Lessons learned from ActiveWorlds?

It didn't sound pretentious, I still wuv you
Especially after spending some time in BL last night, that pirate game you people made is pretty cool

I've an ActiveWorlds veteran as well - since it first started. I've met a lot of the crew that originally put it together, and the CoF crew at various conferences over the years. They were good folks, but didn't seem to have a long term vision or plan to grow AW; it seemed more like, "We've built this cool thing, its a finished product, use it. Its so far ahead of its time it'll never get outdated!"

I think the "Hanson" reference above is misplaced. That wasn't ActiveWorlds; that was Worlds.net:

http://www.worlds.net/

The did HansonWorld, AerosmithWorld, BowieWorld and BlairWitchWorld (can you tell about what year they did these things? <smirk>.

AW's downfall for me was the lack of community. It was much harder than SL to get to know anyone, or get to know anyone on a regular basis. However, it is fun to see some familiar SL names on the ActiveWorlds citizen list... visit this link:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040615120857/http://arcworld.sprawl-vr.com/awcit.html

Search for "FlipperPA" (248985), "Lordfly" (251815), "CrystalShard" (292473)

Some of the names at the top of the list show a similar influence to Philip: Uncle Enzo, YT... where's Da5id?



Regards,

-Flip

Steller #101569
I wonder if it's our stellie, she was in AW too. There's also a BBC #293699 but it could just be some tv-watching brit hehe

Well... I am an Activeworlds veteran currently doing the 7-day trial thing

Activeworlds Pros

The caching works (SL's cache seems to be a bit of a geriatric goldfish... but, hey, I am moving around a lot).
The graphics work without spending hours fiddling with unfathomable options (I think SL is way too optimistic with its default settings and devoid of any decent explanation of what the various options actually do - if any one thing had put me off SL within the first half hour it would have been the hopeless graphic settings).
The basic building objects allow even novices to quickly produce reasonable builds (what I've seen of SL's building engine is very clever but complex).
The terrain looks far superior to anything I'm seeing in SL.
The trees don't wave around - please make the damn trees stand still!
You can be in first-person without being in mouse-mode (I find it really odd that SL doesn't support this).


Activeworlds Cons (aka SL Pros)

Pretty basic camera - the SL camera is, well... hours of fun
It's impossible with any accuracy to find where the crowds are located - AW can be very self-isolating (conversely, if you want total privacy... it's yours).
The AVs suck (SL's AVs are stunning - light years ahead of AW).
The adult content is totally dominated by the Gorean community (although I think it would help SL to have more specific ratings than 'mature').
There are only very basic physics.
The user base has dwindled to something far too small for its size (AW is several orders of magnitude bigger than SL).
All the really clever stuff in AW is based on their SDK... SL's scripting (while no walk in the park) looks to be a lot more usable.
There are only very basic chat features - SL's combination of Friends and IM works a lot better than AW's Contacts, Whispers, and Telegrams.
No real comparison but the SL Mini-Map is another excellent feature.

Oddly - and given my very few days experience in SL - SL seems to actually have greater potential in the building department but it has failed to realise that potential. AW has really good creations in abundance and SL actually seems rather spartan by comparison. SL can also be damned laggy which probably doesn't encourage elaborate builds. But then SL can also have a lot of what I believe is referred to as 'Bling'. AW would call it a Lag Monster.

However, regardless of the Pros and Cons, and even given my very short time here, SL has a buzz that simply no longer exists in AW.

I did AW for a year. What struck me the most was the rampart air of xenophobia that pervaded practically anywhere you went. People with 'basic' acounts were all but shunned outside of the initial welcome area, and areas that were mature in nature were downright hostile.

From a technological standpoint, AW was well ahead of its time. I liked most of all the NPC bots feature, and the high level of flexibility in them. For some odd reason though, everything had this feeling of...I dunno how to word it....sterility. Lots of land, plenty of NPC's, but few people, and the few one met were generally xenophobic. Was like visitng some virtual post-holocaust ghost town.


- Newfie

The whining and complaining is the surest sign that things are alright (seriously)

People don't complain about what they don't care about.

All these meetings.. the requests for inclusion.. feature requests.

Try going into any of these other games and have a meeting that matters squat to the makers. It may SEEM that the Lindens don't care about what users think.. the fact is they have 1000's of users to think of.

oops sorry

All PC only games look da same to me!

