Origin of SL subcultures?

OK, Just a note on that Malkin, that being a "friend of an admin" still doesn't give people any more say in dictating rules in Luskwood.

We have a lot of friends. Sometimes our friends do things that could have had the benefit of better judgement. Nobody's infallable or beyond reproach.

So if it's going on, even if they're a friend, we want to talk to them about that, so it doesn't become an outstanding problem.

We're trying to keep the place as a lucid and level-headed part of the fandom, but of course we just can't be there 24/7...

Thanks for the followup, though.

As soon you stop to belittle others shure.
You know, as long people show the courtesy to allow my little kinks i dont have a problem with there kinks.

For anyone who cares...

I'm a furry, and I've spent much much time in the text based furry worlds such as Tapestries... or my primary place, Furnet.

Actually, I don't go to either of those places anymore, but when I did, someone showed me some screenshots/movies made in SL... I had read about SL... but when I saw that media... I had never wanted to join something so badly before! We can be ANYTHING here, it's AMAZING! o.@

Community doesn't really cut it with BDSM or Gor in SL. When I first started exploring I was surprised to find that there isn't really a community feel such as one finds with furs or vampyres... and you can't count on there being a level of knowledge among the people who are part of BDSM or Gor in SL. The very most you could say there was is a loose collection of sims/groups which include BDSM or Gor in their philosophy.


Well, that basically seems to be the *point*. I don't think many people involved in a BDSM lifestyle would accept that Gor IS BDSM, except as roleplay. Anyone actually involved in a realistic Gor lifestyle would be breaking the safe, consensual aspect of BDSM, because the slavery is absolute, and involves the complete erosion of any rights on the part of the slave.

There are male slaves in Gor, but generall it seems to revolve around the idea that males are naturally dominant, and any woman can be made a slave. At least, all women in the book seem to be interchangeably free/slave.


From what I have observed in SL, you will find everything from lifestyle Goreans to roleplayers who are mainly interested in the honour system and hierarchical aspects.

It is as well to note that most Gor sims ask you to wear a title and respect their specific rules, which are often delivered at length by notecard on arrival. Some places ban furries or non-human aliens, which seems a bit daft when Gor is supposed to be counter-earth, another planet, and ruled by alien insects.

Many Gor sims are up to the wire on prims, use a lot of textures etc in their markets, and therefore it is like wading through custard trying to move around. Some are no-fly.
What with that and the notecard rules, it does become somewhat fatiguing to do a big Gor tour, so it might be as well to space out the visits!
bws
Cali

I was in the Gorean scene in several online arena's, last of which being Sims-online. When I imported my household of free's and kajirae here back in 2004 there was only one, maybe two small Gorean encampments in SL. And nobody was ever there. Never met the builders of these places. So we found ourselves rather isolated. But some curious types did come visit us, saw my kajirae in action and said, " This could be interesting." Somewhere between now and then there was an explosion of Gor roleplayers, many of which seemed to kick off their enthusiasm of the scenerio with the advent of the original Port Kar, not a bad build and it actually encompassed an entire sim and not just a little outpost in some corner. Several of those early visitors of ours went on to invest some money and create their own Gorean cities, which were rather well done. Now Gor sims seem to pop up all time. The problem with this is that the core group which plays the scenerio is not substantial enough to support all the Gorean sims out there. The result being mostly empty Gorean builds and feeble if any roleplay. They still do attract the curious though, who wander in and leave shaking their heads wondering what all the fuss is about. I visit these Gor sims on occasion and discuss philosophy or kajirae training, maybe have a warm ka-la-na by a fire watching some dancing girl recite her prose, lol. But overall I stay to myself in my corner of the SL world and wonder if this can be done right. Or if it will just be panthergirls hassling warriors on the docks, freemen arguing with invading furries, or nifty little swordfight tournements in the Gor stadiums.
Maybe such things are entertaining enough for most, but John Norman wrote close to 30 books fleshing out his planet of Gor. Thats plenty of matierial that can be used to base a rich roleplaying experience for those with the inclination to do so. I wish you most well.

Sadly enough I dont thinks its possible for Norman's Gor to exist within SL. Having been involved in it and running the 2nd Port Kar there just arent enough people who wish to adhere to the books to get anywhere near the rich roleplaying experience. What you end up with is mostly drama with very little RP sprinkled in. Now dont get me wrong I had alot of fun but there is a big difference between Norman's Gor, and SL Gor.

What i have seen and disucssed Gor sims mainproblem is they they adhere to the rules and one or two books and thats about it.

Plus al the tiny details wich make a culture alive (and wich cant be described in a book) are missing, because they where not described in the books... ARGH!

Beside the total slavery and "Natural masters" philosophie is for my taste to close to nazi ideas what i found in the mainpart of gor sims was ...stagnation.

A few communities are a live and kicking, but they dont <gasp> mind a furry visiting 0.o

@Lewis

This is SL. There is nothing wrong with furries wanting to be furries. You can be an oven toaster or washing machine if you want.

