Push Restrictions, Round 2

Hey again, SL's Modern Primitive here. (God, I can't believe I just said that)

It's time for Push Restrictions Round 2. We got so much good feedback last time that I'm making another post to explain the new features we've got in preview right now. Please note that all of these changes are currently in 1.11.1.2 Preview, so feel free to take the info from here and go play with them.

For those of you that weren't watching for the first thread on this, I recommend you check this out first.

Starting with the easy part: We've added PARCEL_FLAGS_PUSH_RESTRICT and REGION_FLAGS_PUSH_RESTRICT to llGetParcelFlags() and llGetRegionFlags(). This should help everyone that was asking about predictive avoidance. I should note that if you're using these to check whether a parcel is Push Restricted, you'll always want to check both to get a proper status of whether the restriction is on or not. llGetParcelFlags will return 0 for a parcel that does not have push restrictions on, even if the region does have them on. The region's rule will override the parcel's in terms of the push regulation, but we reflect the status of the parcel mutually exclusive from the region's override in the flags.

Now then, the complex part: origin restrictions.

Here's the English version: In the first set of push restrictions, anyone who wanted to push without retaliation could sit in a push restricted parcel and go crazy on anyone passing in non-restricted land. As a land owner, when you say "You can't push things in my parcel unless I say so" in your land, you should also have the ability to say "You also can't use my parcel as a base to push other people, unless you are me (i.e. the owner), or you are in the group I have set this parcel to".

And now, the technical, "I'm a developer who has a problem explaining things in sentences so here's some logic" version:

If the ORIGIN of a push is over a push restricted parcel and the target of the push is in a different parcel, then the push restriction ruleset of that parcel is applied to the origin in order to tell whether or not the push will have an effect. Here's what the logic looks like:

===

TARGET CHECK:
If the target of the push is in a non push restricted parcel OR
(If the target of the push is in a push restricted parcel AND
(The target is pushing themselves OR
The target is being pushed by the owner of the parcel OR
The target is being pushed by someone in the group of the parcel)) CONTINUE TO ORIGIN CHECK
Else FAIL PUSH
ORIGIN CHECK:
If the origin of the push is in a non push restricted parcel OR
(If the origin of the push is in push restricted parcel AND
The parcel the origin is in is different than the parcel the target is in AND
(The origin is in a parcel where they are the owner OR
The origin is in a parcel where they are in the group the parcel is set to)) RUN PUSH
Else FAIL PUSH

===

Now, these new rules are still not a catch-all, and they will not end all griefing, nor am I claiming that. Every bit helps, however.

*happydances*

I applaud this!

Ummmm:

There are now guns on the market that are unaffected by the push restrictions.Currently there is only one maker. I suspect that soon there will be many. While technically it is not a "push" weapon per se, its effects are the same and fully operable in safe areas even where no-push is in effect. So much for anti-push. End of story.

Oh yes? IM me in-world with the location where these are available, please. A search yielded nothing for me.

P.S. NOT end of story, regardless how some may wish others to believe.

Search again. The seller is doing very heavy advertising and is very easy to find in the classifieds. Ummmm. Did you do a search under "weapons?"

Ummmmmmmmmmm NO, but I searched for "guns" and "push."

Try "weapons" and read the blurbs.

Testing this is limited to people who own land in the preview grid, right? The grid with three parcels for sale and the land sale mechanism doesn't work. Is that correct?

Kudos to the developers! Yes, that was precisely what I was hoping to see!


So you're saying that just because someone has a different class of weapon, that the class that we CAN do something about doesn't matter? Not really. This still take most of the free 'Saturday night specials' out of the hands of the common griefer, and at the very least forces them to spend REAL MONEY to get their toys. They can't create an alt with zero L$, go to a freebie store and arm themselves with push weapons, and go on a rampage. I call that real progress.

Of course, there will always be another way to cause trouble. No one says this will stop ALL griefing. But it will bring a lot of it to a screeching halt.

I love the work that's being done on push restrictions. This has made a major difference in the lives of club and store owners/managers who've had to deal with excess griefing.

However, we currently have a repeat griefer who likes to drive by, hover outside of our parcel and toss huge fire particle effects onto our land. There's no push report so I doubt these are bombs, they're just horribly spammy particles that completely obscure vision. He's been AR'd 4 times now, and the last time I asked for help in Live Help I was told to AR him, which I'd already done (We also have auto-return set to 1 minute but that's long enough for particles to work)

Please, PLEASE, isn't there a way to detect whether the owner of an object or particle effect is banned and prevent them from rezzing anything on the land from which they are banned? Can't this be sort of a reverse mute?

Similar options for restricting particles would be fantastic.