For certain reasons, I prefer complaints over apathy.

Peeps voicing their opinions shows more passion than peeps who just don't care.

I was on ActiveWorlds for a few days on the trial tops. This was after being in SL for awhile, uh prodded by a suggestion from Oz and some others. My curiosity compelled me to try, so I did... and I was very disappointed. I'll point to specifics like the tech not being updated to keep pace with the times, the lonely feeling and lack of community (I'd say this even if I was full robot), and camera zooming limits. (Something I've come to LURVE about SL, camscan!)

Like There.com tho, there's some gold that could be incorporated into the greater fabric of SL and we could all benefit from it. Like bots and other features pointed out here.

I completely agree with you. And I complain and whine because I do care and want SL to become a great thing. So yes, completely agree.

Pale, it's interesting to see the perspective from the fresh perspective of the other side of the fence. And I agree with you on alot of that, documentation for the GUI sucks, Building and scripting can be hard to get from the start.

As for the terrain, I disagree there, once you try out the land editing (not sure you'll get the chance to unless you buy land) it is pretty much on par with AW's in terms of what you can do with it, if not slightly more advanced since it's not as... polygonal. As for how it *looks* you might have to turn up your terrain detail in preferences (which yes need to be better documented), I know when setting the detail to low, the terrain can look pretty bad.

And I forgot about NPCs, I really really want NPCs in SL, and was dissapointed when the projected "we'll have them in 1.6" didn't come true. I understand, but yet at the same time don't understand, LL's hesitance in implementing them. I can think of atleast 3 good ways to have NPCs visibly different from avatars (which can be optionaly turned off too).

Btw my AW name is "Sprawler" Cit#: 331155

So has anybody tried Worlds chat lately? I remember this from a while back. It wasn't like AW but instead had these pods you visit as if on a spaceship. It looks like worlds.com is still in business. Anyone care to offer any opinions on Worlds?

I was only in there to be with my girlfriend at the time, who was some sort of staff member or something (maddie) i never knew all she did there lol...

But I think this was me, I know she renamed one of her accounts so I could use it so I am crossing my fingers I was Coal #121609 ROFL

I sort of liked it the bit I was in there, oh how the times changed, but I spent a few years in VZones so the lovely world of 3d with SL was great to me

This doesn't matter probably, but a building I built in 1996 is still there *sigh* nostalgia...

Hi there,

I was in worlds for a little bit in the year 2002 or so. It was a nice trippy world with pods instead of sims. And I remember that I kinda liked my penguin avatar the first time I logged in. Many friendly people there at the time and interesting customizable avatars. (I got to be this lovely girl with flowers in her hair)

I was ready to subscribe even. Till my enquiry email to them wasnt replied back. I waited a day, 3 days, a week ... nothing even now

So I reckoned if they cant reply to an enquiry email, I couldnt really be confident enough to give them my subcription ...

The issue maybe that any really good terrain is never done by hand. I believe in AW it's done using a grey-scale contour map and a Bot. Both of which have infinitely more patience than a human.

Having said that, I do have the terrain set to its lowest setting because it's a compromise I decided to make in an effort to get a more frisky experience.

i was *very* active in worlds up til about a year ago (and even still have my old fansite hanging around - http://www.takefive.d2g.com/jazzette ) it, like activeworlds, was probably ahead of it's time, trying to accomplish VR over narrowband streaming. worlds was a victim of the bubble, from what i understand their capitalization pretty much went to zero overnight. i don't think a thing has been done to enhance the technology in 5 or 6 years - the worlds client, built for windows95 had some serious issues with more modern versions of bill's OS (mac client? ha!). that said, with enough tinkering of .ini files some pretty amazing things could be done with avatar creation and cross-DNA customization. the same with builds, even though the UI was crude and the only native prim the rectangle! (though you could import low poly renderware models). since there was no currency or economy, everything user created was done strictly for the gee-whiz factor. an outlook which i kinda miss here in the land of land baronry and strip malls, stipends and dwell points. but probably also has contributed to their dwindling userbase. i also miss being able to host my entire build (aka world in worlds parlance) from any old internet aware http server. gee... your own private island. for free. what a concept

oh well, both technology and capitalism march on and i know a lot of worlds expatriates in SL.

