Church hires convicted child molester as pastor.

I'm sure that the latter plays a part, but I doubt the former does. I think the fear (and hate) mongering that goes on towards sex offenders has far more to do with political opportunism at the expense of an easy target than it does with any measurable benefit.

exactly.

I'm sure this does have some impact. Any hiring for positions involving close contact with children should be entitled to a felony background check for sex crimes. But given the stats I don't think our energies should be focused on singling out and banishing sex offenders who have done their time, when the vast majority of child sex crimes occur at the hands of relatives and close acquaintances who have never previously been convicted.

I don't want to make light of this. I consider child molestation and rape the most serious crimes short of murder. And we should have a right to know if the youth leader or teacher has a criminal record. But we need to focus our energies on reducing the biggest dangers, not on demonizing and exiling people trying to make their lives good again.

I know this will be taken as denial: <deep breath> keep in mind that these are IMPRISONED and RE-ARRESTED figures. The same report you mentioned has higher rates listed for recidivism (Paraphrasing):

Recidivism rate for new sex crimes: 13.7% [Buster: What the heck does that mean anyway?]
Recidivism rate for child molestation: 12.7%
Recidivism rate for child molestation within families: 8.4% [Buster: Additive or inclusive?]

FURTHER: The study you mention gets its figures from a publication called:
"Predictors of Sexual Recidivism: An Updated Meta-Analysis 2004-02 by R. Karl Hanson and Kelly Morton-Bourgon. (http://ww2.psepc-sppcc.gc.ca/publications/corrections/pdf/200402_e.pdf)

This document states the following:
[...] "general (any) recidivism rate was 36.9% (n=13,196, 56 studies)"

and further:

[...] "These figures should be considered to underestimate the real recidivism rates because not all offences are detected."

Given the accidental or deliberate omission of these figures, I'd have to say I question the study.

Regardless, after having read the "Predictors" paper, it should also be noted that many of these studies are based on REPORTED crimes, and everyone should know that just because a crime is reported (by a victim) and conviction is obtained, it may not be REPORTED to the federal agencies that collect this statistical data. (see UCR/NIBRS references) For example, under older UCR reporting standards (still used in many places), you can only report the most severe offense in any given incident (With exceptions for Arson). So if a guy (probably white guy, 35) Breaks into a house, kills the parents, rapes the kid, and burns the house down, its: Murder, Arson. Bummer eh?

MORE FUN WITH CRIME REPORTING: (From the UCR faq list)
Q19. A store owner shoots at a robber, misses, and kills an innocent bystander. Would this be classified as a Criminal Homicide?
A19. This situation would be reported as a Robbery to UCR. The UCR definition of Criminal Homicide calls for "the willful (non-negligent) killing of one human being by another." The circumstances in this situation do not meet this definition. The death of the bystander would be considered an accidental death which is not counted in the Uniform Crime Reporting Program. (UCR Handbook, Pg. 6)


EDIT: By the way, I'm a white guy, 35. Ok... 35ish.

Well, I guess I don't have a strong response here, except that in my gut, I feel that he has probably caused grave concern in his parishioners. The pastor has a position of authority in the church, and will have access to kids whether he's specifically in the youth director position or not.

I guess I just feel that a "man of God" should not be putting this great a strain on his parish. I get the feeling that this is a parish of 50ish people who may not even have kids. Even so, don't the parishioners then have the duty to tell any incoming families with kids of the situation? It's quite a burden to ask. Again this is just "gut feeling" arguement. (I've been in a similar situation and left my church because of it, eventually even left for another denomination.)

As for his self-control being a sham, It may be an unfair assumption to make, but think of this little bit of Christian fundamentalism: If you molest a child, and TRULY repent, (I'll leave off the rest of the preachy bit...) and then are weak and do it again, and TRULY repent, God still lets you in.

As a Christian, I have the obligation to try to help you meanwhile, and even after the second time, and I'll expect to see you in the afterlife, but I don't have to put my kids at risk, if I think there's risk.

Hmm, as usual when you dig deeper, you discover some bias in the way the figures are reported. Still, the studies show that recidivism for sex crimes is certainly lower than for most other crimes.


Care to dig deeper on this one?



Pedophile - a term often misused as a synonym for child molester. As a thought pattern, considered by most not really curable (hardly surprising). It refers to someone whose primary sexual attraction is to children.

According to ye olde Wikipedia, 20% (or more) of all men have experienced sexual attraction to children. So-

Where do we stop with the scarlet letters? 1 in 5 men (at least) could be, might possibly be, a threat to your safety or to that of your children.

Actually, I would hazard that virtually every person in the world has harbored some sort of evil impulse at some point in their lives. Some have acted on them and been punished. I think there is more to this, but seriously, at some point we have to forgive, and take our chances on trusting one another or civilization will simply collapse into another dark age.

I'd want to see a different study that says the same thing before I agree... All the cops I know say it's way higher for offending pedophiles, but that's just hearsay.



