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Overactive Security Scripts

Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
05-05-2006 15:36
No, a ten second warning was RECOMMENDED not required.
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
05-05-2006 15:55
From: someone
Originally posted by Lee Linden:



We know there's a bit of a gap between the current built-in security tools, and people's desires to be alone on their property. While we allow residents to supplement their land security tools with scripts, it's important not to violate other people's rights in the process.

An acceptable security script should remove an offender from the land, nothing more. Ideally, this should involve two calls: llUnSit and llEjectFromLand. More details on these functions here:

http://secondlife.com/badgeo/wakka.php?wakka=llUnSit
http://secondlife.com/badgeo/wakka....llEjectFromLand

These two calls will eject someone driving a vehicle with no chance for them to recover it, so it's important to provide both a warning and a reasonable delay for someone "just passing through", especially if they're not a repeat offender.

llPushObject should not be used in a security script; it's totally unnecessary. llTeleportAgentHome is also a bit unfair to people attempting to fly to another location, and should also not be used. Both these functions have the potential to disconnect someone from Second Life, which is considered a disruptive action.

In my opinion, the ideal security script would have the following features:

1) Scan in intervals greater than 1.0 second to reduce server load.
2) Maintain a list of recently ejected residents, as well as a "blacklist" of names forbidden by the owner.
3) After a new avatar (not recently ejected or blacklisted) enters, wait a few seconds, then warn the user via IM (one time only) that they're on private land and should leave.
4) Give the avatar at least 10 seconds to leave for this first occasion.
5) If the avatar doesn't leave, IM them again, then llUnSit and llEjectFromLand.
6) Add the avatar to the "recently ejected" list. If they return, they receive a shorter delay before being removed.
7) Blacklisted avatars receive a short delay and IM warning before being ejected and added to the "recently ejected" list. Blacklisted avatars on the "recently ejected" list can be immediately removed.

That's a wish list, not a list of requirements. If someone makes that security script, I'll be sure to recommend it!

As always, circumventing the security tools (ours or yours) to harrass someone isn't okay, and such bad behavior should be reported via the Abuse Reporter.



/invalid_link.html

Showing the Linden's opinion. Yes, TP home -can- be bad, but isn't nec. a violation. Push is bad, and eject IS PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE. Bold added is my own. Note how its not REQUIRED there be a warning.
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You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Joannah Cramer
Registered User
Join date: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,539
05-05-2006 16:02
From: Jonas Pierterson
Showing the Linden's opinion. Yes, TP home -can- be bad, but isn't nec. a violation.

According to what's quoted above, it can cause someone else's disconnection which is considered "disruptive action"... and there's no way to determine in advance if it affects someone in this way, so using it is basically taking unnecessary risk of getting banned for what the security script is doing..?
Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
05-05-2006 16:05
In my opinion, the only reason to use a security script is if you have a griefer problem, and you can put those people on a ban list. You can have that ban list on 24/7, let the rest of us fly around without being pushed, tp'd or whatever. If you're not at home, you don't need a securtity script on, besides the ban list. But then that's my opinion.



I absolutely hate being teleported home by so-called security scripts!
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
05-05-2006 16:08
If I didn't have my shop, I'd have a security script set up to eject with 5 second warning. At all times. I 'own' the land and my rights and desires trump any wish of yours to fly through what I pay land fees for.
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Good freebies here and here

I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Cindy Claveau
Gignowanasanafonicon
Join date: 16 May 2005
Posts: 2,008
05-05-2006 16:43
From: Sally Rosebud
In my opinion, the only reason to use a security script is if you have a griefer problem, and you can put those people on a ban list. You can have that ban list on 24/7, let the rest of us fly around without being pushed, tp'd or whatever. If you're not at home, you don't need a securtity script on, besides the ban list. But then that's my opinion.

I absolutely hate being teleported home by so-called security scripts!

In my opinion, the only reason to be flying around at 500m is to snoop in skyboxes where you don't belong. And actually, with a 10 to 15 second warning time on my security, your vehicle will be well past my boundaries before you're ejected from my land. The only reason you need worry about it is if you want to stop and rez trash prims on my land or change some of the poses (like the photo studio I have which cycles through 140 poses and backgrounds without checking on perms). If that's the case, eject is a suitable response.

