Expanded zone rating - pg, mature, XXX

I agree it could be considered bad form on behalf of those individuals. I would think it so. And criticism of the behaviour may be fair. That's a long way from regulating or restriciting it though.

The logic behind this is inherently flawed. This presumes there were at least equivalent amount of each available in the first place, therefore the PG land is selling faster.

In which case, a shortage would result, and the laws of demand and supply would kick in. PG land would increase in price, and more PG land would be rolled out to meet demand.

I think the demand for PG land is starting to increase, and more will come, but because of the entry of RL companies and organisations in SL, rather than the needs of individuals. I'm building for an RL organisation now, and the sim is PG. Speaking of which, I need to log on and get some work done.

That's the logical thing, but we are talking Linden Lab here. Considering the lack of enthusiasm over non-commercial activities (still waiting a month after Philip Linden promised to get back to me for an answer on that), is there a similar lack of enthusiasm there over PG land?



I usually need to log off to get some work done....

Lewis

While I think grouping the areas would be nice, I don't think there are too few PG sims. When I went shopping for land a few months back, I searched by land-size and price (1024m for under 6L$/m). The majority of the found lands were in PG sims.

While this may seem to reflect that M sims are simply higher priced per sqm (and they are), expanded searches yielded nearly the same results. I still had a noticably larger selection of lands in PG areas

The point? While PG/M lands can be frustrating to those who wish the other, I feel there is a good mix of them for teh community demand. How they are arranged is the crux of the matter imo.

As for creating XXX sims (under whatever title); No.

Fade is right. All land in SL (save for a few plots of roadways by LL) are privately owned. Expected behavior is determined by the person whom owns the land. If I wander into a RolePlaying area for Star Wars fans, I'm not going to break out the whips and hot wax and demand the stormtrooper strip. On the flipside, I'm not going to wander into a D/s community and demand they stop all the public displays.

With the scenerio detailed by the OP, I would make a decission on what type of store they were in. If the store was selling bondage gear then the Domme was within her genre. If it was a store selling suits and dresses, then the Domme needs to learn how to be a Domme.

~Jessy *chucks .02L$ on the table and tosses a salute*

Dont miss quote me here.......... As you know this game has many diff kinds in here is waht i refering too........ I the last should talk about this subject.....with the subject being sex.

Key difference. PG land earns the same tier as M land. It'll still make them money. Non-commercial equates to less revenue, if you're talking anything that involves discounting tier or upfront costs.

I would have to agree that the behavior of the D/s group was inappropriate. Then again, they were in a mature sim, yes? Most D/s people that I know would think it perfectly OK to walk their submissives on leash in a Mature area. Caging and disciplining them out in public is rather like making love on the park bench, though. They should have taken that somewhere more private.

I believe the TOS already covers such behavior, indicating that sex shouldn't happen out in the open where those who don't want to watch might see it.

I don't think you could reliably enforce a XXX versus Mature sim rating. I live it one of two Mature sims that I designed. I worked with the sim owner to define 'acceptable practice' in those communities. For example in most open areas, like around the resort pool, it's a Mature sim. Behavior that would get an R rating or less may happen at poolside. Aroused males and open coupling may not. There's a cavern on one of the sims with large enclosed spaces, for those wanting to do XXX play in a 'public' setting. It has a swimming lake above it where, like the resort pool, no more than R-rated behavior is acceptable. What people do inside their homes or skyboxes is their own choice.

If the parcel the Caverns was on was to be rated XXX, we'd have people doing XXX behavior above ground, at the mountain lake, and saying it was an 'approved' behavior. If the rest of the sim was Mature, what about people doing stuff in their emclosed skyboxes and homes?

The simple fact is, aside from some XXX rated businesses, a lot of the XXX behavior in SL is something that happens only occasionally, and can't be confined to just a XXX zone.

Leave the ratings as they are, and just use some common courtesy. If you wanna make out, go get a room!