OK.. guilty as charged! I should say "Offending Pedophiles" or something similar.



YES! "Evil" thoughts and impulses are not crimes (beginning to wonder how long that's going to last) nor are they sins (pretty solid about that.. not going to change, I think).

So:
Pedophile - Not a sinner - Get him some help if he needs it. (or she... but not as often)
Offending Pedophile (or child molester, or whatever other term applies) - Sinner - Get him some help and keep him away from kids. (she, taken in doses as above).


I'm going to be up all night.
You guys are cool. I'm so glad I decided to get involved in the fora right when they decided to take them away.

*shivers*

When Jesus said to forgive your brother, he didn't mean that we should lose all sense. People with a lot of problems seem to join the ministry because it offers them a form of control (and pedophelia is often a way of exercising control over others, just as regular rape of adults is). A situation like this, where he COULD offend again, is just too dangerous.

as usual, I'm with Chip on this - and as usual, he said it better than I could have. Thanks!

.

and now for a few words on behalf of victims,
for whom second chances don't exist ...




~†~ redemption rant ~†~


you grabbed me
forced me into your van
roughed me up
tied me up
then you beat me again


later, you dragged me to a field
raped me
beat me some more
killed me
then you sexed me again


eventually, you were arrested
a lawyer was assigned to defend you
the jury found you guilty of four others like me
you were sentenced to die
and leisurely, you awaited that day to come


one tuesday morning at 5am you discover god on channel 11
seeking redemption at breakfast, you become born again
receiving the power of the holy spirit, your sins are forgiven
from the anointing, you are now in heaven with jesus
hallelujah, praise the lord


and still, undiscovered
plucked by crows
my flesh and blood remain in covenant
with a handful of earth's dirt



fin

©2004 by (aka Arsenic Soyinka)



.

It's technically natural for any man, at one point or another, to be sexually attracted to a child. I'd think that a chronic condition related to this, acting on it, or attraction to...like...babies and shit, that's where you get into mental illness.

Technically Natural as in:

1.) Women have a finite egg count. This is part of why men are attracted, commonly, to younger women; they are a better breeding option, starting from around age 9 - 10, on the long term.

2.) It's a taboo. Everyone considers a taboo at least once in their life, simply out of morbid curiosity, and finds themselves attracted to a concept or two.

Interesting point.

No, I don't think that all homosexuals are pedophiles, nor that all pedophiles are homosexual. However, there is a sliver of truth in there.

Can a person who's homosexual simply stop being homosexual? Or does that person simply not act on their nature? I believe people are born homosexual, they don't just 'decide' one day to be gay. Nor can they simply decide not to be gay anymore.


I believe it's the same for pedophiles. This guy can't say he's not a pedophile any longer, anymore than a gay person can just stop being gay, or a straight person stop being straight.

All they can say, is that they'll try not to do that anymore. If a straight or gay person 'falls off the wagon' and has sex again ... well, who cares? But if a pedophile falls off who gets hurt? Some innocent kid.

I'd never trust this guy around kids.

And thus you have poetically summed up the most difficult conundrum that a Christian has to struggle with.

The first thought that pops into my head when I hear something like this is: "Surely he was "repenting" only to lighten the punishment he faces on earth... I KNOW he won't be in heaven with Jesus..."

So I don't have a great earthly answer, other than: this is exactly why I think it's advisable to err on the side of caution in this case.

It's one thing for adults to take their chances on one another.

It's quite another for an adult to take that chance with the safety of a child, who has no power to defend himself/herself. Also, a child is much more likely to not be believed if s/he reports abuse that has happened.

Society, recognizing that children are much less able to defend themselves, takes extra pains to protect them. This is right.

One victim due to recidivism is one victim too many.

I think that if this man has really repented of his sins he'd be looking for a line of work that does not involve minors. There are plenty of interesting jobs that do not require any contact with children at all.

If the job he was applying for was day care, would anyone really believe he was cured of his problem?

For pedophiles to wrap themselves in the holy cloak of religion is one of the oldest tricks in the book to gain the confidence of the parents of the next victims. It makes it very possible that when the next victim of his abuse tries to report the abuse, he or she will not be believed. How dare you say anything bad about the holy man!

I have to agree with Chiip. If he was tried, found guilty and punished, a chance must be given to rebuild a live. Even tho I find it very Christian to do this (I'm not a christian myself) and 'forgive and forget' action, personally I'm sceptical.

However, consider something else. Here, in Netherlands, there were some trials were murderers got a few years of prison (like 15 or so). With good behaviour, they get out with 10 or so.

Then what? A murderer might find the 'desire' to do it again, just as a pedophile. Should that person be locked up, maybe some special kind of village where all rapists, murderers and pedo's can make and build their own society, own government completely shielding the rest of the world FROM them? Sounds like concentration camp written all over it to me.

I don't think that would be the answer either. Most human thing to be done would be to give them a chance but be very vigilante/carefull about it. Like having this ex-pedophile/child abuser not to be alone with kids ever.