Oh Noes! I am building a PC! What CPU do i get? AMD or INTEL?
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Delta Nyak
Registered User
Join date: 9 Feb 2005
Posts: 123
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05-30-2009 13:46
From: Briana Dawson But what about 2 years from now?
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Well, a lot can happen in 2 years in this industry, In the case of this particular configuration, the board would accommodate the Phenom II Deneb AM3 Chips, which will, I think come down in price in time (they feature between 4 and 6MB cache)
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That CPU looks kinda small and slow compared to the i7 Intel which has a huge 8MB cache compared to the 2MB cache of the AMD.
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If you look closely you will see the 135x family has 2MB L2 and 2MB L3 caches, for a total of 4MB . . .
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Isn't there a great speed and performance difference?
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There would be a difference, no doubt; my point was that the Intel setup is a lot more expensive, which to me is important. I did also specify that Dollar for Dollar, Intel has nothing that can compare.
As regards capability, let me give an example:
I recently tested and was able to run 11 instances of SL concurrently, for an average CPU utilization of 88%, with CPU Core temperatures around 40C
My usual active desktop repertoire includes:
5 concurrent browser windows open, running 11-13 tabs (ie, minimum 11 browsers open), these include two email accounts, digg, yahoo news, DailyTech, Anandtech, facebook, SL forums, Wikipedia, Newegg, Ewiz, Geeks.com, starmicro, etc
Skype
At least 2 Linux Virtual Machines (Typically an Ubuntu 8.10 LAMPS server, and Ubuntu 8.10 Studio)
Up to 4 instances of SL, or in its place a Video Conversion program, or possibly a movie running in Divx player.
Realplayer for music backgound.
All this and the CPU Utilization averages less than 50% while the Core temperatures remain below 40C.
To summarise, I do run a lot of concurrent programs, which is why I have a quad.
The i7 is very nice, and expensive, from my perspective. I did notice that your thread started off looking at AMD, and then it seems you got swept up into the i7 cloud; nothing wrong with that at all. You budget what you want to spend and live with it, my purpose was to bring some hard benchmarks to the discussion, both performance and cost related.
As an aside, I have yet to see anyone with an i7 setup publish comparable benchmarks
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What is MICRO ATX - does that mean i need one of those teenie tiny cases that look little hot boxes?? --- No, it fits a standard tower/desktop box, just does not fill it to capacity. Look at these pics to get a sense of its size: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.aspx?ISList=13-186-166-S01%2c13-186-166-S02%2c13-186-166-S03%2c13-186-166-S04%2c13-186-166-S05&S7ImageFlag=1&Item=N82E16813186166&Depa=0&WaterMark=1&Description=Foxconn%20A76ML-K%20Micro%20ATX%20AMD%20Motherboard%20-%20Retail |
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Delta Nyak
Registered User
Join date: 9 Feb 2005
Posts: 123
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Some good advice here . . .
05-30-2009 14:51
Do look at Anandtech's Guides, they are most informative . . . http://www.anandtech.com/guides/ |
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Delta Nyak
Registered User
Join date: 9 Feb 2005
Posts: 123
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If I was going to spend the money . . .
