Changing from a PC to a Mac ?

Argent, you know I love ya! One of my best SL friends is a cute little cuddly ferret too.........he loves our hugs (I suspect I know why too.........LOL).

This has been one of the most interesting, insightful threads I've read in a very long time. Hope we find each other on some other forum/blogorum (whatever) after next Tuesday.

I'm not an expert.....but I'm not ignorant either. I love these back and forths. Take care.

Funny how people see what they want to see. I read that article, and thought to myself, "See, there are more than enough comments in here to 'prove' that the security risks with both platforms are equal." But someone else read the exact same comments, and somehow took from it, "The consensus seems to be... get a Mac."

By my count, here are the facts of the article:

15 said the two platforms were equal
10 favored the Mac
6 favored the PC
1 said "other" (I think we can safely assume this means equal. Equally bad is still equal.)
21 said that any advantage the Mac has is primarily due to low market share

Perhaps most notably, one person said the Mac OS actually has a larger exposed surface area than does Windows. Balance that against Argent's completely opposite comments here, and one could easily say we're right back to "they're equal".

Also, browser vulnerabilities were mentioned quite a bit. Of the people who gave specific answers on that subject, here are the numbers.

1 said IE is more secure than Safari
1 said IE and Safari are equally bad
2 said Firefox is the best of the lot
1 said Firefox + NoScript will reduce exposed surface area far more than would simply getting a Mac



When I initially referenced the article, I said, "Draw your own conclusions." Now I'll give you mine. My favorite comment in the entire article was, "The most secure system is the one that you know how to secure." To me, that confirms everything I've been saying all along. Maintain your machine, practice safe behavior, and you'll be fine on either system. Fail to do either of those things, and you'll run into trouble.

I realize, though, that saying the article, either in part or in whole, confirms what I already knew suggests that I'm perhaps being just as dogmatic as anyone else. Undoubtedly, other people with differing viewpoints will also say the article "confirms" their pre-existing thoughts as well, even though those thoughts might be radically different from mine. Some will no doubt exclaim, "It's not dogma; it's fact!" And to them, I'm sure it is. I'd argue just as fervently that my claims all throughout this discussion were facts as well.

Dare I quote Ben Kenobi? "Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

That's because I know who has a clue and who doesn't. I know these people. I know who's got an agenda, and who's doing real science. I know who's actually a category expert in Mac software, and who isn't. I know how real myths get distributed and reinforced, even among experts. I've watched experts change their minds when the myths are unmasked... or not. I've been cut down to size by Marcus Ranum, and changed my mind not because he was an expert but because he made a good solid argument. I've managed to get security flaws in important software you use fixed, by showing the experts who created it where they were making bad assumption.

But don't believe me because I'm saying I'm an authority, or decide I'm wrong because Bruce Schnier is an authority. Understand the arguments I'm making, show me where I'm wrong... or not. If you need to pull up quotes from security experts, find ones that deal with the specific points I'm making at least. For example: if I'm wrong, you should be able to find a real security expert, not beholden to Microsoft, defending the "security zones" model and the way it "fails open".

Technically you're wrong.


There are 40 known viruses for macs. And probably 500 Trojans... thats if you arent running MS office or MS word.. if you are on a mac that uses Office or Word then that number increases to about 600 known viruses and thousands of trojans... The worst part of this is.. to my knowledge (which isnt all that grand) there are NO antivirus scanners for a mac on leopard or OSX .. YES the chance of you getting a virus is drastically reduced.. HOWEVER if you get one.. you are up a creek..

There are several antivirus programs for the Mac. McAfee and Symantec both make them.

Do you have a citation for any active viruses for OS X currently propogating in the wild? There was one that piggybacked on Yahoo Messenger and was purely a social-engineering attack... you had to explicitly save a file and run it to get infected... and it is now defunct. Is your source the same one that claims:

Norton Antivirus.
ClamXav
Sophos
Intego
McAfee
MacScan
iAntivirus

I don't recommend them, but they do exist. The main reason for using one would be to detect and clean Windows viruses from documents and programs colleagues email to you so you don't inadvertently pass them on to another Windows user.

LOL!!! What a Johnny Come Lately...

No virus scanners.. LOL

Ya, this is a really well read and knowledgeable person in the area of Macs.

