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To Linden Lab; RE: ResMods

Vivianne Draper
Registered User
Join date: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,157
04-05-2006 23:18
From: SuezanneC Baskerville
I have read these forums for years. There hasn't been a time in the past when they weren't filled with bile and vitriol and personal attacks galore, plus an over ample supply of whining, moaning, griping and crying about the deplorable state of the forums.

The folks who can't tell which forum to post in most commonly mistake every or any forum as a place to put an ad, such as, for example, trying to use both general and scripting tips forums to advertise their events in.

Odd how confusion works to serve one's own interests.

If one is genuinely incapable of determining that, say, a question on how to script goes in scripting tips, not in design, then there are folks who will move it to the right place.

The resident moderator program is working fine.


Thanks for singling Perse out there Suzanne and making her appear in the worst possible light. Now how do you explain all the OTHER people complaining about the program?
Phaylen Fairchild
Second Life Artifact
Join date: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 196
04-05-2006 23:41
From: SuezanneC Baskerville
I have read these forums for years. There hasn't been a time in the past when they weren't filled with bile and vitriol and personal attacks galore, plus an over ample supply of whining, moaning, griping and crying about the deplorable state of the forums.

The folks who can't tell which forum to post in most commonly mistake every or any forum as a place to put an ad, such as, for example, trying to use both general and scripting tips forums to advertise their events in.

Odd how confusion works to serve one's own interests.

If one is genuinely incapable of determining that, say, a question on how to script goes in scripting tips, not in design, then there are folks who will move it to the right place.

The resident moderator program is working fine.


Hi Suezanne,

I certainly realize many of the forums are helpful and self explanatory- that wasn't really the point of my initial post. There are 52 different forums here for Second Life... forums within forums included. I particularly found the Special Attractions and Events topics very similar with intention, not to mention in classified, the Shopping and New Products are similar as well... I agree some people make the mistake of advertising their Blog in Land & Economy, or ask for help in The Scripting Library without using any discernment. I think those were the ones that came to mind when I off handedly suggested consolidation of forums. Sometimes things are just not topic specific enough, some threads have dual interests... Unfortunately this staggars the forum users to such a degree that very few threads get exposure.

I'm sure the Devs will do deal with the issue however they see best fit, and in that I support them, regardless.

However, in contrast to a previous poster, I do believe they listen. Often we user have seen results from an issue spotlighted in the forums.

My primary issue was seeing people distraught, specifically teh user here, and the community split. I don't much like divisive implementations, but Smile and Nod is my theory.
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David Valentino
Nicely Wicked
Join date: 1 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,941
04-06-2006 01:12
From: SuezanneC Baskerville
I have read these forums for years. There hasn't been a time in the past when they weren't filled with bile and vitriol and personal attacks galore, plus an over ample supply of whining, moaning, griping and crying about the deplorable state of the forums.

The folks who can't tell which forum to post in most commonly mistake every or any forum as a place to put an ad, such as, for example, trying to use both general and scripting tips forums to advertise their events in.

Odd how confusion works to serve one's own interests.

If one is genuinely incapable of determining that, say, a question on how to script goes in scripting tips, not in design, then there are folks who will move it to the right place.

The resident moderator program is working fine.



So you honestly think the forums are a better place these days??

Even with all the previous SL drama and shouted opinions, the forums, to me at least, were far more entertaining, informational, heartfelt, intriguing and welcoming in their earlier days. What we have now is either tip-toeing or threads moved, closed or castrated.

What is so bad about folks posting what they want, within the ToS? We can read or not read as we choose, and the General Forum should be a catch-all for those topics that concern SL, but are not entirely specific to one technical subject or another.

I regret both the lose of creativity within the forums, and the lose of non-profit creativity within SL itself.
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David Lamoreaux

Owner - Perilous Pleasures and Extreme Erotica Gallery
Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
04-06-2006 03:35
Nice, Suzeanne.. while I disagree with Perse's contest, at least I didn't make an attempt to hide disdain of her intentions..as opposed toy ou attacking her directly while trying to sound like you do nothing wrong.

Face the person you attack, at least on the forums if that is where you attack them. Don't hide behind hypothetical examples that just happen to match what did happen.
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I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

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You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
04-06-2006 04:20
In all my posting on these forums, I have only fallen foul of a moderating decision once, which was when an important issue was bumped off to "fansites" because of an attitude that anything "unofficial" belongs in amongst all the blogs and other assorted "related" sites out there rather than giving maximum exposure because of its importance, relevance and possible impact on the community as a whole. I still disagree with the decision to move it, but I have to abide by their rules so it stays there gathering dust - for now.

If anything, the moderation here is too lax, and repeated trolls cause trouble for many because of their refusal to post things in the correct forum.

It's not rocket science to avoid being 'modded' ... and many of those who are simply do because they don't like being told what to do.