-JT

I am also an Activeworlds veteran, having been a cit there for almost 5 years.

What do I miss the most about AW? It would have to be the 'back' button!! How many times have you wanted to pop someplace, check it out, and go back to what you were doing?? The 'back' button made that painless!!!

I also miss the logging feature. I crash often and I hate losing text that scrolled by before I had the chance to check it out.

The world ownership functions appear to be more versatile too. There are levels of 'power' you can give people, from complete Caretaker status to ED (Eminent Domain; you can change other ppls buillds, move, tweak, etc) to simply making some people able to have their chat listed boldly (useful if you are carrying on any sort of moderated event or discussion).

I don't have all the techy knowledge other posters have offered but I am pretty good with the aesthetics. The av's in AW do suck badly compared to SL's!! lol I go back there and see the av I used to think was sooo beautiful and I am horrified! It's easy to become narcissistic in SL!!


Well...there's my 2 or 3 cents Don't spend it all in one place!

Anjaleka

I loved AW back when. I was teaching 3D and selling my students that VRML - remember that? - and AW like structures were really pushing the Internet medium. And now, ten years later, I am discovering SL. Still not my dream, but much more the reality.

Things I loved about AW?

The ability to host your own server (will SL ever do this?)

<soapbox on>
Grid computing is the way to go, IMHO. Make clients mesh to share the load. Reduce lag by having publicly viewable caches. So, person A in country Z rezzes stuff from SL server 1. person B in country Z then gets it locally.

I know, I'm dreaming, aren't I!
<soapbox off>

The bot compatibility (I am an AI person after all - see my other posts...)

In the early days, the FREE bit (something that SL has handled really well this year!)

And, if you ever saw "The 13th Floor" movie - nice idea, some good acting (and bad), major plot flaw that pushed suspension of disbelief - there was (is?) a wonderful 13th floor AW world, which hosted the premier!!! actor AVs driving up in cars and red carpets and everything! It was still there long after the 'official' web site died. You could log in and talk to NPCs to solve a riddle too. At one point there was a prize, but my favourite bit. REALLY favourite bit was that the edge of the world was visible as cars coming round the corner would de-rez as they went through it:

Solid car -> front goes to flickering green lines showing mesh -> disappears

It was awesome! I never did work out how they did it, but it was beautiful. If ever any of you finds who coded that, please PLEASE tell them I will have their baby to find out how they did it.

http://mauz.info/awhistory.html has a history!

http://www.philfilms.utm.edu/1/thirteenth.htm has a discussion of the philosophy behind virtual reality and the thirteenth floor.

the13th is a valid world in AW, but I don't have citizenship and can't be bothered to register; back when I was using it, visitors could go anywhere for a period of time, but now to go anywhere you need to register, and I hate those "If you don't cancel we will start charging" things.

However, if any of you have AW membership, it would be good to see if you considered it as visually appealing now as I did then. A chocolate field mouse to the person who best captures the de-rezzing cars, etc. for the rest of us to enjoy...!

Lesson learned from AW: P2P is a good thing! Hallelujah!

I spent a few years in AW back about 6 yrs ago. I ran my own world on my own server (my speedy Gateway 333 at the time, on dial up mind you).

My world was on when I was on basically, and I could have 14 people I believe on my world at one time. Reminds me more of the Islands in SL.

I remember wandering the worlds like the 13th floor, Atlantis, Gor (many types of Gor worlds) and building in Mytholgy and my own world Meridian. Many people would hang out at Castles, a world a woman built to display and sell her RL Art.

There were a couple malls, but usually empty. People would hang out in welcome areas or go to the sponsored worlds.

You didn't have much choice in clothing, unless the world owner had fashions set up for you. Most people looked like tourists lol.

There were scripted roller coasters, Merry Go Rounds etc. Nothing to compare to SL of course.

SL to me seems like a combination of 2 worlds , Active Worlds and Sims online combined.

After quitting AW I played online games like Redmoon and City of Heroes. I am so glad my daughter introduced me to SL.

Cheers!

(Formally Lorali in Active Worlds)

Meaningfulness is relative. It's QUITE easy to compare AW and SL (and, in fact, ANYTHING). http://tnlc.com/eep/compare/ to see how.