Event Hosts Gather Here: How to Live Without LL

Instead of panicing, or throwing hands up in dispair over what will become of your next cool event idea without LL support, let's discuss how to fund our events without it.

Events like Bingo and Tringo will probably continute on their own feet, as most of their pots are already donated by the players.

There may not be so many free raffles or money balls anymore, but paid lotteries will continute...clubs could switch over to 50/50 raffles perhaps.

Primtonary? I'm a big fan of the Primtonary games at TLC...Jamie, you out there? You're an instructor who holds multiple classes daily...you'll be making out well from this new policy, so please tell us that Primtonary will continue

Some of the big business owners like Anshe Chung will still be paying people to host events on their land. How mignt smaller groups with less land and income impliment such schemes?

Is a contest entry fee/cover charge of L$10 or similar price so bad? Will it actualy deter people from attending? It doesn't in RL.

How should individual hosts (like me and Plywood Chef, SL SURVIVOR, etc) support their events and still be able to hand out prize money, and maybe still benifit themselves to some degree?

*bump*

I'm going to move this over to Event discussion, where there may be more interest in this discussion.

Forgot about that forum...wasn't sure whether to post in General or Economy. ^.^ Thanks, Jeska.

*re-bump*

1. Events used to be a pleasurable experience that you didn't have to PAY to attend.
2. Sure, Instructors will make-do with this new policy. But does that remove any of the genuinity of becoming a Mentor, or an Instructor, for the sole purpose of HELPING others? Or has it effectively created a job class where you are paid to help people? I have many feelings on this.
3. Of course, big businesses like Anshe can support the events playerbase. But, what does that also mean? It means that Anshe Corp. et al effectively owns the entertainment business. This is AFTER she already overthrew the land baroning business. Why do you see this as a good thing?
4. Great, donations will make events function. But where, again, will the playerbase earn the money to be donated to events? Last I knew, the big event attendees aren't the big-name designers. Hell, I've never seen Anshe Chung at a single one of my events, or any other for that matter. SOCIAL players donate their stipend money and bonus money--their "welfare money" as some people call it--to make events "go."
5. Lastly. There are players in this game that have hundreds of thousands of L$. With the fully revised stipend system (no bonuses,) social players will make 50L a week. How is it that rich players won't get richer, and poorer players will get poorer?

*I must add, that I really appreciate your genuine attempt at easing the hearts and minds of event hosts everywhere. That is both invaluable and generous. I simply think that what you have suggested is true, yet deeply detrimental to the way Second Life handles its events (and everyday second living, for that matter.)

it seems that in order to build one needs a number of very expensive programs. One must have poser, photoshop and likely a scanner to be competitive in the NEW WORLD ORDER of the SL economy. Like the new world order OUTSIDE of sl, the new world order inside sl also has a gender bias. One must build or script or teach those particular skills in order to be marketable with the new changes to the SL economy. Using the gender traditional female strengths (organizing, community building, tend and befriend strategies) will no longer garner as much real worth. I would be willing to lay odds that many new players will find much less satisfaction in the game. For an events host like me who specializes in rl entertainment (not just costume contests, but actor improv in game) this is disasterous because it will be tough to convince my best players to come out when they will be busy isolating themselves to try to make the most of their meagre textures. Perhaps I am painting a grim picture, but sometimes that's what the future looks like. less social life and less fun. maybe less women willing to stick around long enough to learn how to make money when they can't afford to buy it any longer. ~ unhappy female growls at the lindens. growl growl. but overall a loyal SLer (don't beat me big brother). hehe

Events at Centre Ville Malls will remain pleasurable experience that you won't have to pay for. As will events in countless other places.

Mmmm, yes. And I think you forget that event support by Lindens was paid for with taxes and inflation.



Most effective way for me make money would be:

1. Stop Land Angels program
2. Stop Chung Support program
3. Stop land rental program
4. Shut down radio station
5. Stop charity donations
6. Stop hiring builders
7. Stop posting on forums
8. Close all malls
9. Spend 100% of my time trading land

Please, we don't need more conspiracy theory. I could give away L$ to newbie and you would say I take over Second Life by buying newbies. Mmmm, wait! You wouldn't be first Catherine was there before...



