Notice the creative & imaginative events dwindling?

The Divide and conquer -camping chairs must go- Linden Lab plot was bought by most of the community and now we see the aftermath. In January when I was protesting loudly I didnt get much support /110/e0/79584/1.html Poor Perse fought me tooth and nail. And so here we are. Venues falling like dominoes and Linden Lab with their back turned counting all the money they have squirrled away. Linden Lab is getting exactly what they pay for: nothing.

I've been holding creative events in SL since June of 2005 (less than 2 months after I joined.) I continue to hold them because I love to and because people seem to enjoy them...

I've got some commercial sponsors who donate prizes and lindens for the prize events, and I'd use a box office if the event called for it. I think the box office is a wonderful too for clubs...if you are playing music people love and providing the atmosphere they want, they WILL pay to get in your door. If they won't pay, you are doing something wrong.

Let us not forget we also have the FFRC (Foundation for Rich Content) to lean on when we need help promoting our events, but they can only go so long as they get donations. So, if every seller in SL donated just 10% of their monthly earnings, they would get recognition for a good deed, (cheap marketing!) and the good feeling that comes with knowing they are helping to fund the creative events out there. And if everyone donated 10% of there weekly stipend to the FFRC, we'd be FINE. (I'll admit I've not been doing this, but will begin today!)

SL is a game as long as we treat as such. It can be sooo much more. I like to think of it as a growing community. BUT, it won't continue to grow if we continue don't do our part to give back to the community.

Put your hands back in your pockets and see what you can GIVE!

This 'game' generates quite a nice income for Linden Lab. When Linden Lab relizes that they need Content Providers and they can't have them for free (as they understood when developing the teen grid) they will sit down , fix DI and pull the community back together around this issue.

Using the word 'welfare' like a dirty word to shame folks into not supporting DI for Content Providers seems to be a effective way to end free content in SL and revert the whole thing to a pay-to-play private sim community. Or a empty sandbox for the free account holder with no $L.

Well DI did have to go. Dwell too. It was being abused. But what LL told us they would do, and what they completely didn't do, was to come up with something to replace it. They also said they'd help with ability to charge for events -- that didn't happen either.


Had LL done what they'd said they would do, and continue to help but in a different way, then perhaps the events venues wouldn't be closing.

The other half of this equation is that the events calendar was left to become a stinking pile of poo for so long that no one uses it anymore. Even if you do hold events, no one comes because there's no good way to advertise them.

A lot of fators went into this -- not just the deletion of DI and Dwell alone. Sad to say but people support the sex and they support the *ingo and they support the camping chairs. They don't support other stuff.

Sl residents use the word 'community' quite loosely. If most had been community-minded when LL was tearing down the Content Provider system LL would have had to do what they promised to do. Now we can look forward to a lot more of nothing from LL on this issue.

Luthien, that is very very sad. When I first came inworld, your museum was one of the first places I visited. It's wonderful. I never would have known it was there w/o the events notice. I've visited it several times to remind myself what a beautiful place NZ truly is.

Events & Classifieds both have categories. What if we had categories for places too? Learning Centers, Newbie Centers, Museums, Inworld Games (for those contest games remaining after the annual contest is over), these are just a few categories that might help direct traffic to fun/interesting things to do besides gamble.

One of my favorites is riding Black Bart at Bedazzled Studios. I only found him through word of mouth & do my best to pass along the landmark. Riding a big black scripted prim bull always lifts my spirits! Imagine how much traffic he'd get if he could be listed in a Places category?

That is completely false! PLUS, anyone in SL wants to show off their talents, they want the most people checking out their stuff. A cover charge would completely defeat the purpose of any creative event.

What would cause people to pay at the door:
Money giveaways
Prize giveaways

What people WOULD NOT AND DO NOT pay at the door for (and should):
Live Music Shows
DJ Shows
Art Shows
Any Creative Game or Contest
Any Creative Content 'show-off' (AV shows, vehicles, Homes, etc)

-----People are tipping and donating to the performers, but not to the land owners and the venue owners. and people do not pay to get in

Since Linden Lab has a wonderful website boasting so much to do (all of it provided by us, the paying customers) they should take some responsibility for the cost of attracting customers for them. Either they realize this and we move forward or they dont and we will continue to slide back to being nothing more than a free sandbox.

