Objects Being Returned For No Reason...

I just received the following email:

The object 'Chain Reaction' has sent you a message from Second Life:
Your object 'Chain Reaction' has been returned to you from parcel 'HM
Designs - Downtown Grignano' at Grignano 140, 224.


I know for a fact that this is on my friends land and has been there for at least a month. I know that she is and has been offline for about 3 weeks due to her cable being out. I also just spoke to her on the phone and confirmed that there should be no reason for the return.

I also have heard from Pete Fats that some of his objects located on my property in Clyde were returned to him. I checked the parcel and it is not set to auto return nor has it reached prim limits. I have checked with my other group member and they did not return the objects either.

Is anyone else having this problem?

About once a week - sometimes more I get objects returned to my inventory even though I have plenty of prim availability on my land. It is tough because the Spook House is scripted in a chain of commands from one object to the next so all of the pertinent objects need to be in place in order for it to work. This is a bad bug and I hope it will get fixed.

All the best,
Sinatra

It'll only get fixed if you've reported it.

You've reported it, right?

Yes, it had been reported.. still having same problem tho..

I... Um... Had a similar experience this weekend. I hadn't been on SL all day Saturday (a first for me in months) but was on the computer that night. I noticed that I had 270 new emails since I had checked a few hours ago. When I checked, they were all "Your object has been returned" messages, and hundres MORE were coming in!

I logged onto SL and teleported as fast as I could to the site in Kojin that was being affected. Once there, I could actually see the prims vanishing, one linked group at a time, new "object returned" messages now being IMed right to me. (Email was still catching up for a while.)

There was nothing I could do but watch as 95% of my Timeplunge and New Timeplunge builds vanished into the aether.

When the Nothing stopped consuming my things, only 56 random prims (some new, some old) were left on my 7,000+ m2 in Kojin.

While LL has backups, they can only be used to rollback entire sims, not individual plots. So I'm screwed. I've started rebuilding from what few pieces I had saved to inventory, but it's depressing work.

Philip has expressed his concern and has pointed out this event to the dev teams. I hope whatever caused it can be found and fixed soon, because no one should ever have to experience this first hand.


I'm starting a new technique for backing up my builds. Though there are limits on size and distance for linking, you can still select and Take (or Take Copy) huge colelctions of items into your inventory. The problem comes when trying to reposition what you have taken back onto your land.

What I'm going to do from now on is select everything (using the Select Only My Objects flag in the Tools menu) and see where the edit center point is. Then I'll create a cube at that location and name it with the name of my whole build AND it's coordinates.

Then select everything again, deselect the cube (if it got included) and reselect it so that it is the last object added to the selection. Then Take All.

My whole build should now be in my inventory with a descriptive name and a position. If I need to reconstitute my build from nothing, I check this item to get the position then rez and position a cube at the target position and color it bright red. Now I can drag and drop my save onto the top of this new prim, and the rest of the build should be very close to it's final resting place.

After that, it's just a matter of nudging the whole selection about to try and get the root cube prim back where it was before. (Don't use the numbers for this, it has to be done by hand.) When you get a red texture flicker on all sides of the cube, you know, visually, that you are in exact position.

I tested this idea with one of the 56 random prims that were left on my land, coloring it red then draging my old save over it until it locked in. It was fairly easy since I always build to the grid whenever possible. Too bad it was less than 25% of my build.

How to temporarily protect a build against deletion:
Objects are usually returned on a newest-first basis. Therefore, fill up the rest of your prim availability with useless invisible cubes. If you notice things getting returned, set a script to rez crap automatically and in theory it should prevent the important stuff from getting deleted.

I tried what Eggy is suggesting but it does't work. I continue having objects returned and so far, not a single one of them is one of the new "safety" prims, but the older prims that are part of the Spook House. As far as reporting, yes I have reported it, all they said was "we are working on it" That was quite some time ago.

Bad Bug, Fix IT!!!!!