High volume, low margin, better service. It is true that I destroyed the "land baroning business". What is left is realtor business with people who work ass off to make profit. Working 80 hour weeks myself I sent all the lazy bone land barons to hell.



The Lindens also don't come to your events. What unsocial people they must be. Lets all flame them for not donate "welfare money" to make your events "go"



I joined Second Life in March 2004, almost one year later than many other people. My initial investment was exactly 9,95$ for basic account. I came here because I did not feel good paying 13$ per month for SWG subscription while I still have relatives in China who have to survive with very little money. So my income was 50 L$ per week while others had hundreds of thousands of L$ on their accounts. But instead of hanging around at raffle balls and make love rest of time I spent effort, providing service to people and creating content. Hard work made me succeed. Anybody with same dedication and willingness work hard can achieve same. But whining about being "poor" will never get you anywhere.

I started with free trial copy of Paintshop Pro. I used scanner of neighbour. Later I bought one used copy of Poser 4.0 from EBay using money I earned in Second Life.

To be competitive you need work harder than others.

I plan to do occasional events of various types, whether art and architecture exhibits, debates, various other activities people come up with (like we hope to have an inventory clean-out and give a prize to however puts out the most from their inventory for others LOL).

I will just pay out of my pocket for the costs of doing the event and giving prizes. I will probably have to give less prizes but maybe they will more in demand now.

With the lost of the grants and more practically, the loss of the stipend delta obtained from exchanging ratings at my events or others' events, I will have to shamelessly hold events on land I'm trying to sell or rent, on commons and gathering spaces that I asked to be built into these communities. That's probably the only way I could justify the cost of Lindens and time involved.

When I resume with the Tribal Drums I will do it this way:
I plan on purchasing a pot board from a certain developer in world. I will put in what I can spare for that evenings event and the board will be available for attendants to donate to for the prize winner of my contests. Simple, easy and no cover charges.

Maybe at one time you could start without poser, without really honed building or scripting skills and with the infrequent use of borrowed equipment. I am not saying that your path wasn't a valid one for then. However, the market will be significantly more competitive as those of us mediocre or poor builders flood the landscape with vendors and hope someone sees our work earlier from the hub than the work of experienced and well outfitted builders (the ones who enjoy this work so they do it) in order to make enough money to rate people. I am not even talking about some huge disposable income here. With increased costs, I will have to buy lindens merely to rate back! My skills and considerable education are geared toward events management. Now the only way to do that is to cater to moneyed builders with my events (no one else will be able to afford to go) or buy money so i can pay people out of pocket for showing up. This new policy is disasterous for me and for those like me who do not possess your resources (and here i do not mean merely financial ones; not everyone is born to be a builder/scripter/seller)

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see this post in General (hopefully link will work)

I have an event stage in Freelon that anyone is welcome to use for free to host events. I'm also more than willing to donate prizes or sponsor events. All anyone needs to do is ask

And there's the rub. I admire your hard work Anshe. I think that you have done an incredible job of making SL your JOB, and obviously you have been very prosperous in doing this.

The difference between you and most of those that are complaining about the recent changes...and I'd venture to say those others that often bash you...is that you are here to work, and they are here to play.

Personally, I'm not offended by your land sales or the other things you do. Many of your actions are beneficial to the game...some maybe not so beneficial...but thats just an opinion. I have a full time job in RL that has a high stress level (which translates to a pretty decent salary). So I come to SL to play.

I think what people need to realize is that, like it or not, this is a SOCIAL game. It's the SOCIAL aspects that are going to attract people to SL and keep people in SL. Without people, there will be no one to sell land to, sell clothes, hair, gadgets to, and no one to need money from IGE and GOM.