I would, however state that if Linden Labs ever hopes to open the grid to all ages, and to restrict on more of a parcel or sim basis by land ratings, then they will need to do a LOT of re-arranging of the grid, so the Mature and XXX spaces don't leave the PG and G spaces looking like a block of Swiss cheese that is mostly holes. And they will definitely need to come up with new technologies that make it IMPOSSIBLE to view, hear or affect actions in sims or parcels that you don't meet the rating requirements for, and to do something like the 'pocketspace' idea, so people can define skyboxes and bedrooms as impossible to look/listed into from outside the space.

As it stands, if LL wants to make part of the grid into a G-rated, Disney Theme Park friendly family place, they should do a seperate grid for that, or make it a seperate continent. The mature and XXX stuff was the accepted model for the building of the main grid, and is too entrenched to zone it off now to be more family friendly.

I am of two minds on this idea.

The first mind is: It would probably be the most annoying thing ever, because the Lindens can't seem to enforce the "No Mature on PG lands." As most of us know, policing their own rules is impossible and grows more so with each passing day. There aren't enough Lindens for the playerbase.

The second is: Everyone who worried about the underage, well, here is your solution. Let them wander the Mature and PG lands, but the XXX should be strictly verified only. This might hurt a few companies, but it might encourage more people to get verified. Also, as the XXX sims wouldn't be on the 'mainland,' you'd solve the problem of trying to separate sims.


My first mind is the more vocal and unhappy with this, though, so I'll go with it. I don't really wanna see this kind of separation in the game.

I'm disagreeing with your assessment, even though my land is PG. There isn't more demand for PG than Mature based on simple human nature. When friends pop in to visit me, I see them changing outfits to more modest clothing, moderating language, etc, even though I've never said a word about my preferences. People are even afraid to cuss in a PG sim. It's pretty silly to me.

That fact doesn't create more demand for PG land. However, I do share your need to be able to play in a PG environment because of family and coworkers around, therefore I have an prim (invsi on one side) covering the huge purple thonged advertisement (affectionately know as "cheeks" to me ) that is prevelant in most mainland PG sims.

Based on my experience (yes unscientific) with owning PG land, I would say that there is probably less than a quarter of the residents that really want or need PG land. Just a take a look at what land is available in PG sims.

My problem with the current classifications is that PG really isn't PG, so adding an XXX is going to do what? All it will do is blur the line between Mature and XXX like the line is blurred currently between PG and Mature. You will then have people arguing over whether someing is "really" mature or "really" is XXX.

If LL decided to enforce PG and Mature, then they would either have to segregate the areas so mature content is not viewable from PG sims or segregate the content so individual avatars could choose to not see content. I guess all the avatars would be dressed in Victorian dress or a box with arm and leg holes???

If LL doesn't want to enforce the classifications then they only need one (Adult or mature) and then you would have whatever/whenever such as the situation that the OP was complaining about.

Sorry to be so long...

--Ham

At this late date this would be impossible. People have already spent money on mature land with the purpose of adult behavior with no limits. This would create a situation that could not possibly be dealt with by LL, so its never gonna happen.

Rather then suggest a situation thats never gonna happen, might I suggest you ask for something at least possible like a new PG continent?

There is no reason to introduce anything different. An XXX sim rating is a bad idea for the exact same reasons that an .xxx TLD is a bad idea.

PG already exists to exclude intense language, expletives, nudity, sexual content, depictions of sex, violence, or anything "broadly offensive". That's throughout the sim, not just the publicly viewable areas of the sim.

If people want sims with enforcement of their notion of "Conventions" that "most of the civilised world" "recognises" - /above and beyond what PG provides for/, then feel free to use a Mature sim, force a teleport landing point, script a touch_start event in the bounding box around that point, hand out a notecard explaining what behaviours are expected and are prohibited inside that sim, and have fun enforcing!

Be /certain/ you use a Mature sim, however, because fascism can be considered to be "broadly offensive".

I'd be fine with having a PG continent as long as it didn't immedately mean that only verifieds could go to Mature.