Since time immemorial people had urges to be something they're not. People wanted to be like birds and fly (check out da Vinci while you're at it). People want to be cool, bad ... furry, gor, japanese, robot, vampire, fairy, goth ...

There are some for whom WALKING or "HEARING" is something they're not.

SL allows you to be anything you want to be. Let people be. Furries don't interfere with anyone's fun. They may disturb your worldview, but not your fun.

I'm no furry but my experience of furries so far is that they've been the *nicest* people I've met in the game on the average (heck, even if I took them individually). In contrast the worst people I've met all have human avatars.

You dare to suggest that SL Gor should strive to be more than a frantic attempt to exactly copy the contents of books? That its inhabitants should strive to be themselves and true to their natures, passionately and proudly, rather than to struggle awkwardly to perfectly mirror the very limited scope of people presented in those books?

Perish the thought! Nay, 'tis only that the perfect copy has not yet been made! Surely another Gor sim will rise, this one determined to be even more Gor than all Gor before it, and then yet another, and so the drive to perfection, to the Goriest of all the Gors, shall progress until one day, the Gor to end all Gors, more Gor than any Gor before, shall at last be born. Mention never again these notions of "culture" and originality and things not found in the holy books!

LMAO

I think you forgot to add the ancient struggle to avoid being Disney-Gor

Ah. This is why I've seen so very few elves in the real world. Very helpful, thank you.

Yesh.

At the risk of being controversial -

From what I've been told by real Goreans who live the life both in the world and online, from what I've read and heard (I once spent an evening discussing gender issues with John Lange (Norman) - who is an academic philosopher and an afficianado of Nietzsche and evolutionary psychology - along with a handful of science fiction writers at a conference), and from what I've seen in my short sojourn here -

Goreanism is more a philosophy and a cultural alternative than a means of recreation through play-acting. The costs associated with being true-to-form are a stoic part of that philosophy and integral to its culture - something you could never experience from pretending in a virtual world. Lange himself pointed out that the vast majority of "Goreans" simply don't "get it", largely because it involves an intricate intellectual and behavioral paradigm that requires real life committment and paying a real life price. When queried recently about online Goreanism, his reaction was, well, virtually the same.

Disclaimer follows: I'm no Gorean, and no fan of Lange's attempts to create a philosophy of evolutionary psychology to codify gender, nor to fictionalize it in a series of novels based on Nietzschean natural order and the Edgar Rice Burroughs mystique.

I beg to differ Crissaegrim. Theres many more online roleplayers playing the Gorean scenerio than real lifers who embrace the concepts of John Norman as a lifestyle. Humans have spent thousands of years attempting to toss off the yokes of oppression by the upper caste. And women have fought hard and long for the right to be treated as equals. The 'costs' of achieving these goals has often been great. A real life commitment to the beliefs that women are the naturally submissive sex and thus their place in our society should be deemed that below the male? Or that those not born into higher society should be enslaved?? That wont fly in the modern age. Maybe in some backwoods trailer somewhere where a wife weeps with an icepack applied to her eye. Seeking honor and truth? A great appreciation of beauty? That aspect of the Gorean philosophies works well in any civilization. Gor is a fantasy realm, thats where it belongs.
Freedom to choose what to do between consenting adults, what fantasies to play out, what avenues to explore in your free time, these are things which have been fought for. Are there guys out there who believe they are Nietzschean supermen and real life Gorean masters? Sure. Do they have women at their feet pretending to be slaves? Sure. Some are simply submissives who enjoy being in that position. But unless they are committing the crime of kidnapping its all voluntary. And they are satisfying their own personal kinks. Whether one decides to play their game in their living room in person, or online in a virtual playscape makes no difference. But perhaps online its a lot less dangerous. Some guys really believe this stuff. But a trekkie that calls himself a real life Klingon does not make him so, and diminishes his credibility.

Not quite true. Few furries believe they actually *are* wolves, lions, tigers, foxes, etc.... but quite a few people believe there actually *is* an invisible skydaddy.

Good evening,
I was for a very long time in the Gorean community. I can tell you for a Fact it didn't spring into existance on the Net, but existed Long before. Gor, Furries, Trekies, Star Wars Enthusiasts, Victorians, Vampires, WWII recreationists, Urban Cowboys,,,, God, the List is Endless, and Most if not All predate the advent of the Internet, let alone Games such as Second Life.
Humans are Creatures of Abstract thought. We dream, we Imagine, we Fantasize. "What If..." seems to be our Favorite question. Given a Platform where we CAN recreate our Fantasies in a more Tangable form, and Share it with Like Minded people, it was Inevitable that any and All of these groups are now represented.
Good?
Bad?
None of the above?
Both of the above?
Those debates rage on because they are Matters of Opinion, and no concensus is possible. I don't concern myself with them so much anymore. I Live my Second Life as i Choose. If others want to Share, Fine, I'm open, If they wish to Pursue interests of their own, Also fine, i support it (I might even Peek in to see if it's something I might like). The Real world is a Varied Place. Second Life is More so. and I for one Savor Variety.

Have Fun.
Angel