About these new classifieds.....

This annyoing character gaming really turns me off of the new classifieds. I took a screen shot to show what I am talking about. I advise no one do business with those who do this.

Why is price on this list? Don't we still have dwell to determine popular places. I want my classified search results sorted by dwell. That's what it's for. It also negates character gaming right up front.

Price? Whose bright idea was that?

I dont think dwell is fair either. I think result order should be completely random myself.

I believe their thinking was that people wouldnt use this for long term advertising but more short term on things like new products. Mainly that I'd use it for 1 product or set of new products. Like if I made a bedroom furniture set, I'd advertise that set along with a pic & price, and not really be advertising my store in general.

I think the new classifieds are veritably useless and I wholeheartedly stand behind Beau's statements.

Its really hard to find anything unless you are looking for something specific. There really is no capability to browse to see whats new in Gothic Women's Wear or New Hair Attachments.

I won't use it as is. It needs to be sortable by date of submission. Then it might be useful. And it needs a heck of a lot more categories.

I agree. I saw this coming because when they were testing the classifieds I signed up and they pulled my store name and description from my land info. Now my land description had my store name in quotes: "No Mercy". So when they added my store to the list during testing, my store name came up near the very top of the list. I knew then immediately once they automated the system tons of people would use character symbols to get listed first. BTW the quotation marks in my land description has ALWAYS been there and have nothing to do with any list sorting or such. I say refine things or remove the classifieds (well most of them).

Dont get me wrong, Im not saying I like it or that its functional. Im just explaining what I thought was their reasoning behind including price in the list.

Wow, Beau and I are on the same page today. Sorry about the dupe thread!

Yours has prettier pictures and like real meaty context to it. You stole my thunder flip!

If it's any consolation, your picture was better.

I am surprised by some of the names up there with spaces. They are already popular and do not need to do this. I do think the classifieds could become useful if used effectively, for items and not stores. At times like these, I'm compelled to compare this to my time in TSO when nothing like this was ever available, so I hesitate to condemn it in it's entirety.

I will more likely buy from sellers using it correctly

As people understand the classifieds better, this can improve ... adding keywords to the description to facilitate searching ...

hmmm maybe I shouldn't have said that ... now we'll get long non-informative descriptions stuffed with keywords ...

OK .. Im off to edit my classified ad ...

I can't believe anybody's suprised about this. It's a quick, ill-thought out cludge that's not fit for purpose and is open to all sorts of naming, pricing etc. tricks to play it to your advantage. And it's hardly easy to use for those you're aiming your advertisements at either.

When oh when will Linden Lab properly think about new features before adding them. HUDs - give me a break, there's another piss-poor implementation that could have been so much more, rather than the awkward cludge (my favourite word lately) we have. Oh, and XML-RPC, don't get me started. That classifieds is a mess doesn't suprise me. We've only just got multiple drag-and-drop. Only now! I mean, they've got no clue about useability at all.

The biggest problem at Linden Lab is that new features are apparently specified, authored and verified by purely technical people without any due input from useability experts. And they always take the path of least resistance, with fewest number of features.

Have I told you about the night that the pub ran out of crisps?

You're hardly surprised about this either considering that the devs choose to work on whatever features, or subfeatures, they fancy at any given time, and shelve the ones that don't peak their interest. Even point release previews consist of whatever whoever is working on that might be ready enough to graft (I use that term very very loosely) into the code well enough to test with no guarantee that it might actually be included in the final product.

But they're not researching no no no Second Life is gold and in full production yes sir it is.

My question would be then, if the devs are working on whatever features and sub-features they fancy at any given time, why are those features nearly always so poorly implemented as to be far from what they could of been with a little thought? You know, HUDs are my personal problem feature at the moment. They're dissapointing. The implementation is sub-standard. As a basic you should be able to get in a car, or wear an attachment and the HUDs automatically show - but no, you either have to use a script to rez it in world, request permissions and then attach it, or you have to give them the HUD as a seperate object for them to attach manually. It's so far from having been designed with useability in mind, it's unreal. And, we're all used to HUDs in any other piece of software moving as toolbars change, as the screen is resized etc. If you've snapped them bottom right, they stay snapped bottom right. Nope - instead they resize and don't stay in a fixed position (make your screen smaller, and you'll lose part of the HUD). Yet even the standard SL HUDs (the mini map for instance) have this basic functionality. This isn't even thinking out of the box. It's knowing what a box is and how people use boxes normally.