Well read/knowledgable or not that "Johnny Come Lately" demonstrats the confusion around the two major platforms in use by over 90% of the computer users in the world. This thread has centered mostly around which platform is safer/more secure. Two opposite arguments have been presented quite well.....I would think more than enough for a person reading this thread to make an intelligent decision that fits their personal needs.

Then there's another, unrelated point. Which is "better". That is a subjective topic in spades. For me the "better" platform is Windows. For others Mac wins hands down. It's really a moot and useless argument.........it's old, tired and sometimes comical, which basically shakes down "I like my ice cream on cake" vs "I like my ice cream on pie". Ain't no winners or loosers...........it's what you (the individual) like, want, or are comfortable/familar with.

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/computer-virus/macintosh-faq/


Also I wouldnt put Norton or Mcafee on any computer I owned... in my opinion those programs ARE viruses.. the amount of system resources they use on an average users computer is ridiculous..


And just an fyi.. I use ubuntu 9.04




Peggy I think Mac is VERY good for some things.. mainly graphics design... most of the major movies and big graphics design companies use macintosh.. its clearly superior for that HOWEVER for a basic user.. someone that likes to play video game and chat with their friends online.. a PC is superior yes thats my opinion... its subjective.

I personally dislike windows not because of functionality but because of the anti consumer tactics they use to market their software... I think that an individual should not be forced to pay 200 dollars for an OS.. I think an OS developer should subsidize consumers by charging companies to use their software.. which was the way of the market for the most part before windows 3.11

Again your final comment is really where the debate ends.. Its all about personal preference.. I own 5 Imacs.. I use one as a sound box (for playing music) the other 4 sit in storage collecting dust..

Well, I just got done pointing out that I don't recommend antivirus software. That's one of the reasons... by its very nature, because it does complex pattern matching in a critical path in the system, it's compute intensive. It also reduces the stability and reliability of your computer.

However you were just arguing that such software didn't exist. If it ever becomes necessary, it does, in the meantime it's NOT necessary. That list of "viruses for the Mac" you referenced are all pre-OSX, and it includes some that are specific to the 68000. There hasn't been a 68000-based Mac sold in over 15 years!

But you don't use Windows yourself. And you're uninformed about what's actually available for Macs. So what's the basis for your opinion?





No, really, operating systems were always sold at what the market would bear, one way or another. If you got an OS for "free" you were paying for it in the cost of the hardware. That's what subsidized OS sales, not compilers and the like.

LOL!!!! THE YEAR 2000!!!!!


I guess if FAQS.ORG posts it, ITS A FACT!

LOL!!!

I would never suggest switching to ANY platform (Mac, PC, Linux, FreeBSD, Chrome, etc) to avoid getting Viruses and Spyware. There is no such thing as an operating system that cannot be hacked. There is no such thing as a completely secure, worry free computer.

With that said, at the current moment the Mac doesn't have as many attacks as the PC. However, that is simply due to low market share and is considered a waste of time by many hackers and script kiddies. If you are proned to getting virii on the PC, you will eventually see them on the Mac as well. Especially as social networks such as Facebook continue to grow. Virii and spyware today rely more on social engineering and tricking the user rather than sophisticated programming that tricks the computer.

In terms of a comparison between the PC and Mac... after Windows 7 it's kind of a moot point. They both run the same hardware. They both try to accomplish the same thing. They both have dock menus at the bottom of the screen now. They both look very nice and are very snappy on well tuned systems.

The problem with the PC when comparing to the Mac is that some of the programs available on the PC tend to be a little sloppy and don't always work right with the billion versions of hardware combinations.

The problem with the Mac compared to the PC is that there isn't as much software commercially available. There are tons of freeware available to FreeBSD that have been ported to the Mac, but it lacks the commercial support needed for the masses. Also, even though Macs have switched to Intel, not all Intel compatible hardware has drivers that allow it to work on the Mac. Give it another few years and that problem will dissappear, but then again, so will your Mac that you buy today.

I use a Mac G4 as a file and print server. Every Sunday morning, my 2 PC computers turn on at 6AM automatically and virus scan and backup to the Mac. So, I don't even worry about scanning or backing up anymore.