SL Trade Descriptions Act

Ok, after looking around a few places I'm convinced that SL could use a Trade Descriptons Act or at least a voluntary code of practice for clothing vendors as follows:

- All clothing on sample panels will be shown as genuine SL captures, and worn by an avatar and skin that is either a) the default avatar/skin as dispensed by the tutorial area, or b) on sale from the same store.

It is extremely frustrating to spend L$ on items and find that they do not look anything like they do on the example posters because they are modelled on a unique avatar which is not available anywhere. Yes, I could make the avatar/skin myself, but if I had the time/skill to do that I'd have made the clothing item too.

Example: Curious Kitties. All of the items available are shown worn on an avatar/skin which is privately owned by Anshin Yossarian and not available anywhere (and which also includes "fixes" for various SL foibles such as lack of shading on body parts). So the panels there essentially give no information about what the item will actually look like to the buyer, unless the buyer happens to be an artist capable of redesigning skins.

Something I find frustrating is that most panels for AVs for sale show the AV with hair, which isn't included.

That's fine, but I wish sellers would at least tell the buyers where the hair can be found.

Caveat Emptor is status quo. LL shows no interest in things like consumer rights. My suggestion to you would be to contact the seller and ask to see it on them OR to only deal with known/established merchants who have good reputation for quality work. For examples or a start list, PM me. I maintain a fairly thorough listing as part of my former 'personal shopper' business.

Good luck.

While its not at the top of my personal wish list, others have expressed the same concern you have, Yumi:

Prop #33 Try Before Buy

No, thanks.

How about this one.. Much like in Real Life, buyers should be aware that the model does not come with the dress.

It's unrealistic and unfair for people to expect sellers to dumb-down that much because some people don't realize clothing doesn't change the shape or skin of your avatar.

The picture should be a true and unretouched representation of the clothing. It should be clear enough to see. The item should state clearly what you get for your money. That should be enough.

In some cases it would be nice if the model's figure came with the dress.

The clothes don't make the avatar.

No really.

Of course vendors aren't going to display their wares on a model wearing the default skin and hair. Why not? Because that makes their clothing look bad because the default skin and hair really aren't all that. It should be expected that consumers exercise some dress sense and figure out how the clothes would look on -their- av before they buy them, not just that, but to realize that a vendor is going to want the prettiest model to wear their clothes so the overal look of the cardboard cut-out/image they use is increasingly more appealing to customers so basically they'll get more sales.

Something like this is saying that when you shop from catalogues they should give you free full plastic surgery to make you as beautiful as the models who are wearing the clothes: of course the clothes are going to look better on the prettiest model than they will on the average person, the same thing applies to SL.

I have an unusual av, so I hardly ever expect stuff to look exactly like it does one the model. I'm happy as long as the straps line up if it has them and all the seams match. I would never sell my av shape, neither would most people because it's a very personal thing. It's rather unrealistic to buy an outfit from Jonquille or any one else and expect to get a copy of them in the box, that's like buying a designer outfit in RL and expecting it to make you a supermodel. I'd love to have the try before you buy thing, it'd saved me a fortune in lindens by now, but it's a learning experience too, you learn which designers do quality work and who not to buy from. Also it never hurts to ask if you can see an expensive purchase in world before you buy it, usually designers are wonderful people and will oblige you, if they aren't busy.

How does this list get maintained if your participation in SL is restricted to the forum?

This problem is not limited to SL. I bought a nightie from the Victoria's Secret catalog, and it doesn't look half as good on my wife as it looked in the picture. Made me want to sue.

Anyway, I think your idea is impractical to make as a "rule". People will learn, the hard way if necessary, just like RL, that if the avatar in the picture is different from yours, the clothing will look different.

I would agree that photoshopped improvement should be frowned upon.

Buster

Sure. Everyone knows that RL catalogues sell clothes to people by showing them worn by models who'd look good in anything.

But. This isn't RL. In SL, the model can come with the dress - which means that judgments can be made about the decision that it doesn't. Saying the above is a bit like saying that it's to make a thing in a non-PVP area that traps or kills players who fall too far because players should know from RL that falling long distances is dangerous.

"Avatars are too personal, you'd wind up looking exactly like the designer" is a fair point. But the model shot doesn't have to be the designer's avatar. Or, to make things more general, they could include a list of avatar variables with required setting ranges to make the clothing look best.

Is it really the goal of SL to deliberately ensure that some avatars don't look beautiful, even when the game system would allow everyone to?

(Actually, one thing I did think of that would be nice: a meter on the edit appearance screen that tells you how good your avatar is! Impossible? No! The SL database could look at everyone's av settings, use those people's appearance rating and sales etc. to work out which people are probably "good" at making avatars, and then the meter would measure how similar the current one is to ones made by those people. Essentially, using the database to teach the computer to identify good looking stuff. When fashions change, so would the ratings and the system would update!)

Not big on clothes shopping, but that'd be a really... boring, ineffective bit of marketing there. The default avatar is ugly as hell. If I sold clothes I'd rather put a big question mark on the box than use the dorkassed avatars LL gives to the newbs.

Sure. But is it fair to take L$ from newbies who may not yet understand that their avatar is "dorkassed", or how to fix it - or even be able to fix it at all?

I remain unconvinced.

This is not only important for reasons of completeness, but for making connections and collaborations. I too, am frustrated, when I see a really awesome ensemble and desire more than one part of it, but don't know where to go! Often, I'll see if I can ask the person who put up the display (if they're not the Creator of all the schtuff themselves), but making the information more readily available is a good step. For example, in some of the posts in the Gallery forum, some Resis post "Hair courtesy of so-and-so" or "Handbag made by so-and-so" and this HELPS!