I thought this was supposed to be cutting edge? It's rapidly becoming blunt.

I'll refuse to believe SL is cutting edge, even as just a 3D environment, unless we get features that have been well planned and thought about, until we've got proper building tools (meshes, anybody? Is this even being thought about by LL???), until LL take useability seriously enough to bring people in who know about it and can blue-sky new features from that perspective whilst they're being planned and developed. What's the point in being a content creator if the things you create are a pain in the ass to use - those who aren't content creators will end up losing interest.

*deep breath*

But, to bring it back on topic - the classifieds feature is a techie's implementation with the least amount of dev work. It's rubbish.

I dont really disagree, but there is something I think you are not considering here in regards the HUD.

You use language like "normal" and "used to," in that you have obviously used similar devices/interfaces in other games, so I think you might be making some assumptions about what the intended functionality of the thing is that may or may not be correct.

SL is quite different from the other types of driving/shooting games that generally use HUD, so it occurs to me that the functionality LL is designing for here might be broader-based and not necessarily just related to the types of uses you have seen before.

i.e- if it was designed to be "just like it is" on those other patforms, then it might limit the development of other non-shooting/driving related uses.

Caveat/Discalimer: I have never played a game with a "HUD" (or a driving/shooting game at all really), so my comments are just based on logical possibilities, not on any actual knowledge of LL's design goals etc.

Gee whiz golly Moopf, you're making this sound like work. LL is "a fantastic and challenging place to work." You wouldn't want to turn it into a boring old treadmill of efficient operation would you? This is what Jarod was talking about in my sig btw.

Erm, how are basic useability features missing got anything to do with being broader-based? You play a game with a HUDs now that you don't have to rez in-world to attach or that don't stay snapped - it's called Second Life and the Mini Map is just one example of that.

Francis Chung has developed a car with a HUD. You have to attach the HUD seperately because Francis felt that was the best way to do it (out of the poor options available). It fits nicely on Francis' screen - I used it on a smaller sized window and I couldn't see most of the HUD without going into edit and manually moving it - not user-friendly is it. It's basic useability, to be broader-based you'd want to capture those sorts of situations, no? You'd at least want to try and capture what people are used to and build from there. You give options. At the moment the functionality of HUDs, especially in terms of how their appearance on screen is handled, is inferior to any HUD I've used in any software for years.

Thanks for pointing that out. It sounds great in theory, but I'd contend that it's not working in practice and isn't suitable to developing something like Second Life in a manageable, consistent and in-depth way. Bits of features here and there just leave you feeling unsatisfied, and that's what this process is currently producing.

Well like I said I dont necessarily disagree with you, but it seems you are being a bit snippy here and not really reading my argument very closely, so I shall bow out of the debate (but not gracefully )

The ungracefull part is where I highlight the fact that you are saying essentially the same thing that you said before (above), and remind you that it is just an assumption on your part.

Great minds think alike, Flip and Beau!

I see nothing in my response that was "snippy" or even gave the impression that I did not read your arument very closely - I addressed it head on.

The "assumption" isn't mine alone, and is shared by several other content creators (and experienced ones at that) who I have spoke at length to about this, who are finding the same issues of useability for the end user.

But I too can be ungraceful if you like - maybe you should try creating a product for general, mass consumption using a HUD before you comment on whether my assumptions are correct or not. I think you'll quickly come to see that it isn't straight forward for your end consumer to use and that, more than likely, you'll have people needing support because basics that they will expect do not happen. Oh, and yes, that may indeed be "snippy". Take it as you wish.

Suggestion:

Classifieds be sorted by something other than alphabetical?

uh.. What she said ^^^^^

Briana Dawson