I hate having strange visitors trying to drop in on my house without asking permission or announcing themselves first. It's called "rude".
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
05-05-2006 16:49
Well, J, we already know what you are...
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Roxie Marten
Crumedgeon
Join date: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 291
05-05-2006 16:50
From: Jonas Pierterson
If I didn't have my shop, I'd have a security script set up to eject with 5 second warning. At all times. I 'own' the land and my rights and desires trump any wish of yours to fly through what I pay land fees for.



Then you should be paying by the cubic meter to include the public air space above it.
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
05-05-2006 16:51
From: Cindy Claveau
In my opinion, the only reason to be flying around at 500m is to snoop in skyboxes where you don't belong. And actually, with a 10 to 15 second warning time on my security, your vehicle will be well past my boundaries before you're ejected from my land. The only reason you need worry about it is if you want to stop and rez trash prims on my land or change some of the poses (like the photo studio I have which cycles through 140 poses and backgrounds without checking on perms). If that's the case, eject is a suitable response.

I hate having strange visitors trying to drop in on my house without asking permission or announcing themselves first. It's called "rude".


Oh, people usually aren't up that high unless it's to avoid all those damn security scripts. But how hard is it to use the return button? I don't have any security at my house and have never had a problem with all that you are talking about. With the photo studio, would you be able to have it set that only group, or certain people could use it?
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Tiger Zobel
hoarder
Join date: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 391
05-05-2006 17:06
From: Sally Rosebud
Oh, people usually aren't up that high unless it's to avoid all those damn security scripts. But how hard is it to use the return button? I don't have any security at my house and have never had a problem with all that you are talking about. With the photo studio, would you be able to have it set that only group, or certain people could use it?

I live 300M up, in my home, on land that my wife owns... I cannot use the return button, so tell me how I get rid of trash prims?

Next, when we lived at ground level... we used the Ban list... but all they did then was stand just outside our land and rez prims into our house... After they shot the living crap out of us for daring to ban them in the first place. (anyone who IM's someone to bitch about being ejected from private land earns an instant ban)

Of course, since the ban list only holds 50 names, it gets filled quickly... then what?


So, now we just have security on eject, only within our boundries, after a 6 second warning, and only high in the sky...

And you know what? We still get the occasional junk-primmer showing up...
Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,415
05-05-2006 17:09
From: Sally Rosebud
In my opinion, the only reason to use a security script is if you have a griefer problem, and you can put those people on a ban list. You can have that ban list on 24/7, let the rest of us fly around without being pushed, tp'd or whatever. If you're not at home, you don't need a securtity script on, besides the ban list. But then that's my opinion.



I absolutely hate being teleported home by so-called security scripts!


I agree with you and so far only ban known griefers or people that I do not like. It is not a very large listing :) Might have to make things tighter if the green dot on the map disappears but we shaw see.
Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
05-05-2006 17:18
From: someone
Then you should be paying by the cubic meter to include the public air space above it.


I'm already paying for the landspace and airspace wherein any prims count against my total. This includes up to 768 m. You want clear air airspace above so many meters? Make sure those prims don't count on my property.
_____________________
Good freebies here and here

I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Tiger Zobel
hoarder
Join date: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 391
05-05-2006 17:27
Come to think of it, maybe my wife should set the allow list instead... but why should we stop anyone from travelling through our land on the ground just so we can have privacy in the sky?


The other thing to remember is, almost all land in SL is private land... no-one has the right to travel through it. (well, except the Lindens, but that's a special case...)
Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
05-05-2006 17:31
From: Tiger Zobel
I live 300M up, in my home, on land that my wife owns... I cannot use the return button, so tell me how I get rid of trash prims?

Next, when we lived at ground level... we used the Ban list... but all they did then was stand just outside our land and rez prims into our house... After they shot the living crap out of us for daring to ban them in the first place. (anyone who IM's someone to bitch about being ejected from private land earns an instant ban)

Of course, since the ban list only holds 50 names, it gets filled quickly... then what?