Along this thoughtline, Linden Lab could have a contest for 2006 UPGRADES of the default avs. I'd suspect this would encourage people to come together and work in teams to assemble killer combos. One person makes the skin, another makes the clothes, another makes the hair (seeing as how prim hair is quite ubiquitous), and soforth. We could have a great lineup in the Library—and that Library should be updated more with useful things! (Heck, the Ben-Go isn't even in there, what's up with that? IM me if you're wondering what a Ben-Go is and want one.)

ADDITIONALLY... I too was confused by some of the Curious Kitties packaging. I say this being a big fan of theirs—I was, for example, mistakenly under the impression that Helyanwe Vindaloo's lovely horns came with her hair! BTW, also, it's "Ameshin".

Cheerio!

Your suggestion sounds like it'd be good for the Stepford Wives game. Leave the conforming to standardized beauty out of here. If someone wants that look, fine. If perfected appearance is that crucial to someone, evaluate the availabe products and pay for it the same way you pay for an architects prefab has if it is preferrable to your ability to create one.

I can see, vaguely the objection to this, which is: "We have to make the default avs look bad, so that people will change them. If they looked good, people wouldn't change them, and then everybody would look the same."

A possible solution would be to have "avatar classes" which would let you pick a general type of avatar and then customise parameters specific to it, as in Poser. This would give people a way to look unique without the "get the numbers right or you'll look just plain bad" angle.

And as for the rejection stamp, you can talk about capitalism if you like, but remember it's the people who can't create stuff themselves who are your customers - a) there's more of them, and b) people who can create stuff don't need to buy it.

I'm familiar with this, and the counterargument is very easy:


Always room for improvement.

Part of my point was that, in many cases, the avatars aren't available to be paid for.

Also, "conforming to standardized beauty" doesn't seem to be such a big deal on SL, because again, unlike RL, you don't have to commit your life to conforming. If you decide you want to stop conforming, just drag and drop your nonconformist folder! As for the avatar evalation gauge thing - that doesn't necessarily conform to standardised beauty. When you're doing your first av it's easy to make something that doesn't even look human, or where part of your skull is showing through your hair, or things like that - I wouldn't call spotting when you've made these likely errors equivalent to enforcing a standard of beauty!

in affect your asking for truth in advertizing I just don't see that happening in sl, sorry.

Mar

I make clothes. I don't make avatars. If someone wants to look ugly, or beautiful, or robotic, or monsterous, or furry, or whatever, that is entirely their choice. Has it never occurred to you that people might not want others to decide how they'll look, or to be perfect little Barbie dolls?

Each person can be as beautiful or interesting as they choose to be here. We all have the same options. It's not my intention, nor my job, to lay out your av for you every day before you go to school.

I don't make avatars professionally and never will but if you catch me when I'm bored I don't mind tweaking/giving advice, but I don't see a point to the whole idea of grading av beauty cause beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some avs people think are beautiful I can't stand and some really weird avs I just think are cool. If anyone judges you by your av appearance I wouldn't want to be around them anyway. In SL like RL the pretty people can be total snots and some ugly people can be the best and nicest people you know.

The thing is, what your avatar looks like is entirely personal. I've yet to meet someone who's avatar was not unique who had been in the game a significant amount of time. I've yet to meet a clone of myself or a clone of anyone else I've met in game.

Your avatar's look is part of who you are, and this is probably part of why designers - even if they could and most don't do all parts of av creation - don't include avatar looks in their shops. Why? Most people wouldn't even look twice at them.

Yes, futzing with the sliders can be hard, I went through every single one of them at a time, then tweaked a few a week or so later, and I was done. It takes a half hour, maybe an hour, but then you are special, you are unique, and most importantly you are you, or at least that virtual you you've always wanted to be.

Then you get to pick from hundreds of different hairstyles made by top notch designers to further customize your looks, plethoras of skin, accessories, clothing. So again I don't think most designers think to include "standard avs" in their shop because people are so picky. I tweaked my own body shape, I bought my hair from one vendor (I actually bought 4 or 5 sets til I finally settled on one), I bought a few costumes from different shops, I bought my skin from somewhere else entirely.

Actually, some of us are so picky in these matters that for instance it took me several hours with the help of two veterans in the game to find the skin that was just right for me.

And beyond just looking human there are again so many choices, you could be a bat, a dragon, a robot, a small guy in a gnome costume, a tiny bunny, a tiny badger, Mr Incredible, a fallen angel with big tattered rune engraved wings (if you want a pair, look me up in game ), or a mix of all the above!

So in conclusion, while some people may benifit from preset avs and such (and I still think just putting in the time and effort to create their own unique avatar instead of using a prefab is more benificial to them and the community as a whole in the long run) most people are just too damn picky, and want to be one particular way too much for this to warrant the time investment designers would have to put in to create ready-to-buy avs for customers to buy when they see a model wearing other products wearing that av.

Prefabs work for a lot of thing, but I don't think most people in SL would ever want to have a prefab avatar to represent them.

Of course, I could be wrong. ^^;

I think a better idea is for Linden Lab to implement an actual "try before you buy" feature in SL - which would load the clothing temporarily on your avatar - or show it in another window like a dressing room. Something like the dressing room feature in World of Warcraft would be great. Maybe someone already suggested this or they are working on it. Of course us designers can make demo versions for everything but that is not an ideal solution for lots of reasons.

This issue also reveals the need for a service industry of "makeover artists" or custom avatar crafters. Not prefab avatar creators but people who specialize in creating a unique look for people - or replicate a look the customer desires. Let them do the work of figuring out the avatar shape settings, getting the right skins and hair. Maybe someone is already doing this sort of thing but its probably an untapped market.