I have no idea when I last REALLY checked the events listings... Maybe weeks, months? It's just not even worth the look ((



Well, I have visited your New Zealand exhibition, and... WOW!!! It was totally awesome. However, I also was annoyed not to find a 'host' there, because I would've loved to say 'thanks, great work!' to you. I think I left you a message saying that, but it's just not the same

But... sorry, spamming the calendar 5 times a day with non-hosted events IS spamming

That is so untrue. If people are tipping the tip jar, people will pay to get in. When I hold my events, I get donations of at least 1000L each time. I've seen other events get donations of 3K or more. It's just going to take a shift in the way we do things. Currently it's all be "free" because LL has paid for it. I'm saying, it shouldn't be...to an extent. Of course I think, like some first life things are subsidized in the US of A, they might also be in second life. Museums, libraries to name a couple.



nope, not yet...People are tipping the performers because they KNOW the land owners/hosts are getting their DI or dwell. It's CHANGE people, and change is rough for some and easy for others. I think it's a change for the good. I don't know of a single bingo game, or night club in first life that is government subsidized. I believe that folks will come to understand, through education and signage to bring it to their awareness that events cost MONEY. (gee! what a concept!)

And YES there is a BOX office, actually, there are 5 you can choose from. So it's doable, it makes sense and it's a step forward.

Camping chairs did DI in...as long as we demand our "entertainment" in sl be free, it remains a game and will never grow into something beyond that.

Linden Lab is the government and they should subsidize the people that provide content for their platform. LL saves millions in not having to hire content providers. Some of those squirrled away funds should trickle back down to the people that make SL more than a sandbox.




This thread was started by the friend of the person that was as happy about fee-based content as you are. I suggest you scroll back and see what her fate was. The way it was is the way it works. We pay huge tier fees, staffing costs and marketing fees. Linden Labs subsidizes us for developing gathering places and marketing their product to new customers who, in turn, pay huge tier fees...It was a symbiotic relationship. Linden Lab's new 'something for nothing' agenda will continue to fail and bring SL to it's knees.



I dont know a single Bingo game or nightclub that creates a customer base for Linden Lab except the ones folks like me host on the virtual property we pay rent for to LL. Linden Lab is aware that events cost money. And they are gambling that they can get them for free from their paying customers. It is a high risk bet that doesn't seem to be paying off.


I just chased several sensors from the box office across the island to delete them. It may work - for some who can magically move fast enough to set it up. It's not a step forward though. Its a tool folks can use if they choose (or can figure out how). It has nothing to do with LL's responsibilities to its content providers. Just ask the person mentioned in the opneing thread (who was in charge of bringing us the box office)


Linden Lab used camping chairs as a excuse to suck back in the money they were paying content providers in a mis-guided attempt to 'monetize' the company. If LL didnt want camping chairs, there would be no camping chairs. Notice the dissappearance of the Bush Sign guy and a guy named Skinhead. TOS is written in pencil and is quite flexible.


As long as Linden Lab demands free content from its paying customers Second Life will soon become even less than a game. It will become a not-so-fond memory of what not to do to your paying customer base.

Squirreled away funds? Are you forgetting about the billions of Lindens pumped into the system every year via stipends? good grief. Again, it's about givers and takers...nothing wrong with taking, just gotta give something that people are willing to pay for.



I've searched the thread and I have no idea what or who you are talking about. The way is was is the way it WAS. People in SL are more resistant to change than the people in FL. I still think it's a step forward. If we all expected the government in FL to pay for us to create entertainment to bring folks to our Land, (which in FL we either have a mortgage for, or rent), then whole countries would be brought to their knees. The simple difference here is: one group sees SL as a game and the other sees SL full of possibilities. I belong to the second group. I see SL as an extension of FL, like a virtual reality...or the beginnings of one. And like FL, it has to be self sustaining.

Sorry to disagree with most of your thoughts, Lizbeth, but I do respect them. I feel they are a bit idealistic. The 'everyone needs to adjust' method does not work, not in RL and not in SL. (curious Lizbeth, why are you not charging a cover for your events?)

IN RL (which I am a professional event and party producer, and I run entertainment at a venue) you pay a cover charge to get a real experience, you also get real people you feel the event with, you get alcohol, you get drugs, you get music, you get food, you get the experience.... and most importantly, you get talent.
Whatever the reasons are for each person to pay a cover in RL they do not exist in SL.
No matter what the event or performer, every person in SL thinks "hmmm.. an event, I'll check it out for a min." And they know they're not gonna get some wild experience.. they're gonna get some cool build and someone streaming their tunes and thoughts into the land.

This concept of having to adjust by charging a cover.... it's not gonna work.

My thoughts:
A) No one currently charges for events
B) No one currently pays a cover charge
C) No one ever will

SL performances are similar to RL street performances... Not RL venues...
A street performer sets up a hat and collects tips. And the land they use is either some sort of public marketplace (where the owners have stores to rent)... or it's just the street where the govt owns the land. IN SL, storespace rent does not cover land costs.

