How could they oust Hank from his land?

I want to understand Hank Ramos and his grief. But his remark was fragmentary and incoherent.

He said that his land was taken up by Linden. If they did so without any proper reason, it must be a big threat for us. But is this true?

Eh.

Just fair warning, you're opening up a big can of worms...

both sides in the conflict went "OMGWTFBBQ" and the lindens sided with the majority of the group (half a dozen), as opposed to the minority opinion (one person). That's what I saw in the Efnet #secondlife channel, anyway.

But don't listen to me, I'm just one of those Feted IRC bots.

Or something.

LF

While you watch those worms crawling from the can you may also want to read the TOS. Could happen to any of us. Probably will happen to me.

Aww... thank you, LF.

You mean that curiosity killed the cat? I'm sure I'm ignorant of sects...
But Hank is one of my respectable scripters. Just wanted to understand what he said.

This will not end well.

No but if beta is any indication, that will

Thanks Lecktor, hmm you mean they executed it according as TOS? I wonder if he was against TOS...

<3

Seagel, if you want to know the history of that particular episode you might do best to try to contact the people involved in private.

In the forums you will likely get responses from people who don't know the facts and who don't understand the TOS, CS, and the rules of group land and money.

Thank you Sues,

It was my first interest of this issue that I met Hank at the welcome area. He was chunterd and I couldn't understand him at all. So I drop in at this forum and found his messages. But it was the exact same. He just said what happend but didn't suggest why that happend. Of course I asked him but his answer was, "Because they wanted to do."

I suspectd that Linden would answer such a thing because that was not my business.
So I asked it here but I seemed to get worms. I will forget this and go fishing with them

Yay, is this a good end?

The people involved do not wish to comment on hanks actions. But if you want hanks side of the story then just ask him. I for one cannot be arsed with him because of what he did to us.

The way group land works is that any officer can take the group land at anytime, for whatever reason. All officers of a group are considered equal in the eyes of the rules of SL with regards to group assets. You can't have group officers removed without a recall vote (that rule has changed since then, you can't remove group officers now except by LL decree) of all group officers and members by a vote.

I had donated to the Gigas group (secondserver.net), and co-founded the group with the current members, a huge (half sim or more, don't remember now the exact size) telehub plot in the Garrison sim. The plot was agreed to belong to me in spirit, but could be used by the group to build a mall. I was to receive payment from the profits in the early stages to cover my land tier payment to Linden Labs and to receive an un-agreed-to amount of the group profits from the venture in the future.

After a few months, I grew tired of having to always beg for the L$ to cover my land tier costs, and never received any profits from the group whatsoever. I was silently being shut out of various ventures in the Gigas group, because I didn't agree with some of their plans and because I didn't agree with a particular banking project idea they had going, so I decided to leave the group and take my large parcel of telehub land with me. Happens all the time in SL. I requested to LL that the founder name of the Gigas group be changed from my name, to avoid having to answer questions about a group I no longer belonged to or was involved to, to the currently listed founder. After that name change, they made their move with LL to have me erased.

The group decided that they didn't care if I left, but didn't want me taking my land with me. I had spoken with a major land baron to quickly dump my huge telehub/mature plot at a loss, but during the price negotiation one of the group members sliced out a large chunk of the land for themselves and put it under ownership of a new group that didn't include me. I protested to inworld Lindens, who didn't really want to speak to me about it. No doubt, working in conjunction with them.

So then they conspired with Linden Labs (the gods of this world, the only people with god powers) to take have the rest of the land siezed by a Linden employee and eventually taken away from me permanently. I retaliated by taking other group land plots to somewhat compensate for the USD$ money I had lost. I was ridiculed and chastised for doing that by members of the group. Then to add insult to injury, they had LL use their god powers to kick me as an officer from the Gigas group (which isn't possible by the rules of the game without a recall vote) making sure that I wouldn't take other land from the group as compensation for my original stolen land.

Many protests and requests (and angry rants) to LL for help were left with silence, lies, or false hopes that it would be looked into. So I'm out hundreds of USD$ to this day, lost a bunch of friends, and am ridiculed to this day. Nothing from LL, bitter feelings from me, and a smug air of righteousness from that crowd of people I used to call friends.

--End of Story(hopefully all details are 100% correct, or as correct as I can get at this time of the morning, lol). Flame away!

Add: this happened a few months back, not recently. Though, some members reopened the wound recently.

Edit: to remove specific avatar's names so as not to violate TOS, though why giving just facts is a violation is beyond me.

Yes, LL did side with the group. Is that a good sign with LL will just allow a group of thugs to do this to another resident by popular "vote"? Is it good that LL will turn a blind eye to the actions of a group of residents, and more than that, participate in the abuse? Wow! Sounds like a nasty dictatorship to me, not the benevolent dictatorship we always said the Lindens were.

Yeah, I think decisions like this should be more transparent.

It's one of the reasons court cases are open to the public.

...and here comes the early bird!




I'm kidding blaze!

(slurp)

/me trying to figure out just exactly what transpired.

anyone from the larger faction want to dispute anything presented or give their POV to more fully explain the situation?

NOTE: lets *try* to keep this constructive and humble (and whistle while we work?.. anyway.. try.) .. hopefully, we can all try to understand the situation better and maybe all learn something without it falling down the slippery slope to flamesville.

I know nothing of the incident in question, but I've never known Hank to lie. On the other hand, Linden Lab lies, misdirects, and hides information daily. I know who I believe in the matter. And yes, this - in principle could be done to any player at any time by Linden Lab who has demonstrated frequent nepotism.

Linden Lab is not your friend, they don't adhere to their own rules - nebulous though they may be - and "fair" is something that doesn't really matter to them. They also stole Bsby Jesus from my nativity build.

Anyone who operates two additional accounts in order to form a group to benefit from the group land bonus should learn from this story and keep a close watch on their alts at all times.

One of my alts made me send him 10k, he then proceeded to spend it at my vendor. I feel humiliated. He's now out there somewhere with 10k's worth of toy, laughing at me.

I feel for you Hank. I had a similar situation happen to me about a year and a half ago. Was out land, and a lot of L$.

With that said, there needs to be a change in the groups setup.

Groups are like marriages. Not many end well...

Big old bear hugz Hank. This is just WRONG. Everytime I turn around LL is making another bonehead PR move. In the end there is karma, well that and the press.

Someone please send a memo to LL. "The best way to go out of business is to rip off your customers" they just don't seem to get that these days.

Sad really our world had so much potential their world however really is starting to SUCK.

Hank friends like that you never needed.

Hugz

I don't know, we had sort of the converse situation in a group I was in - rogue officer returning other group members's things out of spite, etc - and while the land situation didn't happen, if it did, I could see it from both sides, too. A verbal agreement is only as good as the paper it's written on.

I mean, my sympathy is with Hank 'cause I know he's a fairly upstanding citizen, but if it was J. Random Avatar, I don't know.

I think it's much more a cautionary tale as to why you should never group-own land unless you (a) trust the other officers involved or (b) don't care too much about it.

This is a textbook reason of why I continue to keep the land for the Shelter in my name, rather than reap the advantages of having it group owned.

No matter how much you trust a group of friends or family, drama happens - misunderstandings happen.

Overhaul of the group system is sorely overdue.