05-30-2009 16:38
Qty. Product Description Savings Total Price
2
OCZ Fatal1ty Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2F10664GK
OCZ Fatal1ty Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory
Item #:N82E16820227364
Return Policy: Limited Non-Refundable 30-Day Return Policy
-$10.00 Instant
$10.00 Mail-in Rebate
$119.98
$99.98
1
GIGABYTE GA-MA790X-UD4P AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard
GIGABYTE GA-MA790X-UD4P ATX AMD Motherboard
Item #:N82E16813128387
Return Policy: 30 Day Return Policy
$109.99
1
GIGABYTE GV-N98TOC-512I GeForce 9800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card
GIGABYTE GeForce 9800 GT GV-N98TOC-512I Video Card
Item #:N82E16814125270
Return Policy: Limited Non-Refundable 30-Day Return Policy
-$10.00 Instant
$109.99
$99.99
1
AMD Phenom II X4 940 Deneb 3.0GHz Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Black Edition Processor Model HDZ940XCGIBOX
AMD Phenom II X4 940 3.0GHz Black Edition Quad-core Processor
Item #:N82E16819103471
Return Policy: Processors (CPUs) Return Policy
-$25.00 Instant
$214.99
$189.99
1
Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Antec Three Hundred Black Computer Case
Item #:N82E16811129042
Return Policy: Manufacturer Warranty
-$11.00 Instant
$69.95
$58.95
1
BFG Tech LS SERIES LS-550 550W Continuous @ 40°C ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.8 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply
BFG Tech LS SERIES LS-550 550W Continuous @ 40°C Power Supply
Item #:N82E16817702008
Return Policy: 30 Day Return Policy
-$40.00 Instant
$20.00 Mail-in Rebate
$119.99
$79.99
1
Western Digital Caviar GP WD7500AACS 750GB 5400 to 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5
Western Digital Caviar GP 750GB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Hard Drive
Item #:N82E16822136150
Return Policy: 30 Day Return Policy
$69.99
1
LG Black LG Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner SATA Model GGC-H20L
LG Black LG Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner SATA Model GGC-H20L
Item #:N82E16827136154
Return Policy: 30 Day Return Policy
-$15.00 Instant
$112.99
$97.99
Grand Total: $806.87
Of course it would require a 64 bit OS to take advantage of the Full RAM allocation.
S&H = $0.00 till 5/31/09 from newegg.
These components have been selected based on reader Feedback in terms of reliability, and known good brand selection . . .
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Briana Dawson
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Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,855
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05-31-2009 11:17
sigh....i really hate these review sites.
- Toms hardware
- Hardforum
- Anandtech
My eyes hurt, my head hurts. All those charts and all those numbers....
This is what i have come to.
the Intel i7 920 (the slowest i7), is 10% slower than the top (the fastest) AMD Phenom II x4 955 Black, and $35 more expensive than the AMD. The intel i7 is a baby and has lots of room to grow. The AMD Phenom II X4 is at the top and end of its line and has nowhere else to go.
It seems the smarter investment would be the Intel i7 920 because in the future i can upgrade from the 2.66ghz to the 3.2ghz when the prices drop, using the same motherboard, whereas there is no upgrade path for greater potential with the AMD without replacing the CPU/Motherboard and maybe even RAM.
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Briana Dawson
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Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,855
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05-31-2009 11:33
This is what i have decided on, thanks to help from you guys and some friends inworld: - BIOSTAR TpowerX58 LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail $249.00 ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138135) - Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80601920 - Retail $288.99 - GeForce 9800 GTX 512MB 256-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card $99.00 - CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX 850W ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Active PFC Power Supply - Retail $159.00 -OCZ XMP Ready Series 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ3X1600LV6GK - Retail $125.99 - Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM $89.99 -LG Black LG Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner SATA Model GGC-H20L $124.00 - Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case $69.95 ------ Total: $1135 (approximately) I guess that covers it. Oh a keyboard and mouse... This system is more expensive than what i wanted to spend. If i could get a system in 600-700 range i could have it mid-june. But this more expensive system will require my squirreling away money until around Jul 15 to Aug 1st. It all comes from Newegg and i put it in my wishlist so its there forever and maybe the prices will drop by then. I won't buy the motherboard or CPU until last so that i don't run afoul of any warranty time limits in case the items don't work. I wish cases looked better or were more airy looking but the prices of those things jis ust really sick and all they do are hold parts. Oh and I forgot to budget for Vista 64.  Thanks again everyone.  |
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Briana Dawson
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Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,855
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05-31-2009 13:02
I don't understand why Dell's, HPs, Compaq, Gateways, do not come with such great configurations at a decent price. You pay twice as much for a Dell as you can build a system that is superior in every category, for 1/2 the price. And then they sell you a system you cannot even upgrade all the time because of case sizes or motherboard. But with my luck, after saying this, I will try to put a computer together and probably fry everything.  |