So, now we just have security on eject, only within our boundries, after a 6 second warning, and only high in the sky...

And you know what? We still get the occasional junk-primmer showing up...


Form a group with that land, you'll be able to get rid of those prims. I'm not saying don't use security scripts at all, just use them responsibly, please. If you're not home, do you really need the script on? Most SLers are not griefers, and have a respect for other peoples property. I guess I've just been lucky in my year here, not to have had many problems with other people. *shrugs*
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
05-05-2006 17:33
From: Jonas Pierterson
I'm already paying for the landspace and airspace wherein any prims count against my total. This includes up to 768 m. You want clear air airspace above so many meters? Make sure those prims don't count on my property.


Well even if you are paying, LL can cancel your acct for any reason... Jeez, how hard is it to use the return option in your land tools?
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Jessica Elytis
Goddess
Join date: 7 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,783
05-05-2006 17:58
Okay, I know what LL's represenative said (about using Eject and TP home only, not Push), but in home security, wouldn't Push be prefered? Not a slam six sims over type of push, jsut one to "bump" an avie or vehicle back. That way they can stop, get thier berrings, continue on in a circumnavigated path.

I mean, I CAN set my security to Eject (which is jsut basically a HUGE push that rips you out of your vehicle), but I felt I was being nice to have it set on a low powered push.

To me, Ejection is rude and unnessicary. Light pushes can deter most "innocent" tresspasses. Intended or unintended. Eject and TP Home Should be used only by the Land Options by the owner to remove true griefers (or to get the point across to the extremely dense).

The push lets the person stay in thiere vehicle (if they're using one) and not have to chase down where it went, or wait for me to return it.

To the rest; Aye: Better security by LL would be preferable to Security Systems. But until I get sound-proof walls that an avie can't "edit slide" through, or sit on objects in my house to bypass locked doors, I'll have my PDS Orb.

The Red Ban Lines are even worse btw. They do not show over a simline, and if you cross into them BAM! you're getting tossed half a sim away. Lame.

~Jessy
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Tiger Zobel
hoarder
Join date: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 391
05-05-2006 18:00
From: Sally Rosebud
Form a group with that land, you'll be able to get rid of those prims. I'm not saying don't use security scripts at all, just use them responsibly, please. If you're not home, do you really need the script on? Most SLers are not griefers, and have a respect for other peoples property. I guess I've just been lucky in my year here, not to have had many problems with other people. *shrugs*

Why? So that I can have the privacy on PRIVATE land? Why should we have to pay to form a group of only 2 people, which would be deleted after 3 days anyway, just so we can have privacy? (the group idea does not work in this case! We'd have to form a new group over and over again... thanks, but no thanks...) And how is having security scripts set only for a 30M radius at 300M high, set only to eject after a global warning not responsible?

Of course, when we have the thing turned off, we still get griefed... Why, maybe because we own prime seafront land on a lag free sim...

But, if we're not home, then let's have no security... I know that no-one does that IRL... (even if they're not going to take anything, it's out HOME. I do not want any old Tom, Dick or Harry wandering through... would you?)

And, of course, since the land itself is property, can I assume that most people don't wander through that either? No, they don't.


We will continue to use security scripts like we do now... if you don't like being ejected from what is very obviously a private home on private land, then don't try to enter it... (and it's set in such a way you won't get ejected unless you try to enter the house... that responsible enough, or should we just let them in anyway?)



Yes, I'm upset that we're faced with people demanding we remove the last security and privacy we have... and why shouldn't I be?

PRIVATE LAND! PRIVACY! It is our right...
Cutter Rubio
Hopeless Romantic
Join date: 7 Feb 2004
Posts: 264
05-05-2006 18:02
From: Jonas Pierterson
If I didn't have my shop, I'd have a security script set up to eject with 5 second warning. At all times. I 'own' the land and my rights and desires trump any wish of yours to fly through what I pay land fees for.