"No particles except for objects owned by parcel owner (or the deeded equivalent)" would make Ahern a tad more bearable again!



Regards,

-Flip

CTRL ALT SHIFT =

End of particles.

You might have to activate the debug menu first. (CTRL ALT D I believe).

So when are we going to be able to make ourselves and our vehicles immune to push? Parcel option is nice but this really needs to be something we can turn on for ourselves. An option to completely turn it off, or to allow push only according to the same ruleset used for parcel push restrict, or to allow all pushes, would be really nice. That way, we could travel anywhere and not have to worry about whether the land owner has push restrict turned on - or whether the landowner is going to give us trouble, which I have experienced in the past, and which the current system gives no protection against.

Also, right-clicking a vehicle (even if it's not yours) freezes it. I've said it before: this is a bug and it needs to go away. You should not be able to freeze another person's physical objects at will.

I figured all that out a year ago, Zi. But when your club is frequented by new people who can barely even maneuver their camera it is still a major issue -- and I don't care if we have particles on or off, the intent of the griefer remains to be "make their lives miserable because I'm a miserable person".

It only makes sense to me that banned people should not have any ability at all to rez prims, create effects or shout into property from which they're banned. We got the banned = muted option, now we just need it extended to prims & particles.

Our avatars have the ability to choose to be immune to physics by sitting on a non-physical object. I have something of a love/hate relationship with this "feature" but since it's a choice I don't mind so much.

My beef is that when we can so easily strip the world of it's most fundimental forces like gravity, inertial, and solidity it makes things like terrain, movement, and walls meaningless. Things can get surreal very quickly if we take away the world's ability to influence our movement and behavior.

I applaud the parcel PUSH limitations added by the Lindens because they respect the basic notion of fundimental forces by only controlling the behavior of objects and not avatars. This is crucial.

In a side story, I (like many others) once scripted a "non-pysical" sheild... basically a non-pysical vehicle that allowed me to move around sitting while still appearing to fly. It was clunky and unnaturual but it kept me from getting pushed. After about two days I stopped using it because being completely immune to the fundimental forces was, well, boring.

I suggest allowing push if the avatar willingly sits on the object, as there's no way to force a sit, and it would make human cannons and car alarms work again. and maybe it requests permissions?

please consider, thanks.

Actually, I don't see push as a fundimental force. I see it as a hazard and one that only objects and avatars can use. The ground itself doesn't use PUSH, nor the wind.

I wouldn't mind if the ability to turn push off on avatars came with a similar kind of limitations that the lands have.

Anyone know if the Linden Sandboxes are set no-push?

If this is true, then whoever designed it is a f*cking asshat!

I hate this new push restrastions because I have many reasons, When the implainted this it started Messing up my collars and doors that use a push, also When My friend gave me land and Litterly took off the push restration due to the jedi group i'm in use's push sabers, A Linden flys by and takes it apone her self to Set all FOUR of the pieces of land my friend gave me to PUSH RESTRATION and all of a suddenly my Saber stops working and the whole group is Ticked off, and i'm ticked that it mess's with objects such as collars and other things, there should be another way to deal with the push without effecting so Much stuff that we pay for, and the Facts that a Lidnen can just swoop by and see a bouch of jedi's per say dualing each other and pushing each other around "HAVING FUN" And Just says well I don't see his name as the owner of this land so I'll just abuse my god mode and set the land to Push restrations and then Run off


Great job Linden lab, really, I even contacted a linden to get hte land set back to how it was, and YOu state you can't mess with owned land only the land owner can, well guess what YOU AREADY DID MESS WITH THE LAND, Linden switched it to push restration, wasn't my friend who gave me the land, How do I know this a fact? Simple he was offline and "Stephen Linden" Was Litterly "Watching Us Dual" and when she seen one of us get pushed she flys closer and rights clicks the land "Hence I litterly See her hand the dots go VIA "Directly at the land" I have bare witness of this event as well willing to state this happen, And I would like all FOUR OF MY Parcels set back to how they where so Are Jedia Training with sabers Can Contiune, Please My land owener is to busy with other stuff to drop by and Fix this!!

If they sit on an object that is physical, they are still vulnerable to push, because the push restriction doesn't apply to objects (unfortunatly).

Cube,

Please consider making physical objects also immune to push. There's a whole mess of content that simply can't be created because physical objects can be subverted, undetectably, by anyone, even in no-script, no-build land (they can wear a pusher in).

Lets give people the options to make their land follow the laws of physics!

Just to let you know, I am looking at this, I just want to make sure that all the edge cases are covered so I don't accidently nerf something. Assuming everything works out (which I'm pretty sure it will), watch for it at some point after 1.12.