming Hostile to Science?

Is the medieval mindset (ghosts, gods, goblins) of the threads in Off-Topic a sign of a larger problem? Reuters reports on the growing hostility of U.S. citizens towards science.



~Ulrika~

Heh. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Some of us live in a country where medieval life, rather than just a mindset, is a reality. Some parts of Portugal still have villages made up of subsistence farmers who live in stone houses with no running water and no electricity.
For them, witchcraft, spirits and gods are very much a reality. I tend to think of them as a wildlife preserve. It's kinda cute, and helps us keep in touch with our roots.
The problem in America is that the religious right has a very loud political voice. You should place a stronger emphasis on the separation of church and state.

becoming hostile, Ulrika?

Hehe. My girlfriend's parents are from the Azores (islands off Portugal for people who don't know geography) and they used to make shoes from leaves and could only afford chicken, which they'd make soup out of, once or twice a year when they were growing up. They are also really Catholic (no surprises there, huh Eggy?).

I was about to say the same thing, so I am quoting it for emphasis.

I got my primary education in the US DOD's dependents' school system more than 20 years ago. At the time, science was considered to be paramount to the nation's continued supremacy in the tech market. Since that time, a very bad thing has happened: The religious Right decided that they needed to run this country THEIR way (It may be the reactionary Luddite process, but it still sucks).

Unfortunately, said Religious whackjobs have siezed control of all three branches of government and have been running rampant over the the US Constitution and anything else that gets in their way. In the meantime, Foreign Policy, Preservation policy and Domestic Policy have gone to hell in a handbasket.

I tell ya. Canada is looking better and better every day.

Good one, Ulrika. Are we talking science itself or the scientific establishment and its hangers-on, which often has its own political agenda having little to do with the discovery of true knowledge?

For example, who is being hostile and who is getting hurt in this case now?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/27/AR2005102701999.html

It's bad enough when faiths want to call themselves science. But for the NAS to establish itself as a priesthood over what can and cannot be a subject for exploration and education and then to deny access to good science teaching materials is sickening.

Science gets in the way of controlling people.

Withholding copyrighted materials to prevent the dilution of the importance and findings of scientific observation to passify creationists is the correct path to take, IMHO. They have every right to make sure that the scientific materials they produce are accurate and not distorted.

What's sickening is a bunch of creationists trying to tweak the science cirricula to suit thier own needs, which is what is happening in Kansas - or so it seems.

And in the forums

I'm sick of the amount of religeous persecution coming from people in these forums. Some people choose to believe in creationism or some derivitive of that. But people just keep on at anyone who won't tow the Darwinist line. Gee. What a load of bigots you are. You are a disgrace.

I voted yes, but I don't regard those who preach an unpopular view of creation as the primary culprits.

I nominate the RIAA, who would gladly censor any branch of research and outlaw any technical innovation which threatens to dip into their constituents' pockets.

-- jj

The expression is "toe the line".

~Ulrika~

The US as world leader (technologicaly or otherwise) is quickly slipping away. (Some would say this is a good thing). Early in US history it rose to power by stealing technology from European countries, because there was no enforcement of European patents. The US became a manufacturing powerhouse combining abundent natural resources with cheap labor to undercut the rest of the world market. Europe however remained the center for institutions such as banking and scientific research. However, European countries began to wear themselves down fighting wars over ideology and in controlling their intrests around the globe. With coming of WWII, many scientists and intellectuals fled to the US. The US became the premier center of science, the economy flourished and the standard of living became the highest in the world.

Anyone guess what happened next?

Science education in the United States was given a big boost, I believe, by the 'Red Menace', whose technological precociousness was embodied in the small, tangible object known as Sputnik 1.

The idea was not to educate the populace for its own well being, but instead educate it just sufficiently to cull *enough* scientists from the United States population.

Specifically to combat the foreign threat of scientific dominance, as illustrated by nuclear weaponry.

More specifically, the goal was to gain correct-thinking scientists born on United States soil, untainted by foreign ideologies.

Think of it what you may, this approach served the United States very effectively, while not doing much to erode religious or nationalist agendas.

And now, because of where the money is at, we have a plethora of lawyers... Isn't that what brought down Rome?

PS, no offense meant there Jake...

Please.

As a person who is not allowed to live my life the way *I* see fit due to laws influenced, drafted, proposed, and passed by someone elses religious beliefs - I don't think any of my comments are persecutory or bigoted.

I believe that people should be allowed to practice whatever religion they want or refrain from it if they so choose. I don't believe religion should be in publicly funded schools or our government in any way, shape, or form.

Personal opinion is that people need an open mind, period. I would take something out of a science book with about the same credence of a religious one - if not for the incontrovertible proof backing many scientific theories.


The only reason we're having this debate is people like having their beliefs swayed by politics. And that shouldn't happen.

I'm tired of the people being tired of the people persecuting the religious in these forums. They are bigots against the bigots who hate the other bigots, and they're making me a bigot against them. How dare they make me get angry about them getting angry about people getting angry over angry people, and how dare they get angry about those angry people who hate other angry people? OOoh. It makes me so angry!

I like religious people. They make me smile, bless their little cotton socks.

But seriously as long as it stays in church I don't care what people think. I refuse to have my children be taught anything other than *falsifiable* science though.

A scientific fact is something you can prove exists, unfortunately evolution has a bit more evidence than God does... so ... we're drawn to the scientific conclusion that evolution is more viable than some omnipitent miracle. Bear in mind Christianity is 2000 years old, science was invented with the wheel.

I understand how religious people are confused by two conflicting stories but unfortunately for them a Religion CAN NOT destroy science. Science can NOT be classed as a religion unless you take into account the fact it's completely different from any other in that theories are made to be disproven rather than believed.

There is a big difference between the two and I hope that difference gets taught at school rather than two versions of our history.


EDIT---------------------

I just thought I'd add a discussion I was having with a friend the other day.

Seeing as how the Romans were in the Holy Lands at the time, and Jesus created a religious movement to counter them and undermine their authority. Was Jesus a terrorist? And would he be in Guantanamo Bay if he was still alive?

It's "toe" the line, not "tow" the line, 'kay?

Gawd.

Doesn't anyone believe in speeling anymore?

Mem I blame you for the fact every time I see you post I have a great need to listen to Dresden Dolls.

What a lovely thing to be blamed for!

Not accordig to my religion. Stop persecuting me already!

Yeah, he was convicted of terrorism by the Romans and given the death penalty. (at least he got a trial)

The period goes inside the quotation mark at the end, so your sentence should read: The expression is "toe the line."

(Also, I happen to agree that, given the political climate in the US these days, Canada is starting to look better and better.)