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Briana Dawson
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Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,855
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05-31-2009 13:08
What really upsets me is that my Dell came with an ATI HD 2600XT 256mb card, which out of the box gave me video display driver death errors (which i learned has to do with somethings you have installed, like OO Defrag makes it happen, or Paragon Backup as well). So, i replaced my ATI card with a 1 year old 9500GT 1GB, and it FLIES - i have Antialiasing and and that Ani-something turned on, my draw at 256, everything else at max with a screen size of 1650x1050(? something like that), and the card has incredible smooth camming and motion whereas my ATI card looked good but when i would zoom out and in it would be a little choppy or pause'ish - and this video card only cost $69.00 - and was not an option when i put my Dell XPS together on the website last June. The reason i got the new card was just so that i could use OO Defrag and a backup utility (both of which were causing display driver death errors when installed). I feel like those commercial computer places are ripping people off putting together things that may not work right together, i.e. my brand new XPS having display driver death errors fresh out of the box with the ATI card because there was some software coflict - when i reinstalled Vista the error stopped. I am rather miffed now. |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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05-31-2009 13:25
Dell in particular seems to delight in putting together unreliable and non-expandable kit.
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Chosen Few
Alpha Channel Slave
Join date: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 7,496
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05-31-2009 13:46
Looks like some nice choices, Briana. I think you'll be more than pleased with your new machine. It actually looks like some of the prices you listed have dropped since the time you listed them. That memory kit, for example, is now $85.99, after mail-in rebate. That's a steal and a half. I agree with your comment on cases, by the way. They're all way overpriced. It's a freakin' metal and plastic box, which can't cost more than a few dollars to make, no matter how elaborate, yet they charge well into the hundreds for high end ones. That said, I do have one criticism of the case you picked, which you may want to consider. The hard drive bays are backwards facing, which can make swapping or adding drives kind of pain. I'd recommend a case with side facing drive bays, so you can easily pull or add a drive at any time. This one, from NZXT has side-facing bays, and is the same price: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146041. It's got one less HD bay, but one more optical bay, so it pretty much evens out, depending on your needs. Also, it's got a front/side eSATA port built in, which is nice. As for why the big brand name manufacturers can't seem to compete, price-wise, with DIY, I'd say it's pretty much the same with computers as with anything else. You're either paying extra for someone else's labor, or you're not. It's just like buying meat or produce at the grocery store. Sliced turkey breast, for example, costs up to six times more per pound than a whole turkey does. A pouch of sliced salami can cost up to three times as much as a whole unsliced salami, from the same brand. A bag of pre-cut lettuce can cost as much as thirty times per pound more than an uncut head of lettuce. The list goes on and on. (Can you tell I used to sell housewares for a living? A good set of knives alone can save a person literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in grocery costs, over a life time.) If you want someone else to assemble (or slice) an item for you, whether it's a computer, a sandwich, or anything else, you pay for the time they're putting into it. If you do it yourself, you pay less.
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Briana Dawson
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Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,855
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05-31-2009 14:07
Great advice Chosen (though i have no idea what you mean!)! I do see looking at the NZXT website that there s a difference between the Apollo and the Adamas when it comes to the bottom little box thing on the inside (thats where the HDs go i guess)...it all looks alien compared to the inside of my Dell, which is full of bulky plastic and everything is hidden - except the video card and 1 HD. I like this case: NZXT Apollo ORANGE NP Orange SECC Steel Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146027 It is only $10 more than the Antec case i chose and looks way better and has a hole in the side which has to be good for air. I do like the way the little cubes look much better. I just am afraid of all the heat that builds up in a small box like that. A review on the newegg site by someone said it was the first computer they ever built and that everything fit without a problem. And after reading all these motherboard reviews i have learned that there are all kinds of complications with motherboards fitting into cases with or without the heatsink thing installed first. I wonder if i should get 3rd party heatsink or is the intel stock one o.k.? |
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Milla Janick
Empress Of The Universe
Join date: 2 Jan 2008
Posts: 3,075
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05-31-2009 14:11
From: Briana Dawson I wonder if i should get 3rd party heatsink or is the intel stock one o.k.? Intel heatsinks are fine. |
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Delta Nyak
Registered User
Join date: 9 Feb 2005
Posts: 123
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So it goes . . .