Doubledown, I'm hoping that my opinion is also respecting your opinion, I'm trying but not always good at that. I do see both sides of the argument, but I think that change is inevitable and know that the events that I have set up will roll with those changes. As you know, I avoid clubs. I am of the opinion that they are a waste of time and effort. I can have an impromtu dance party on my land anytime and you are welcome to DJ. What do I need a night club for? To answer your question: I have a tip jar that is always GENEROUSLY donated to at this point and I am funded by sponsors and the FFRC. I have sponsors that believe my events are worth sponsoring...and they want to be associated with it...just like first life I think. They sponsor it by donating prizes and lindens. And they get advertisement at each event.



And this example is strictly a "night club" experience. Why build a basic night club in Second life??????? WHY WHY WHY??? Why not build something that offers a totally unique experience that only Second Life can host? Why just dancing and the same scenery I would see if I went out clubbing in my FL??? Let's face it...what you DO is a skill, a nightclub is ONE Venue in which you can show that skill...but what if you performed in various places...and you were good enough that people would hire you to spin your tunes at an art gallery opening or a party? They pay you...they charge an entry fee...just like Real Life. The experience is different from first life yes...and can be so much MORE!




A. Yes this is true
B. Not technically no, but they are willing to donate to events they like.
C. that will change. I'll bet on it.





For now, that is pretty much how it works for SL performances. But again, as I said before...it can change...Most of the performers get paid up front already, the tip jar is extra frosting on their cake (and not much in FL $ but then if they want FL $ they should be playing more in FL...gotta roll with the lay of the land here.) So, the land owner pays the performer, and then charges a fee for people who want to come see/hear them play. I would pay some lindens to attend a Jaycatt show and a few others in SL, no problem. I know there are many others who would do the same.

If storespace rent does not cover land costs, then the business model is faulty and the mall or shop area will soon close anyway. Too many folks come in and try to do what 30 thousand have tried before them, build a club, build a mall...and they fail because they are going for what they hope will be easy money, but not well thought out. (Trust me I am speaking from experience here.) But even I found a way to do what I am best at and works for me.

And again, I do think LL needs to find a way to support creative events in SL, but I don't think they need to support nightclubs, sex clubs, casinos, *ingo games or any other "cookie cutter" business out there. I don't see them supporting the creators of clothing, furniture, buildings, automobiles and all the other stuff we can buy in SL...I don't know why they should help out the other types of content either.

LL got those billions(?) from the tier payments of their paying customers. In your scenario Linden Lab is the taker of free content and we are the givers. I give something that LL should definitely pay for, as they had up to March of this year. LL is still advertising that SL is FREE and showing content created from it's paying customers on the web page to increase it's customer base. Even in Florida companies pay to increase their customer base and their earning potential.









I see Linden Lab as a service provider (not unlike my cable company). LL is just a company out to make a buck and cut expenses anyway they can. Can't blame them for that. But I'm not silly enough to endorse a group-hug to a corpoaration that wants me to pay it huge monthly fees and work to increases its customer base without any compensation. I am sure there will always be folks liek you that think scrounging for Lindens from thousands of free accounts is progress. But that is not a viable solution to LL's responsibility to its content providers. A real solution must be worked out soon so all of LL's free accounts can have something more to do than sit in sandboxes or in welcome areas. You speak of being self-sustaining; LL should listen to you and HIRE content providers (as they did for the teen grid) and this would be a mute issue. But since they want free what they have until just recently paid for, this continues to be a issue. This thread was started because folks are noticing the dwindling of events since LL decided getting something for nothing was their new policy. When will cheerleaders like you come down off of your 'be the change' high and start working on some real solutions like the rest of the community?


Content providers should be subsidized by LL because LL benefits from the work of conetnt providers. LL doesn't support bad content but they do ignore it until it reached critical mass (Bush Sign Buy, camping chairs, free accounts).


Oh, but you have to give them credit for trying


As we need to be self-sustaining - so does LL. They can hire content providers and I'll happily pay my tier and pay to enter LL's amusement parks, nightclubs and concert halls. There won't be the bad lag problems because there will be less folks to lag a sim when its a entry-fee only world. And LL can meet their weekly content provider payroll by awarding less stipends to residents because there wont be any need to tier- need to save those Linden$ to get in that club.