Sinatra

Yeah, this doesn't seem to follow the methods that have been told to us. Of the 56 prims left of my thousands, they were a random mix of times and ages. Old, new, and in between.

Besides, my land wasn't filled with newly rezzed prims... There were only 56 left out of a total limit of 3,500!

This is something totally different.

Ack, Tiger. I certainly hope Linden will roll things back on that sim. Losing Timeplunge is not a smaller matter, and a setback on the sequel is ... upsetting.

At the very Least, Linden Lab should credit your account the Land Tier fees of the affected lots for the month as a show of good faith.

This picture shows that this iS a MAJOR bug in SL.

http://www.twistedboy.com/2nd_Life/Prim_Problem.gif

I removed ALL objects from my land, and for the last four days, each and everyday, 50 + new objects are being created on my land. They are invisible objects, I cannot see them. As this picture shows, they are taking away from my prim count!!! This is probably why I keep getting prims returned.

FIX THIS BUG!!!

WHY? because it SUCKS!!!!

CPHOMML
(crazy, pulling hair out, mad-man laugh)

Sinatra, is this in Clyde? I am having the same problem. I have had several people over to try and "find the Prims" . We have finally narrowed it down to a 64^m parcel that we had to separate from the rest of the land just to monitor it. We were lucky there were no other vendors on this parcel.

Last night for example this parcel went from 22 owned by others at 4:45pm to 552 owned by others by 8:45pm.

LL sensor does not detect any prims in this area except the 47 owned by me. This is a serious problem and needs to be fixed.

I will not give up my quest to get answers to this problem. Sure I can set this small parcel to auto return but then what if the problem moves over 10 meters to where I have other vendors and auto return is not an option? I want to know why this is happening. Every night its do prim counts on all the parcels.

Its no fun to log on and find you went from 1500 prims to "you are about to have 103 prims deleted".

Out of curiosity Tiger does your land happen to be dead center of the sim?

I think you have the same problem as Sinatra and me at least.. there is some phantom prims generating on our land that are not detectable but are depleting prims.

Guess we can call it the Ghosts of SL. Its kinda hard to report the object when no one including Lindens can detect them.

So if they cant detect them then dont you think this constitutes a serious problem?

NOT GIVING UP TILL ITS DEALT WITH!

It happens all the time in these three places:

Clyde 176, 131
Noyo 92, 150
Muave 167, 216

Sinatra

Gads and I just thought it was at Clovers. This has been going on long before 1.4 also. We have been dealing with this for over a month not knowing what exactly was going on until about a week ago.

I just want to clarify two things in this thread. There are two different problems going on that I have personal knowledge of.

1. The return of objects from land where they have a right to be and there are plenty of prims available to support them.

2. The phantom objects appearing daily depleating from over all prim counts.

Whether these are related some how I have no clue but they are both happening.

to me!

Would it be possible for a Linden to make a fucking comment about this, such as "we are aware of it and looking into it", "we had no idea", "we don't give a shit", or "make sure you have the latest drivers loaded and clear your cache". Incidentally this isn't affecting me but it certainly fits in the category of "showstopper bug".

No, I never use profanity in forums and extremely rarely in game (only in M sims of course). I'm trying to determine whether my saying "fucking" and "shit" in the forum is more important than the world self destructing. And, yes, I know, my saying this skews the test.

I bitched about this in another thread somewhere right after 1.4 went live. But somehow this one seems more appropriate.

Bearing in mind that I own a sim, and have PLENTY of prims available, I had about 2000 objects go offworld after 1.4 was implemented that had been perfectly fine where they were before.

At the time, I had IM to email set, and I got over 1500 email notifications, which got my email account suspended, too. Which was nice.

The main culprit as the swarming 'fireflies' I had at the telehub. They were set to be equally at home on land or water, and would often bury themselves half a meter or so underground, which was perfectly fine by me as they are 'temporary on rez' and pop out of existence after 60 seconds anyway. Now, the instant they go below ground level - which is a good 4 or 5 meters above sea level - they go offworld.

