Privacy (at least some) should be a Human Right in Second Life, too!

We can al make misstakes and we can al regret some things we have done in our lifes... and of course also change our mind when we learn or get more info...

/Tina

well... the stats they collect would actually benefit businesses.. it would let you see trends of the market and so forth..

i am obviously not seeing the clear picture here, but i am still a bit confused on why any information they collect is harmful to someone? I understand to a point that its no ones business where one goes.. but does it really matter if someone knows where you went?

(and dont' be an ass answering, im in a grouchy mood -.-)

Some examples of why the involuntary recording of names of individuals in a 20M radius of a watch wearer is a BAD THING:

A griefer wearing one of these hovers over your house for an hour or more, firebombing you and otherwise being a royal pain. Congratulations! You're now listed as his "Friend" by SLStats.com! Isn't that wonderful? Now anyone who looks you up with that service sees a claim that you're friends with a known Griefer. Whether you have a watch yourself or not.

An escort wearing one of these watches happens to be within 20 meters of you while you're at a club, dancing for an hour or more and oblivious to her presence. You're now listed as a 'friend' of this Escort, as is every other person who was in the club. Whether you have a watch yourself or not.

You stop to talk with a friend for a while, having teleported in to meet them. You are concentrating on the conversation and don't realise the attractive, tree-lined deck that you're sitting at is in the middle of a brothel. One escort wearing one of these watches in the vacinity would not only expose her full client list, but would list you as either an encounter or a friend, depending on how long you were innocently chatting to someone else outside this 'place of business'.

And did you know that if you are wearing one of these watches, anyone else with a watch can locate you and teleport to your location, even if they are not on your Friends list? There's already an SLStats blog entry from a user complaining about a watch user repeatedly trying to force entry into her skybox.

For those reasons alone you have a valid point on why this slstats is not a good idea... so where do i sign up to opt out?

Somehow I strongly believe the tool as given on answers thread violated CS disclosure policy.



As chat recording devices that are recording without prior consent of the people involved are violations of the CS, I feel similarly recording people's location without their prior knowledge would also fall under this.

IM Mark Barrett in-world and he is supposed to send you an opt-out box. I am still waiting for one for an alt that I created this weekend, to which he has not yet replied, even though he was on-line the first time I asked. I have asked twice.

He also has the opt-out boxes free at his store, if you're willing to increase his traffic count by going there in person to get one.

I won't consider the issue resolved until spyware-making businesses like SLstats change their tracking systems to monitor only those who opt-in.

Only Linden Labs has the legal right and moral perogative to dictate I agree to their terms of service just because I have logged into Second Life.

I am NOT going to jump through the hoops SLstats have 'generously' provided in order to exclude myself from their (dis)service. I have a right to NOT be included without my explicit consent.

- Arctic Fox

i'll ask, and if i do it today, i'll make sure i get a response..

I have heard horror stories about people who IM'ed him, he is rude and sarcastic to most, when told that they do not want to use an opt out object but rather remove them himself. He seems to think that people should take the effort to go to his location and or use his object to opt-out.

His opt-out object also mocks the user with warnings about their stupidity and other sorts of things. It's simply just not nice.

Well at least I will be entertained by his lack of intelligence and social skills...

Here is how I believe this so-called 'system' works:

a) People decide to "opt out" and follow SLstats.com's procedures to do so.

b) People (or 'other people': take your pick) do not opt out.

In giving people these two so-called 'choices,' SLstats.com imposes upon each and every SL user the obligation to choose option a) or option b). Either way they win and here's why:

Option a): those who 'opt out' are kidding themselves if they think they're forever wiped from SLstats.com's statistics. That is not the case in the sense that the company can point to the 'opt out' list and say "Look: our system is working fine. 0,000 users have opted out. See?" By following their instructions to 'opt out' you are in fact agreeing to abide by their policies and they can use this as corroborating evidence supporting their 'good business practices.'

Option b): congratulations! According to SLstats.com, your silence or reluctance to follow their procedures (or perhaps you're just unaware of their spyware and can therefore not decide either way to begin with!) mean you're one of the tens of thousands of SL users who are (according to them) happy to consent to being tracked throughout Second Life. "It works, see? Besides that we're doing nothing wrong because we offer an 'opt out,' right?"

Damned if you do; damned if you don't. I have to hand it to them: SLstats.com's circular logic is pretty slick - or at least I'd think so if it weren't us who were painted into a proverbial corner by it.

