How could a casino game prove to you that it is not cheating?

I recently had a customer ask about a game I made as a custom project, asking if I could add code to it that would help to prove to players that it wasn't cheating.

Can anyone suggest (or "think of"!?) any output or display that a scripted game could produce that would enable you to trust that it was fair? I myself can't think of any, because anything could be forged, but someone probably knows better

Open source code plus certification by a trusted, independent third party (which opens the problem of where to find such third party and ensure they meet the criteria).

The machines are designed to favor the casino. This is called House Advantage. This is legal and accepted.

You couldn't prove to me a machine doesn't cheat unless you proved it had no hard-coded House Advantage, which casinos won't do

Rei, the question is not whether the machine had a house advantage, but if the casino is blatantly cheating. Games like blackjack, Roulette, poker, etc all have a house advantage built into the nature of the game itself. But, if the script is designed to make sure you don't by chance get blackjack 3 times in a row, that's cheating.

I really believe the only way we'll ever get "fair" casino games in any MMO is if they are regulated by a federal gambling commission.

Oh, I KNOW what the question is. I'm being about 50% smartass and about 50% honest there. Casinos are designed so that they take more of your money than you get back. Beyond that, to me, the difference all becomes a little arbitrary.

You may have noticed, from my posts in the past, that I don't like casinos.

Give it a pair of eyes. You can always tell by looking into the eyes.

I do not expect any game to be fair that is not:

A. Open source and affordable (So I can buy and view a copy myself for less than 10k) or

B. Showing a creators name that I trust.

Who do you trust?

Do you trust Microsoft?

I wouldn't trust any casino game where I couldn't actually open the machine up and view the source code first. Just like in RL, any money I put into gambling I'd assume that I was going to lose, and anything I get back is a bonus.

I don't trust any casinos or gambling game in first or second life, and apart from the occasional spin out of boredom, I avoid them all. Whilst the chance of winning would of course be attractive.... the chance of losing much more puts me off.

I'd rather earn my money by doing something useful.

Lewis

And it's a lot harder to be angry at something once you give it eyes.

lol

Why is gamlbing allowed on SL servers in California unregulated? If gambling in SL isn't real then why are minors on the teengrid prevented from having gambling? If LL considers the gambling in SL real, are they breaking gambling regulations by allowing it?

wonders how long it will be before someone turns in SL to CLifornia Authorities for Gambling. Possible reason for turning it in: getting rid of one of the big uses of camping chairs that will not go the way of the dodo when Developer incentive does.

Because in the end LL specifies in the TOS that Ls have no "value".

Neither do chips, until you cash them out. You cash out Lindens and since it is now added to the SL site it is more transparent that L$ have value. Plausible deniability isn't what it used to be.

I'm still a relative noob -- but have done a bit of research on online gaming, esp for poker games, like Pacific Poker, et al. These are regulated only insofar as they belong to a better business bureau type agency. There are many BBB type of organizations that certify the code is legit. The reason why many of them exist in small developing nations is to avoid the legal/regulatory/tax problems of online gaming.

You're right about House odds -- that's why gambling is never really fair. The only way it's fair, is if you have an equal shot at the odds every time (to which you'll lose most of the time).

However, there are many ways one could game the code, even if the algorithms were legit. Any game that plays against the house is open to fraud. If you bet L$100, and I raise, $200, and so on, and it gets to a house player; if the code is transfering your bet money straight to the house, it has the sum of all your bets to lay against you. Or, say the house doesn't appear, but a guy who seems to have a lot of $L keeps matching your bet and raising... you ahve to wonder if he's a second node on the above scam. The money goes to the house, and then to a guy sitting at the table, who has the sum of all your bets to play against you.

Another kind of fraudelent code adjustment would be to code the machine to pay the user a percentage of how much is cumulatively gambled (enough to keep you going), rather than running your bet against the algorithm of the slot/game each time you pull the lever.

That's the kind of fraud I'd like to see exposed.

People in SL on these forums often think of Governor Linden and the Lindens as game fixers. They're not. They maintain the platform. Every time I see whinging about what Lindens could do but don't to fix indivual games (b/c that's not their job), I think 'there's another business opportunity.' There is a huge business waiting to happen in certifying gambling scripts and establishments; it combines the technical expertise to look at the code, manage certification, and a bit of social network theory to build a trust system with the casinos and users.

I'm a poker night with buddies kind of guy and won't play in SL until I know that the establishment is legit.

There is a way to verify that a machine is only taking the "prescribed" house take - whatever the house publishes it is taking that is.

That is the method used by independant auditors in a real casino investigation.

Run the numbers.

Feed in x thousand runs of the machine and look at the final results ( random numbers - and any "fixing" of the numbers - will over time and a great many runs show up their nature )

So if the house is publishing 3% and is in fact taking 5% the numbers at the end of of a long run will be closer to 5% than 3%.

The only problem with that method is that the number of test runs you have to do is very very time consuming - a good set of data can be well above 5000 runs of a machine.


(And given the nature of SL - when you prove a house is taking more than it should - it just says sorry, blames the scripter, and removes the machine to be replaced with another - in RL the casino itself is removed never to re-appear )

( My own games use random numbers and I have to admit to every casino owner who wants them that I cannot guarentee a "house take" as I will not alter the outcome of the random number generator )

Letting me win consistently for four decades would be my preferred method of proving a gambling script was not cheating me.

Uhm...what about the rampant prostitution in SL? Maybe you should mention that to them.

Just because they call them “escorts” doesn't mean they aren't hookers.

Is Linden Lab legally liable for the gambling content that's been placed on their servers, or is it the content creators and gamblers themselves? I'd suspect the latter.

Or, to take another example... if somebody ran a gambling service through a gmail account, would google be legally liable?

I suspect it'll be the responsibility of the individual "casio" owner to ensure he/she is complying with appropriate real-world legislation. SL just happens to be the medium through which that person is executing their business.

Or, more succinctly: don't expect Linden Lab to take all the rap when the authorities come knocking...

In case this wasn't facetious, sexx0rz in SL is far more like (legal) phone sex than (mostly illegal in the US) actually renting bits of your anatomy.

I'm not saying it makes sense, but that's how it is.

Sidebar: I can sell my back and arm muscles to dig ditches, my legs and arms to play football or piano, but selling another particular subset of one's body is illegal?

This is an excellent question and one I'd like examined in depth.

First of all, the laws regulating internet gambling are far from clear. There is no current legislation that specifically refers to gambling over the internet. Many people believe that laws regulating gambling over the telephone would apply, but this has never been tested in court. There is legislation going through Congress now that would apply regulation to internet gambling, mostly by making it all illegal.

It's easy to say "blame the content creators" and leave it at that. But practically, it's impossible for a small-scale content creator to comply with regulations when he's just one guy and he has customers coming from all over the world. Recent experience shows it's much easier to go after the carrier.

Are you someone who doesn't like gambling on Second Life? Sue Linden Labs and put them out of business. Problem solved. Internet gambling issues could affect everyone in Second Life, gamblers and non-gamblers alike. It would be nice to see Linden Labs take some proactive steps on this issue, before it blows up.

I cannot think of any way to prove a gambling machine is fair. What does that mean anyway?

My personal solution is to only gamble with disposable income for which I have no other purpose. As there are many many more entertaining things to do with the money, my gambling schedule goes something like never never, next never, the never after that et cetera.