Lewis
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
04-06-2006 05:10
From: SuezanneC Baskerville

Odd how confusion works to serve one's own interests.


good thing we have big brothers at the laboratory to address this
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I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.

http://forums.secondcitizen.com/
Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
04-06-2006 05:11
From: Lewis Nerd
It's not rocket science to avoid being 'modded' ... and many of those who are simply do because they don't like being told what to do.


Lewis, you are being Modded!

STFU!
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I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.

http://forums.secondcitizen.com/
Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
04-06-2006 06:34
From: David Valentino
Even with all the previous SL drama and shouted opinions, the forums, to me at least, were far more entertaining, informational, heartfelt, intriguing and welcoming in their earlier days. What we have now is either tip-toeing or threads moved, closed or castrated.

What is so bad about folks posting what they want, within the ToS? We can read or not read as we choose, and the General Forum should be a catch-all for those topics that concern SL, but are not entirely specific to one technical subject or another.

I regret both the lose of creativity within the forums, and the lose of non-profit creativity within SL itself.


Nicely put! The forum has been cleaned, purged, sterilized and sanitized within an inch of it's life. Yeah some of it needed to be reigned in, but now it's just overkill.

*throws bleach bottle out the window.
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
04-06-2006 14:29
From: Phaylen Fairchild
I particularly found the Special Attractions and Events topics very similar

If by "Events topics" you meant the "Events Discussion" forum, the description of that states:
"Event Discussion
Questions, ideas, and tips for managing and hosting Second Life events. (Please do not use this forum to announce or review specific events.)"

It is quite cleary and explicitly stated that that forum is not for posting ads about events. It is a how to forum for event holders, just as the Design forum is a how to forum for designers.

have to get back to work now.
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne

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http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
Robin, and Ryan

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Phaylen Fairchild
Second Life Artifact
Join date: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 196
04-07-2006 00:03
From: SuezanneC Baskerville
If by "Events topics" you meant the "Events Discussion" forum, the description of that states:
"Event Discussion
Questions, ideas, and tips for managing and hosting Second Life events. (Please do not use this forum to announce or review specific events.)"

It is quite cleary and explicitly stated that that forum is not for posting ads about events. It is a how to forum for event holders, just as the Design forum is a how to forum for designers.

have to get back to work now.


Yes that seems quite clear enough. Again, however, I was merely using that as an example of how forums could be merged and still be equally useful... instead of splitting them apart. Not really worthy of running with as it will drive us totally off topic.
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Phaylen Fairchild
Second Life Artifact
Join date: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 196
04-07-2006 00:06
From: Dyne Talamasca
I've always thought the SL forums were more or less a cesspool, and have been long overdue for a good metaphorical thwacking. I was surprised something like the resmod program wasn't instituted earlier, especially given how many people here blatantly ignore the fact that this forum is supposed to be PG. Forums being modded by a small selection of member volunteers is hardly a new idea.

I don't come here for the drama, and I certainly don't come here to watch those of you who like to engage in in a rousing game of who can be the biggest jerk, or who can come off as the most cynical about LL and SL. I come here in spite of those things, because there is interesting discussion here. It's just buried beneath a few dozen threads worth of posturing, flaming, and complaining.

I think that a largish portion (but not all) of the negative feedback to the program has been indicative of little besides the fact that some posters resent the idea that they are losing their ability to post anything they bloody well please and are being held to standards (which shouldn't have come as a big surprise given how poorly the forums have done regulating themselves).

I certainly don't think the program is perfect, though.

There have been far too many threads moved, for example. I lay the blame for that as much on the structure of the forums as anything ... I've always felt that there are simply too many forums and subforums here, most of which people rarely read or post to, and the purpose of which is not always clear. Something like half of the forums here could probably stand to be merged with another forum or back into their parents.

People post to communicate, and a post's "proper location" is no more and no less than the location where it can best facilitate that goal. The organization of the forums must support that goal; if it fails to do so (as we've seen with people posting in general because that's what people actually read) then it is the organization that is in error and needs to be rethought ... not the poster. (This, of course, does not address people who deliberately place things in the wrong location ... nothing will remove the need to move those posts.)

I also disagree with some of the constraints on speaking here, such as the name-naming, which has a chilling effect on valid criticism, and thus prevents people from making informed choices ... unless they want to play "decode the *wink-wink* secret hints". (Mind you, given my opinion of the tone here, I'm obviously not in support of allowing people to just slag on each other at will.)


Thank you Dyne for a very eloquent and thoughtful take offering differing perspective. I listened to the Town Hall tonight where Philip offered a similar, albeit generalized impression of the SL forums and how unnecessarily negative they can be.

I find that incredibly sad. As someone who has managed several very high profile gaming site with extremely large communities, I've never actually heard a Dev conceed to the fact that the atmosphere is surprisingly hostile.

I think that he spotlighted this, for even a moment, is a testament that they are aware of the forum issues and atmosphere presented here.
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