Here, for SLstats.com's benefit, is how I intend to procceed in addressing this matter:

- I am NOT bound by SLstats.com's policies, procedures, or terms of (dis)service because I want nothing to do with them.

- I will not go to SLstats.com's creator begging for an object to counter his spyware nor will I raise his store's traffic by going to get one. I shouldn't have to have an object to counter something I never agreed to in the first place!

- If I find anyone in my vicinity using spyware on me without my consent, I will immediately Abuse Report both them and the creator of the spyware.

- I am going to encourage everyone I know - and through this forum even people whom I don't know - to do the same: by sending in Abuse Reports you will be making your own statistics, namely letting LL know in no uncertain terms that you will NOT stand for this.

SLstats.com has NO right to tell you what to do or to make decisions on your behalf unless you specifically give them that right.

- Arctic Fox

I've been trying to write a followup SLStats article for the SL Herald, so I interviewed Mark Bartlett at length Saturday night. His plans for his service are such that he wants to gather as much data as possible. My impression is that sarcastic opt-out is the best privacy advocates will get from him.

Any improvement in the situation will have to come from the Lindens. There are a couple un-answered questions in the SL Answers forum that have been festering since yesterday afternoon:

/invalid_link.html
/139/eb/127562/1.html

Interesting, Hermia Linden has already provided her say in regards to this matter, but I'd still like to see how Torley would respond to this. I'm pretty sure Torley just misunderstood the technology presented, when it was given in such detail by Mark.

As of 9:50 AM CST, the site is unaccessable. Seems like it's taken down?

Here's a suggestion for the Lindens: if they won't ban spyware scripts outright, treat them like in-world animtions, dance machines, poseballs, etc.

[edit]: to draw a clear distinction between spyware and normal security objects and avatar detectors that *don't* try to collect, record, and/or export data about everyone without their knowledge or consent, I've changed the wording of the theoretical dialogue box:

This object would like to record and/or export information about your avatar. Is this OK? [Yes] [No]

Attn. Lindens: Put the right to retain control over who does what with our avatars back into our hands! If this is not feasible, make it against the TOS to violate our privacy by recording/exporting information about our avatars without first obtaining our *knowledge* and *consent*.

- Arctic Fox

(P.S.: imagine what SL would be like if SLstats.com's so-called 'logic' were applied to all of SL: "but unless and until you 'opt out' of my 'wild rear ride' animation by asking me for a 'counter object' I get to walk up to your avatar whenever I want, climb onto them, and ... (uh, you get the idea ). Naturally any resulting info will be made available on my website for all to see!"

I wonder if the lindens thought this script was a good idea, and was actually using the data collected... and did not realize that it could be used as a stalking tool...
or if they are to busy with everything else...

but i agree getting a popup would be nice, but can you imagine the lag when that person comes into a crowd?

http://slstats.com/ is down now.


Either he took the site down, or someone is doing a DDoS attack to shut him down.

i was wondering as well, i tried it a few min ago to the same effect.

Maybe the attention just generated too many hits, and he exceded his bandwidth alotment?

that would be nice, we could hit the site each month on the first big time and exceed his bandwidth..

I'm getting an MSN search error (because I'm at work on this crappy IE machine).

arent we giving permission for this kind of stuff via the TOS?

Also mostmainstream MMORPGs have this type of data collecting - I was shocked to find a WoW website that had all characters listed and full details on my equipment and stuff. I just shrugged and got on with my life - theres way more important things in life to stress over than wether other people know what my computer avatar is doing.

Permission for this sort of thing is given to Linden Labs, who I trust to act with some discretion and tact, and mostly use it in an agragate form internally, without names.

Permission was *not* granted to third party sites not afiliated with Linden Labs, like this one.

You know, there are people who've posted threads asking what could make you leave SL. The griefing, the crahes, the bugs, the downtime, etc. aren't enough to do it for me. But making a habit of allowing stuff like this...that could definitely do it.

yeah that part i agree with.. but someone pointed out that ppl can track you and zone to the area you are in.. which in itself is not that big of a deal, but the implications of what can happen aren't good :/

but isnt that kinda a seperate issue? I mean people can own guns, in RL but if you kill someone with it you are doing bad. If people use this information malicously then they should be dealt with but if the information is just here, I dunno, i just cant get myself stressed about it .

I just considered a game like SL, with is scripting and creation and stuff, this kinda stuff is bound to happen. I considered it would be a norm for the folks who love stats and stuff to be thriving over this type of thing in SL. To me its kinda like going to watch a car race and then complaining its too loud - it comes with the territory.