I pay my money to Linden Lab each month. The FFRC is a special interest group supporting their own agenda by playing the 'censorship-with-dollars' game - my money goes to my tier, my staff and for marketing purposes. Just because a corporation and a few fanbois are forcing a change down the throat of it's paying customers doesn't make it a good thing. As I said; LL boasts that it is FREE to join SL and then they show some wonderful dance parties, slingo, beach festivities, etc. All user designed content. Either its a bait-and-switch scam (like the price of telehub land) or they mean free for Linden Lab and the rest of us pay and pay again.

Well, as I've said, there are two VERY different viewpoints here. One is that SL is a game and that other is what SL can be...I've said my piece, you've said yours, I'll leave it at that.

You said SL was a game - I made no such claim. SL can be many things. What it can't be is a place where content providers work for free, pay huge tier fees and cover the cost of staffing and marketing without some sort of support from the company that benefits from the hard work. Just maintaining daily traffic figures is not supporting Content Providers. The empty promises made by Linden Lab last year to develop a new system remain just that - thanks to 'community' members like you who always fall for corporate divide-and-conquer schemes.

Let's not make it personal Bladyblue, let's just agree to disagree.

Have a fun day!

This is an excellent conversation. Liz, i take no offense to your thoughts, defintely respect them.

Either the residents make a change or they dont... but either way, currently, and for months now, the creative entertainment and events are dropping to almost nothing.

It definitely was a bait-and-switch. I joined, bought my land, developed my company, created financially successful events at my venue.... and then LL completely removed dwell incentive... which was a major attribute to staying afloat.

Liz, I do DJ at other places in SL.... I even started doing standup comedy at a comedy club.... and I joined in on some art gallery exhibitions..... but all this has nothing to do with being able to create a successful profitable venue.

This is an excellent conversation. Liz, i take no offense to your thoughts, defintely respect them.

Either the residents make a change or they dont... but either way, currently, and for months now, the creative entertainment and events are dropping to almost nothing.

It definitely was a bait-and-switch. I joined, bought my land, developed my company, created financially successful events at my venue.... and then LL completely removed dwell incentive... which was a major attribute to staying afloat.

Liz, I do DJ at other places in SL.... I even started doing standup comedy at a comedy club.... and I joined in on some art gallery exhibitions..... but all this has nothing to do with being able to create a successful profitable venue.

This is an excellent conversation. Liz, i take no offense to your thoughts, defintely respect them.

Either the residents make a change or they dont... but either way, currently, and for months now, the creative entertainment and events are dropping to almost nothing.

It definitely was a bait-and-switch. I joined, bought my land, developed my company, created financially successful events at my venue.... and then LL completely removed dwell incentive... which was a major attribute to staying afloat.

Liz, I do DJ at other places in SL.... I even started doing standup comedy at a comedy club.... and I joined in on some art gallery exhibitions..... but all this has nothing to do with being able to create a successful profitable venue.

i will be quick

-no LL should NOT hand free cash to pay for your garage party, because this is all i see in most SL clubs, cheap garage parties, and in RL when i make a garage party i usually eat the bill.

-yes the events should ask a cover charge, if you refuse obstinately to ask for one i see 2 reasons:
-->you consider the provided entertainment is too crappy to ask peoples to pay for it (hell you even need to bribe em to come!) , as a solution, shut up and eat the price, nobody buy crap.
--> you belive entertainment should be free and want to offer free entertainment. solution, eat the price as someone have to.

-since i am in sl we have the entry tickets function, it work very well, so use it if you believe your event is wort to be paid for

This isn't about parties in a virtual environment - its about creating content for a virtual environment. The programmers aren't volunteers and neither should the content providers - who also support SL by paying tier fees, salaries and buying event devices from SL retailers. Linden Lab benefits directly from the work of the content providers and therefor is obligated to support those efforts. If there is no support forthcoming from Linden Lab you won't have to worry about anymore garbage parties in SL Kyrah. Do enjoy your virtual desert. Unless you have an idea for a workable soloution for Linden Lab to support its Content Providers.

Thank you Blady! once again, my thoughts exactly.....


after talkin about this on this thread, and seeing all the posts about quality of SL life goin to shit.. it's just so obvious people are gonna start getting out.... a majority of oldbies are gettin out... there are just too many rule changes which are causing SL to go down the drain.... not just events, but everything.. the new no-verifications, the scams, and just the overall crap ... its showing us oldbies how LL treats their long-term clients.... I can't really think of one good reason to own land anymore except for SL building addiction...

I gotta agree, and for comparison as a live DJ (as opposed to a live music performer), I usually get paid in tips a lot more than the event staff does. Live music is one of the best things to happen in SL in a long time. Clubs is a tough bizness.