Put Linden-only content in InfoNets at InfoHubs
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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12-13-2005 21:15
From: Anshe Chung I don't mean just ads, but channels. I would imagine resident publications like M2 bid for channels, place content and sell ads to users. The classified system is bad enough with its new pricing. This is not an issue of "the one with the most money gets the freest speech", so I would not advise mixing the message by proposing some kind of auctioning off of the public airwaves to the highest bidder, which by and large, is always you anyway. This is about Lindens taking responsiblity for the information being put out under their name. Even with a CYA disclaimer, there is no reason why Linden publications, which are representative of their company, need to be interspersed with the rest. InfoNet at its core is a glorified distributed vending machine - there are many, many ways the Lindens could do the same thing, through the UI to ensure total coverage, and avoid all of the pitfalls they have stepped right into with eyes wide open.
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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12-13-2005 21:15
Do you think anyone at LL is capable of making a distributer for LL and SL news? I'm guessing there's probably at least a couple employees who are good at this SL building/coding thing. They should make their own. I don't know why that point keeps getting ignored. From: Chip Midnight I would agree with you if that were the case, but it's not. Robin already said the information would be made available for any resident publication that wanted to publish it. But, that brings up another issue. I assume that they chose infonet because they can release the information and have it out and available for people with a fast turnaround time where other publications go out at much slower intervals. So should they hold back information until everyone who wants to print it can do it at the same time or should they go with what best suits thier needs and gets the information available to residents the fastest? Are there other competing systems out there that can do the same thing?
If Squagmire can't publish anything else on those terminals but LL information then wouldn't that mean they'd just appropriated her product so she can no longer profit from it, and it would be done by public demand? Isn't that what so many people accused them of doing when they opened the LindeX (only this time it actually would be a direct lifting of someone else's code?). Seems to me then infonet would be being punished because other resident publications available at the hubs would be able to print whatever they please.
If we're going to take one monkey out of the barrel we have to deal with all of them. This all just strikes me as a big "be careful what you wish for" kind of deal.
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Jeffrey Gomez
Cubed™
Join date: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,522
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12-13-2005 21:17
Eh. A free press needs to be a free press.
Not a "kinda-but-not-really free" press.
Not a "we simultaneously support and in no way endorse this message" press.
And not one where writers can't be held accountable for their work.
So pry the lid off, drop the facade of "Linden approved!" - and attach a name.
I'll remind myself to poke Squag on this subject. Not sure if Linden intervention is that explicit.
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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12-13-2005 21:19
From: Cocoanut Koala I would think, Chip, that they could make their own product for "Linden Information" on their own land.
They would not be appropriating someone else's business, as this would only be on their land, and not everywhere, I think. Personally I think it should be built into the UI, but that's not a feature we're likely to see anytime soon, and whenever we get html on a prim the whole issue is moot anyway. If this kind of uproar happens every time LL makes use of a resident product or service then I bet we'll see a day not far off when they decide they can't do it at all anymore, and I think that would be a shame.
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Katt Kongo
M2 Publisher
Join date: 9 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,020
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12-13-2005 21:55
Well, I'm going to buy a channel from infoNet, write about ALL of the people I have EVER had disagreements with in SL, including real world info when I know it, break a few TOS rules here and there, and then everyone can go to the infohubs to read it.
I appreciate LL. I like what they do. But in the case... Hi, Linden Lab. Meet hypocrisy.
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Katt Kongo
M2 Publisher
Join date: 9 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,020
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12-13-2005 22:08
And... Re: free press.
Free press has to be ethical. When it isn't, there are consequences. While the US has the right to free speech, saying or writing something untrue or impossible to prove as true can and often does have repercussions.
SL does as well. They have put in place TOS, banning, suspensions, etc. What's the point if they don't abide by their own rules?
I would be the last one to say not to allow infoNet at the infohubs, bc I want info about M2 to be there as well. But I have never heard anyone say that the M2 is unethical. I work really hard to make the M2 a fair and honest publication. I think whatever is in infoNet should follow the same criteria.