One man's opinion,
~Jaz

I understand how important linden support is to many event hosts. I have hosted a few events myself, not as frequently as I'd like to though. But, I didn't do it for the linden support, I did it becuase I love to meet new people and help them. As I am sure most of you event hosts do! So, some event hosts will find hosting events as a fun experience and may be generous enough to still host contests and whatnot with their own lindens...even though it may not be as feasable as before...many kudos to those people! However, not many people CAN do that or will...there are many event hosts who do rely on support for the events they host.Sooooo we(the residents of SL) need(not need as in manditory but need as in we owe it to our community to TRY to help eachother ) to figure out a way to support events, at first I thought that maybe businesses of SL could sponsor events (much like a BMX rider gets sponsored). Would it be beneficial to the sponsors if they gave linden support just to have their name at the event(and also perhaps some products to be shown at/donated to the event)? I want to know what you think! I'm pretty sure that there will be two sides to this, as some people may see advertisement at an event to be benificial, it is much like a gamble...advertising gets your name out there but doesn't guarantee to boost your sales. Other aspects may be argued as well such as...how much is a business willing to give and is it enough to keep the event host and itself happy? Maybe only some businesses who don't mind taking the risk of advertising at a particular event will sponsor events...but I think it may be one way to get ahead as businesses become more and more competetive.

*It's pretty late here and I'm getting tired so I dunno if what i posted makes any sence LOL I dunno if i wrote in the right way but I tried not to pick sides lol(does anythigng i just said make sence)....i better go to sleep soon i feel funny o_O anyways huggers EVERYONE I'm glad to be part of this community, if i dont know you...dont be a stranger IM me I just thought we could all use a hug hehe

-I took a while to post this and it turns out theres already a thread on event sponsorship oopsies...runs over to that thread o_O sorry guys im just really tired LOL

The Neo-Realms group has pretty much decided this:
1. Lower the amount of prize money.
2. Increase the amount of physical prizes.
3. Try to make people happy with this by offering exclusive prizes for all categories, instead of just the Tournament Champion.
4. Keep the donation pots out in order to offer a larger cash prize.

We are trying our best to keep the tournaments running, we started this for fun, and the Linden support allowed us to run many tournaments when we did not have the extra money to do so. We were hoping this would continue, but alas, it cannot be so. So, we will save where we can, I personally am getting rid of one of my apartments to save money for hosting tournaments, and continue on in the best way we know how.

I would like to thank everyone who attends our tournaments.

So this means the space is free. (check) and the prizes are available. (check) but now how do we pay for the person doing the million IMs, inviting people out, answering questions, advertising the event, and making sure it goes off as planned? There must at some level be linden support I think, or those people attending will have to be willing to pay at the door. SOME of my event attendees have contributed toward a fund to pay for future events, but some invitees have (when prizes got lowered to $100) said stuff like "it's not worth my time to perform for that small of a prize"! So, a significant shift in mentality among events attendees will have to take place to make this work. Or, space owners who get meagre dwell benefits will have to be so proud of their properties as to pay several times what they get in benefit to events hosts to manage events. Do you see? asking $250 for 5 hours of my time isn't all that much to be honest, but I am happy doing that, so it is worth it. If I can make the meagre $250 per event that I used to in some other way. So far it is not businesses but individuals who are keeping the sceners competitions running, and contributions have made it possible for them to continue (with restructured prize offerings) through the end of February. Sooner or later, though, my friends are gonna run out of money! lol

One way I am saving $ to do the events most dear to me is to cut down on the rl $ i spend on 2nd life. In other words, I already downgraded one premium account to standard, and plan to do the same with a 2nd when I have sold my getaway cabin. Unfortunately this means less money for the Lindens, but hey! from that money alone in just a couple of months I can afford to buy that scanner and make some more chairs or something to give away at events. lol. (people pretty much hate my chairs, so we can only hope they get better.)

Dragonchiq, as usual, your ideas are refreshing Yes, I think that "resident-sponsored events" will be the way the New World Order will work.

To add my L$0.02...

While people still insist that SL is a "game", reality (or second reality...) shows us that this is less and less the case. To thrive in SL, you have to work hard, and employ your own RL skills to develop a successfull business, or at least, to manage a network of contacts that allows you to survive. I fully agree that after 2 years of SL or so, "amateurs" (even well-intended amateurs) simply can't keep the pace of "professionals". And this is not undervaluating amateurs. It's a fact of life - both first & second life.