05-31-2009 14:18
You pays your money and you takes your choice . . .
Only comments I would offer is in terms of the Motherboard, to look at Gigabyte, Foxconn and Asus more carefully, Biostar does not rank nearly as well for overall reliability.
Since you are not going to be buying the MB and CPU for a while (very wise decision) you can monitor the Readers reviews, and see how things shape up.
That being said, comparing the X58 chipset to others, it would seem that all manufacturers are having a bit of tough time making it as stable as some others.
Overall, I would say your choices are reasonable, I wish you a lot of joy with the new PC!
Also, Do run the PCWizard 2008 Global Benchmark on both your old and new systems, I would be very interested to see the numbers . . .
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Osgeld Barmy
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Join date: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 3,336
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05-31-2009 14:21
From: Milla Janick Intel heatsinks are fine. i second that the only reasons you need a 3rd party heatsink is A) the chip is oem and does not come with one B) the stock heatsink has a small fan and you find it noisy C) your going to overclock, and even then the stock ones can usually keep up at first D) your making a hotrod show computer and you need a 12 inch 6 LED monster with gold foil fins for that touch of bling |
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Osgeld Barmy
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Join date: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 3,336
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05-31-2009 14:26
From: Delta Nyak You pays your money and you takes your choice . . .
Only comments I would offer is in terms of the Motherboard, to look at Gigabyte, Foxconn and Asus more carefully Since 1999 i have had many boards by those makers, all of them are awesome, In a pinch MSI and ECS seem to hold up pretty well to From: Delta Nyak
Biostar does not rank nearly as well for overall reliability.
ive sent a few biostars out into the world, and they usually come back rather quickly, They can be fine, but my personal odds with them are not that great Back to the op, i usually grab the cheapest case i can find, right now that happens to be geeks.com (who i really dont like so watch it) they have some el cheapo cases with no power supply for as low as 15 bucks ... and im not as concerned about looks since mine usually end up out of sight under a desk |
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Argent Stonecutter
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Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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05-31-2009 14:59
ASUS always used to be the bomb, but the last couple of ASUS motherboards I got turned out to be lemons... which I would have found out if I'd read the reviews. So I'm not sure there's any manufacturer you can really depend on any more: check the specific boards out online.
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Delta Nyak
Registered User
Join date: 9 Feb 2005
Posts: 123
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Motherboards and other things . .
05-31-2009 17:30
Gigabyte has been a perennial fave of mine, Foxconn seems to be shaping up recently (They turn out to be the largest OEM of Computer Parts in the World).
If I was going to spend a $1000 on a system, it better be able to, at the very least, find intelligent life in the rest of the universe all on its ownsome . . . especially with pretty decent $75 Quads being available . . .
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Osgeld Barmy
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Join date: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 3,336
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05-31-2009 17:53
Ive personally have had quite a few gigabyte boards, even back in the super 7 days, they prove to be rock solid good performers, and offer enough options for the tweaker
2 extreme cases...
1 kronos rutherford's (who i used to roomate with) took a lightning strike which melted the ATX connector to the mobo, and still ran fine for almost a year before giving out
2) my last gigabyte board had been hit so many times that all the caps (metal cans on the board) are now puffy and just barley not blown, i noticed this in like 2006, in 2008 it started getting weird with AGP 8x cards, and as of right now its still performing perrfectly with a AGP 4x card as my spare computer
Ive had quite a few ASUS boards in the past too, and back then you were told at the counter, "dont even bother with this board unless you know what your doing", they were massive tweaker / OCer boards
Nowdays they seem to be a tad more expensive and offer less than competive boards, at about the same performance
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