Well, they might trump now but hopefully that will change. Airspace in SL, as in RL, should be utterly public and free to traverse. If you have a sky home, fine, put security in it that encompasses it. I hope the Lindens will eventually provide that functionality within built-up spaces. Airspace, on the other hand, should be open or at the very least, there should be a free-travel altitude range so ballonists and aircraft pilots can fly unmolested.
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Tiger Zobel
hoarder
Join date: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 391
05-05-2006 18:05
From: Cutter Rubio
Well, they might trump now but hopefully that will change. Airspace in SL, as in RL, should be utterly public and free to traverse. If you have a sky home, fine, put security in it that encompasses it. I hope the Lindens will eventually provide that functionality within built-up spaces. Airspace, on the other hand, should be open or at the very least, there should be a free-travel altitude range so ballonists and aircraft pilots can fly unmolested.

Then airspace in SL shouldn't count against the prim count for the land below... Then, and only then, should the airspace be public.

Until that point, it's private.
Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
05-05-2006 18:06
From: Cindy Claveau
Until then, I have a right to protect my own privacy.

Is there even such a thing in SL? I didn't realize people were so concerned about the privacy of bits. Personally, I hate those systems... but, I've never had a stalker that I didn't like. ;)
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
05-05-2006 18:07
From: someone
Well even if you are paying, LL can cancel your acct for any reason... Jeez, how hard is it to use the return option in your land tools?


How hard is it to stay above 800 meters?

The same logic applies to you. Maybe consider that there is the desire to keep PEOPLE off the skyhouse. I can return you to your inventory?
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Good freebies here and here

I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Hugsy Penguin
Sky Junkie
Join date: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 851
05-05-2006 18:22
From: Jonas Pierterson


/invalid_link.html

Showing the Linden's opinion. Yes, TP home -can- be bad, but isn't nec. a violation. Push is bad, and eject IS PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE. Bold added is my own. Note how its not REQUIRED there be a warning.
[/color]

So LL wishes people, but not requires people, to put a delay on their security scripts. That's an odd way to put it but clearly they would like delays on security scripts. That's all I'm talking about. Give someone a chance to zip through. It's not hurting anybody.

Also note:

From: someone
...it's important to provide both a warning and a reasonable delay for someone "just passing through", especially if they're not a repeat offender.


Why would he say this? It's because ejecting someone who's "just passing through" with no warning is griefing.

HP
Hugsy Penguin
Sky Junkie
Join date: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 851
05-05-2006 18:33
From: Cindy Claveau
In my opinion, the only reason to be flying around at 500m is to snoop in skyboxes where you don't belong. And actually, with a 10 to 15 second warning time on my security, your vehicle will be well past my boundaries before you're ejected from my land. The only reason you need worry about it is if you want to stop and rez trash prims on my land or change some of the poses (like the photo studio I have which cycles through 140 poses and backgrounds without checking on perms). If that's the case, eject is a suitable response.

I hate having strange visitors trying to drop in on my house without asking permission or announcing themselves first. It's called "rude".


If someone is hanging around at 500m, then, sure, maybe they're just nosey or trying to grief. Warning and then ejecting if they don't leave is what to do.

However, someone may be just trying to fly through the area and happen to be at 500m at this point. Ejecting the moment they enter the area without warning is griefing.

HP
Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
05-05-2006 18:33
No, not greifing, just restricting access to land they pay for monthly. Congratulations on making it on my list of people to ban completely Hugsy. Don't bother complaining about greifing if I restrict access, because you've been warned here. You'll get no warning time.

edit: ejecting the moment they enter is restricting access to land you pay for monthly. Not greifing.
_____________________
Good freebies here and here

I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Hugsy Penguin
Sky Junkie
Join date: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 851
05-05-2006 18:45
From: Jonas Pierterson
I'm already paying for the landspace and airspace wherein any prims count against my total. This includes up to 768 m. You want clear air airspace above so many meters? Make sure those prims don't count on my property.


Spending two seconds to fly over your land doesn't use up any of your prims. Instantly ejecting someone thereby leaving behind their vehicle does use up some of your prims until you delete or return it.

HP
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