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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12-13-2005 22:39
From: Katt Kongo Well, I'm going to buy a channel from infoNet, write about ALL of the people I have EVER had disagreements with in SL Not a bad idea! I do believe I have a script somewhere that can bring down the grid... *rummages* I will be taking out an ad in Infonet and making it available to all! (Right after I pry my tongue from my cheek)  |
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Siggy Romulus
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Join date: 22 Sep 2003
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12-13-2005 22:40
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katykiwi Moonflower
Esquirette
Join date: 5 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,489
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12-14-2005 03:15
From: Jonquille Noir They did at least add 2 disclaimers saying they weren't responsible for resident content, and don't neccessarily agree with it. trouble is this position is inconsitent and the way you find out that LL is taking interest is when you are slapped with a sanction for TOS/CS violation! I agree with Cris, Linden content only. |
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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12-14-2005 03:54
Here's a serious question that I'd like those in the "LL content only" camp to answer for me. Is it safe to assume that you're against any resident publication being distributed at the hubs or WA? If not, why not?
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Venya Salome
infoNet News Manager
Join date: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 30
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Re:
12-14-2005 06:17
From: Ghoti Nyak So... anyone can write articles for InfoNet? Possibly... yes. Anyone can have their business/organization listed in our Directory listings. Contact our Directory Manager, Morgana Aubret, for details. As the Manager for the FreePress section, I will also accept press releases from ANY business/organization who would like to get their information out. I also accept freelance articles. IM me, drop a notecard on me, or find me in world and I will be happy to discuss this matter. In addition... regarding the Second Hell Tourbus section. The publisher of this section is no longer a resident of Second Life. As such, the channel is being removed from our network. If anyone has any questions/comments/etc feel free to contact me in world. Venya Salome Manager infoNet FreePress |
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Ghoti Nyak
καλλιστι
Join date: 7 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,078
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12-14-2005 06:21
From: someone Is it safe to assume that you're against any resident publication being distributed at the hubs or WA? If not, why not? I am for ALL resident publications being made available at the infohubs. All who wish to participate should be granted that forum. Either that, or only content that LL approves of should be there. The information is being distributed at an official location. If it is only from one source, it aught to be official news. LL should not be washing their hands of what is published there if the only information service available there is hand-picked and exclusive. -Ghoti
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Ghoti Nyak
καλλιστι
Join date: 7 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,078
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12-14-2005 06:26
From: Venya Salome As the Manager for the FreePress section, I will also accept press releases from ANY business/organization who would like to get their information out. I also accept freelance articles. IM me, drop a notecard on me, or find me in world and I will be happy to discuss this matter. Kewl. Good to know!!  -Ghoti
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Smileyrepublic Sachertorte
Registered User
Join date: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 6
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12-14-2005 08:09
You never see unattributed articles in the real-world press, other than leaders.
It should be the same in InfoNet - if someone wants their article published, fair enough. But they should believe in it enough to put their name to it.
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Martin Magpie
Catherine Cotton
Join date: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,826
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12-14-2005 08:11
From: Cristiano Midnight Behind the angry hyperbole of Anshe's "Governor Linden is slandering me" is a completely valid point that affects all of us, not just Anshe and how you may feel about her business. No paying customer of Linden Lab should have to tolerate disparaigning content about them in a publicly available, Linden-sponsored and condoned system, hosted on Linden Land. This situation gives tacit approval to the content within. Regardless of any disclaimers (which are an attempt to shirk responsibility), Linden Lab is very much responsible for the information being put forth in their name.
No resident of SL should have to be subjected to having their person or business treated like this in a system designed to provide the public with information about SL. It is a slap in the face to Linden Lab's customers, and anyone it happens to should certainly consider seriously whether to continue to pay for the privilege of being slurred.