Removing PG from the main might be a nightmare transition for some PG businesses because to use your words but rephrased..People have already spent money on [PG] land with the purpose of [commercial activity] with no limits [to support their tier]. Some businesses won't care that they are now in Mature land and would rather have their current location regardless of rating, but you can't make that assumption for everyone.

--Ham

I don't think fascism is the word? Fascism is nationalistic control and refers to political considerations....maybe I'm wrong on this...?

What you are attempting to be insufficiently cute about is the "right" of any land owner in SL. If you don't want [name your own hang-up here] then you have the right to do exactly what you suggest. Why would you care if someone did exactly that?

--Ham

Fascism is the view that the state trumps any rights of the individual, and is justified in doing so because of a struggle between races/nationalities/YouthVsElders, and that strength and power are legitimate in and of themselves and that war or a struggle is an end, in and of itself and the victory of that struggle is the supreme determinant of the worthiness of the contestants. It hooks this by appealing to people's sense of mysticism.

What many of the posters in this forum see is a struggle between "progressive values" and the "conventions that most of the civilised world recognises" - in other words, their /own/ social conventions - that their position is justified by appeal to their sense of mysticism, and that /only victory in this struggle/ will determine who is truly worthy - and that Linden Labs, as the "state", should take up and enforce their position;

This, despite the fact that codifying and adopting their position or proposition runs contrary to the first article of Linden Labs' community standards.

I am not being "cute", sufficiently or insufficiently. I am voicing a well-thought-out and highly informed critique of an inherently political reform that certain posters seek from Linden Labs, and laying out exactly why they are unjustified in seeking it in the manner that they are attempting, and how there is an existing technical solution for their goals that - instead of laying the problem at Linden Labs' feet to codify a solution to the detriment of many others - lays the solution to their own problem at their own feet and letting them undertake the struggle that they seem to yearn for, excepting that it will be a struggle to build and administer and persuade, rather than a struggle to subjugate and deprive and burden others.

How does enforcing another community standard (article 5) on your own land or asking LL to enforce the same, run contrary to the first article?

Sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult here...I must be missing something.

--Ham

You misunderstand me.

What some posters in this thread want, /specifically/, is a state-sponsored intolerance of certain behaviours. They want to have Linden Labs - in a global policy - define "PG" as it is now, re-define "Mature" as it is now /except for sex and sexuality/, and institute "XXX" - because /they are intolerant of people who do not share their aversion to sex and sexuality./ Inherent in their request is that Linden Labs become a police state administrator, intolerant of other people's freedoms.

I've seen posts in here where the poster describes Second Life as not being a "wild-west free for all" - except Mature areas /are/ free-for-alls and Linden Labs is not in the business of codifying nor enforcing nor hashing out exactly whose sexual mores trumps every one elses.

They're not going to open that door, because - like /any/ freedom - Freedom /of/ a thing also means freedom /from/ a thing. Sex, or the refuge from it.

It's not objective, like shooting and push-griefing (hey, I can turn off the "allow push" bit and stop a bunch of griefing!). It's highly /subjective/. There is no way for a script, engine, or automated system to recognise and enforce someone's arbitrary sexual mores. Sim/land owners have a wide variety of automated governing solutions available that reduce their land from "Anarchy" to "more-or-less habitable" , but as far as Linden Labs is concerned, handing over a "No Lesbians" (or whatever) bit isn't going to be one of them. There is no technical solution for it and even undertaking a possible one runs contrary to their stated social contract.

People are free to buy their own sim and set their own rules for behaviours in that sim and remove anyone who does not abide by those rules. They are not free to demand that Linden Labs join them in enforcing their own arbitrary rules. I really cannot care less if someone buys a sim or sims, and sets up an IslamoFascist state within it. I'll never visit, they can't stop me from leaving if I accidentally end up there, and they're not allowed to use their popular majority to demand that everyone else have their particular mores forced upon them by way of Linden Labs' policies.

Posts like this always make me jittery. I worry about anyone whose enjoyment of SL depends on /me/ having fewer choices in how I enjoy SL, so I don't mess it up for /him/.

Or, as the saying goes, if you don't like the show, change the channel.