This is something that everybody experiences after a few months in SL. It's a tough "game". Competition is done by professionals - professional artists, programmers, event hosters. And trust me, they will survive, and they won't be affected by not having Linden sponsorship.

Indirectly, what we're seeing is a change from a "welfare state" where you get money no matter what your skills and qualifications are, towards a "capitalist state" where you earn money according to your (RL) skills. While I understand that SL may become uninteresting to those expecting a "free lunch", the truth is, SL is increasing in quality. You simply refuse to pay L$ 300 for a dress that doesn't have perfectly-aligned textures. Or to pay for a builder that can't align walls properly. Or an event hoster that just brings over 3 people, and bores them to death. So, the New World Order means less amateurism, more professionals, more quality.

The words "the richer are getting richer and the poorer remain poor" rings a bell. Pure welfare states have the problem of encouraging lazyness if you're paid no matter how unskilled you are - or how low quality your services/products are. The recent changes - while they originally are just a measure to control inflation - will focus on quality and innovation. While, of course, leaving the "well-intended amateurs" behind. As in RL, there is a place for the "well-intended amateur" - but it's the professionals that strive.

Another trend that I really want to see to happen is having the SL grid more realistically offering services, according to its population density. The grid is about the size of a 1- or 2-million city, and has the amount of clubs, malls and casinos for a city of that size. However, we are just 17 or 18 thousand residents, and perhaps only 3 or 4 thousand regularly connect (over one hour per day, every day, on average). This means you cannot possible have 500+ clubs or 500+ malls to support that tiny population! So far, you managed to support that, because LL was artificially giving residents money for them to support their empty clubs and malls. But only a handful were really successfull - the others survived with sponsored events or by doing "rating parties", etc.

The New World Order will mean much less clubs and malls. I'll not be surprised if there will be only 5 or 6 really big malls, and perhaps the same amount of 24-hour-working clubs. That's the maximum that our current population is really able to support. And, if you look at the tons of items for sale, you'll understand that the group of top designers is also very, very small. So, the amateur clothes designers have basically 3 options:

- substantially lower the price of clothes (say, to L$ 2 or so...)
- gain a lot of experience designing clothes fast
- give it up, close shop, try to explore another niche

In any case, it's the consumer that wins. Only high-quality products will be available for a high price tag, and you can pick up lower-quality products for a small amount.

The same, of course, will apply to hosted events. Let me try to explain better with an example...

Previous model for becoming a successful club owner:

- stick a few prims together. Paint them black/red or use a texture and apply it all wrongly (who cares? People go to your club just for going "woot" any time someone wins a contest, right?).
- buy the required "machines": a dance machine, a lighting system, a fogging machine
- set the streaming URL to one of your favourite radios
- announce "Sexy Avatar Events"
- IM everybody on your contact list
- go "woot" a lot

Expected return: hmm, at least L$ 250 per event per day, plus a few extra for dwell. If you hold a party per day, that's L$ 7500/month. Not bad, for a zero-quality setup! And there will ALWAYS be a small group of people around to earn the free cash.

Current model for becoming a successful club owner:

- start with a CONCEPT. People go to clubs they like. It's hard to please everybody, so that's why clubs in RL tend to fill niches. SL clubs need to do the same in order to compete.
- define an environment that integrates with the concept. This means carefully building the club, paying premium for a professional architect or interior decorator (yes, they're around in SL, too)
- marketing. You need an image which you have to promote. "Yet Another Club" is simply not possible to marketeer nowadays. Your image has to reflect the uniqueness of your environment. Go to the successful clubs in SL (and RL!) to see what they have which is unique. Learn about your market, your customers' expectations. What will you have to do to make them come to your club instead of going to your competitors' club?
- right now, successful clubs need at the very least two things: great music - and this means a DJ which accepts orders and has experience in DJing for hours and make it interesting - and a friendly environment.
Note that an SL DJ is not someone who knows how to setup WinAmp and a Shoutcast server and has 500 CDs of dance music at home. If it were so, you'd see RL clubs crammed full of amateur DJs. It takes much more than that to be a successful DJ. You need to understand the mood of your customers. You have to give them a consistent music choice - which has your personal touch, but is pleasuring to most your customers - while accepting orders once in a while. And as the mood swings, the DJ has to take care of that as well. To be very honest, I only know about a handful of people in SL that really, really know how to do this well - to the point that, in the middle of a very intense punk session, they're able to mix in a Christmas carol or a song from the Monthy Python, have everybody spontaneously laugh, clear the mood, and hit them again with another half an hour of classical punk - finishing the event with everybody begging for more. It's really hard to do this properly!
Finally, unlike what happens in RL clubs... SL clubs encourage not only private IMs, but also public chat. The hosts have to be entertainers. They have to encourage customers to have fun, enjoy themselves, engage in conversation, make them return the next day because they know they'll find the same environment and the same nice group of people.