When I logged in after 1.4, I was being bombarded with these messages - hundreds of them had accumulated every time - and even after the buffered ones were cleared I was still being IM'd every 2 seconds - well, as you know, they tend to lock up the client for a second... which meant I was totally and utterly unable to move or do anything at all to try and rectify the situation. I crashed out maybe a dozen times before I finally managed to get someone to tp me right to the location so I could just delete the swarm rezzor.

Similarly, it seems that stuff that used to be able to be partially dug into the ground now cant be. Anything that intersects into land, whereever it is - like the sides of my volcano - are now returned. Half the rocks on my waterfall disappeared, along with quite a bit of the walls that made up the interior of Hell.

I did bug report it, but no word from anyone. As usual.

I worked with a Linden yesterday to try and find out what happened to my things in Kojin. I think we came up with part of the problem, and found one bug that will be fixed in an update... But there are still unanswered questions.

The bug seems to be that, right after a sim reset, objects that were Temp on Rez are no longer considered to be so.

Now my Timeplunge ride was at this location and it does a lot of rezzing of temp objects as set pieces. But when we duplicated the environment of that fateful Saturday, I found the ride in a tight loop rezzing one set over and over again, eating all the prims my land there could support (3,500+). The rezzing script, however, doesn't have a loop anywhere in it. The whole ride is just one long sequence with llSleeps and trips through the timer function to create the pauses in the ride. So I don't know how it could have gotten into a state where it would repeatedly rez things over and over.

But saying it somehow could, the objects were temp on rez. Even if the sim reset, only those temp object in existence at the time would lose the temp flag. New ones that it was churning out should be fine.

But saying that somehow they weren't, and that it kept rezzing new objects and deleteing old ones (should't it be deleting new ones instead?) and eventually deletes itself and stops. The temp objects evaporate and I'm left with 56 prims... Some very old, some very new. This, too, confuses me.

Anyway... Last night I set the Timeplunge up in Lime for the anniversary festival there. The copy I had in my inventory was lacking some changes I made, AND the main script in the time vehicle was "missing from the database" or so an error message said when I tried to open it for editing. I had to use an even older backup to replace it.

The main scripts are all dissabled right now until after this morning's update, since the whole grid will be reset then and I don't want to take any chances. I'll turn it on when the update is complete.

(Of course, Timeplunge sorta sucks doo-doo when half the sets ghost. But there's nothing I can do about that. Sorry.)

Tiger I'm not sure that is the same thing tho that is causing my problem. The ebil parcel I have sectioned out has 47 objects owned by me well by group. None are temp on rez. If I turn off auto return there will be around 400 to 800 prims on this 64^m parcel owned by others.

Last night even with auto return on set to 1 minute there were still 9 objects owned by others..

I hope you are right and that a patch will fix it.. its annoying and also scary..

Did you know that in 1.4, when you click the "Return To Owner" button and the "Are you sure?" dialog pops up... All the objects to be returned are edit-outlined so you can see them?

Try turning off water and land and fog, then do this from a good camera angle. You might be able to see the objects causing the problem. Maybe someone nearby had a gun who's alpha-ed bullets aren't self-die...

Great tip Tiger! Will try that tonight as objects continue to appear even after the patch.

Well I think after the last patch that the phantom objects appearing have been fixed. The small patch I have been having the problem on seems to be ok now.

However, I am still having a problem with objects being returned for no reason. Whether it be stuff I have put on a friends land or stuff in our group on our own land.

Is anyone else still having a problem with this?

Sinatra is a prim hording biznatcher! (I made up a word!)

No wonder you're rich, you tax abusing.. oh wait, v1.0 is gone. Hrm well you're still a biznatcher, just not a prim hording biznatcher!

Bos

ps hey hey Sin :)

Bosozoku is a minor! Why is he allowed in SL! What a griefer