If they insist on continuing to use this system (in the face of incredibly negative response to doing so), then the InfoNet terminals at these hubs should only contain the Linden channels and nothing else. I don't blame Anshe for being pissed off about this, I would be too and would not tolerate it. I hope that Linden Lab takes this issue seriously, and that Anshe is successful in her efforts to get this information removed. It is not about the validity of the information, it is subjective. It is about the principle behind it, and Linden Lab is not showing any good faith toward their customers by allowing this to continue. Again I agree and completely support this post. Mar |
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Martin Magpie
Catherine Cotton
Join date: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,826
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12-14-2005 08:12
From: Chip Midnight Here's a serious question that I'd like those in the "LL content only" camp to answer for me. Is it safe to assume that you're against any resident publication being distributed at the hubs or WA? If not, why not? its a fine line between information and spam. |
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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12-14-2005 08:31
About the disclaimer.. one little thing that does bother me is that - based on my experiments with the InfoNet Terminals - the disclaimer is only displayed at the point when the terminal first logs in. In other words, if one person is using it, then walks away without using the InfoNet close button, and then another person comes up, that second user won't see the disclaimer because the terminal hasn't been back to the login screen. This might seem a bit picky but certainly for the terminal in the WA, there's a sign posted above it saying "LINDEN INFORMATION AND ANNOUNCEMENTS" or something similar which everyone can always see. It could be that this isn't quite the case, but it'd be nice if Squag modified it to show the disclaimer whenever the llDetectedKey() that just touched the terminal is one that didn't touch it in the last 5 minutes or whatever. From: Chip Midnight 3. My personal recommendation... the availability of resident publications in a convenient newstand along with the importance of allowing a free press within SL outweigh the unpleasantness of the admittedly mean spirited worst of list. This is where I start to disagree. The WA has always been "censored" against people selling stuff there. The idea of InfoHubs is - I thought - to help out new players. Will we argue so heavily against censorship when W-HAT demand to post an "SL SUCKS THERE IS NOTHING TO DO AND ITS JUST TO MAKE YOU PAY REAL MONEY FOR IMAGINARY STUFF SO YOU OUGHT TO LEAVE" announcement in every InfoHub, including the WA? Why did Squagmire get chosen to provide the existing service in InfoHubs anyway? Was it because of the other content on InfoNet, or was it because he designed a good scripted system with an attractive interface? If the latter were the case (and I'm not saying that it is) then since scripting and UI design - although valuable skills - are not related to journalism, isn't it already censorship that Linden would have excluded anyone writing other good newsletters because they weren't scripters? (M2 anyone?) Would you argue against censorship if a user wanted to post their new updated newsletter which sits in a plywood cube and displays one line at a time in the float text updated on click - but that text did, however, include excellent journalism? There is always going to be censorship on this type of thing. The best we can hope for is that it'll be done by LL rather than by other residents who happened to break the tape on distributed communication systems. |
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
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12-14-2005 08:44
From: Chip Midnight ALL of the SL grid is Linden property if you want to get technical. Yup  The whole darn grid is LL sponsored. My stance remains that at the WA this should be curtailed. All other hubs should have InfoNet as is. The disclaimer is ON the portion of the InfoNet above the screen. Obviously it should be more visible.
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
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12-14-2005 08:46
From: Yumi Murakami Why did Squagmire get chosen to provide the existing service in InfoHubs anyway? Because it already existed. And there was a call for all news sources to provide their newspapers for a news rack in the same area.
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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12-14-2005 08:51
From: Gabe Lippmann Because it already existed. And there was a call for all news sources to provide their newspapers for a news rack in the same area. That wasn't the point, however. The question is: was it chosen, from among those that did already exist, because it was good journalism or because it had a good scripted interface? |
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Luciftias Neurocam
Ecosystem Design
Join date: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 742
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12-14-2005 09:01
From: Yumi Murakami That wasn't the point, however. The question is: was it chosen, from among those that did already exist, because it was good journalism or because it had a good scripted interface? It's not journalism at all. It's a fledgling internal internet. Or it's trying to be one. Since we're arguing about (virtual) public space, let me ask you, quite humbly, what should (real world) public libraries with internet access be allowed to display on their terminals? If there is a web page that attacks a public figure, should public libraries be permitted to display said web page? If not, why? Ah well, no one's mind will change here anyway. But at least it's more red meat. |
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Jake Reitveld
Emperor of Second Life
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,690
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12-14-2005 09:05
My biggest fear that infohubs will be the excuse that LL can use to put off improving the classifieds system and the Search functionality of the find window. The Infohubs are at best redundant, and at worst, will delay implementation of critical fucntionality in the UI. I see these infohubs as turning proposed search reform inot the same kind of vapor ware that havok 3 has become.
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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12-14-2005 09:06
From: Luciftias Neurocam It's not journalism at all. It's a fledgling internal internet. Or it's trying to be one. Since we're arguing about (virtual) public space, let me ask you, quite humbly, what should (real world) public libraries with internet access be allowed to display on their terminals? If there is a web page that attacks a public figure, should public libraries be permitted to display said web page? No, a better question would be: just because (let's say) Dell supplied the computer to your local public library, should Dell get to decide what news they can display? |
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
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12-14-2005 09:07
From: Yumi Murakami That wasn't the point, however. The question is: was it chosen, from among those that did already exist, because it was good journalism or because it had a good scripted interface? It has nothing to do with journalism. Do you have a macro to insert "That wasn't the point"?
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
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12-14-2005 09:09
From: Yumi Murakami No, a better question would be: just because (let's say) Dell supplied the computer to your local public library, should Dell get to decide what news they can display? No but they would get to put their own stuff in it. I haven't heard people complaining that InfoNet has rejected their submissions. Is this the case? I just hear that people don't like what IS included.
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