If you can create that kind of environment - you're going to be able to have people paying to attend your events!

This is something that has been going out of fashion lately. Since most events are of such low quality, you expect to attend them for free. That's understandable - low quality means exactly that it's hard to charge for that. As soon as the quality increases, you'll be able to charge premium for it. And we already have all the mechanisms for dealing with admittance payment - buying passes, using donation boxes.

Imagine that your favourite DJ is holding a party at a club and you really, really want to attend that - would you be willing to pay, say, L$ 10 to attend? Perhaps the notion of "paying to go to a club" may sound horrible to you right now, but the question is - if the club is really great, the DJ is a master, and the environment is excellent, won't you spend L$ 10 on it? Even if you're on Basic? After all, it's cheaper than a rating...

I think that what this means is that the 500 clubs who use Model #1 will disappear in a question of weeks. The dozen or so clubs that use Model #2 right now will be able to ask an admittance fee of L$10-100 and thus be able to pay either the DJ, the dancers, a raffle, whatever, and still make a tiny, tiny profit. I believe this to be possible. What I don't believe is in the viability of the Model #1 clubs to survive. They'll slowly close doors and their owners will try other niches. Competition is going to be much, much tougher!

Speaking strictly for myself - and a plug follows! - I usually go to either the Brimstone's or the Rockers' Requiem. Both qualify on the type of Model #2 clubs, despite a certain difference in size However, I have donated to both regularly, around L$ 100 each time when I go there - the amount varies on how much I have earned that day by selling my items on SL Exchange (another plug!). I'm not being overly generous. Since I do some successful business myself, which gives me some extra income, I'm more than willing to spend it on quality items/services. The same applies to clothing - there are so many low-priced, low-quality clothes around (yes, even the ones I design myself ), why should I buy them, if I can get top-quality stuff for L$ 200 or 300?

So, what I see happening is, a completely different way of thinking about the way we earn and spend money. I think that most people will concentrate and focus on those areas where they are making real money - instead of those that are "fun to do" - and spend money only on the things that are really worth it.

Yes, this will mean that people offering better products will get richer, while amateurs and freeriders will earn nothing. Unfair? No. It's just called capitalism

We have been testing fee bingo at the Miru Airport for over a week now, since the changes were annouced. Our new rule is charging $20 per card per game and players are allowed to play up to 2 cards each. 70% of that money goes to the pot, and 30% goes to the house. The split info is posted at the location so the players are aware of the split. So far, we see only a minor drop in attendance. And ppl still donate additionally to the pot. I think we are going to continue with this format for the time being. We welcome your feedbacks.

It would be truly sad if newbies were unable to afford to join games, though.

The only bright side to this sad state of affairs is that now perhaps events that do not offer prizes may become more competitive.

Also, I forsee a booming business in tip jars.

Subvention is a real economy breaker. That's the case everywhere. They started it out.. but had to reduce it.



I don't mind if people feel like having to get paid to teach. Better. More teachers. The ones that didn't care about it + the ones that do. Heck, maybe I'll get into teaching. That *was* one of the desired outcomes of the changes.



You probably wouldn't be saying this if it were you who was rich.



???



Bonuses aren't gone. In fact, I got mine this week.. more than I expected, actually. I doubt that anyone recieves *only* 50L a week.

Just shedding a little light on my views from your post. I am *not* flaming...

I'd like to remind people not to make assumptions. I have been in Second Life for over a year and a half. No one knows my wealth in this game except for me.