Stealth change to account types?

Guess what. I don't have to back it up.

All I have to do is point out that opportunities have been passed out with no announcement of them beforehand.

They either put out a call for things so that everyone knows it is there to try out for or they don't announce things, and you either happen to know about them, or they happen to know about you, or else you don't get a chance at it.

I don't have to go through all the perks and opportunities and dig up every person who has gotten a special opportunity and show how they have gotten them. All I have to do is point out that the opportunity has NOT been made open to all.

They are now making more opportunities open to all. That's all that's required! They can still choose which resume or submission they like best. But this way, they have more to choose from, and somebody who hasn't happened to come to their personal attention in this ever-growing world gets an equal chance at the opportunities. On the merit of the work.

This is a good thing for all of us, and for the Lindens.

I could ask you to back it up: Back it up for me how opportunities handed out just to those they happen to be aware of is better? How COULD that be better?

How can anyone be against giving every resident a fair chance at any opportunity or perk they may be interested in?

coco

* waves at Katja *

Get off the psychoanalysis kick, Nolan.

Who's new? The next player who buys First Land with their second premium account, and mentions it, that's who! I don't want them jumped on like I was, just for playing the game.

The Lindens stated they prefer I don't buy First Land with my second premium account. Well, I'd prefer they only charged me $65 instead of $72 for that second premium account, but I don't notice them doing that, do I?

They are going to charge the same thing for the same account but not want you to use part of it? That's not right.

coco

I'd say if a player is on their second account, their not a "new player".

And I will get off my kick when you get off yours.

You know, the martyrdom kick.

You always blur the line between the 512m of tier included with a premium account, and getting a piece of land for $512L - they are not the same thing, and you know it. All premium accounts come with 512m of tier. First Land is NOT a feature of premium accounts, it is a separate land incentive program for first time users. STOP blurring the lines between them. You asked the Lindens what their position was, and voila, they told you, and now you come back with some flippant think like "Well I wish they charged me less, we don't get what we want?". Why did you even bother to ask for opinions, especially the Lindens, if the only opinion you care about is your own?

But Coco, that's not what you say all the time. Some times, it becomes "the people that LL know and love and who they give all these opportunities to" (i.e. the FIC). My point was that the people that have been here for years? The ones routinely accused of being FIC? Show me the proof that they are the only ones to be offered things, and then I might listen.

You're right, it probably is more fair to offer to all.

_And_ if you ever _just_ posted that, instead of also using the post as an opportunity to attack LL and their "favorites", then I probably would just say "hey good post and point Coco". But you're always either backhandedly or blatantly accusing LL of having favorites and of certain people in here and in SL of being said favorites, and of LL and them not wanting the whole atmosphere of you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, to go away. You see yourself as a reformer. I say, attempt the reform without having to accuse others of things.

I mean, how hard would it be to say it "I've noticed that there are design opportunities and build opportunities that I know nothing about. It'd be nice if Linden Labs could post that information in a way I could find it." See? No attacks veiled or otherwise on anyone.

But hey, that's just me. I've just noticed that people take ideas a lot more seriously and reflect on them more, if they don't feel like they're being attacked.

*waves back* heya!

Ah but as you see, when residents do get a fair chance at something, say for example, Lifetime accounts, those who come along after they were no longer available cry foul. No one can have a perk unless that perk is offered forever, which is hardly realistic. No company could operate that way - any incentive they would offer would have to apply forever, and also be applied retroactively to everyone they've ever had as customers.

Did you ask youself that when you took first land from a new resident and denied them a fair oppurtunity and perk? I mean lets sweep around our own front door, before we sweep around others.


Dude, you don't have a leg to stand on with these topics anymore. You have proven yourself to be one of the biggest frauds to hit these forums yet you keep on with your attention mongering and dumbass posts.

Has anyone suggested to LL that the rules be changed when it comes to accounts and first land? If not I think it should be done.

Their view is "we don't want ppl to do it, but we won't stop them" Keep in mind they don't advertize the fact that it shouldn't be done.

There have been a lot of loopholes in sl and a lot of ppl have gotten away with a lot of things. Only because LL didn't put it in writing.

Just an idea to solve this.

Night folks

Mar

Amen!!

I remember how hard it was to get first land back when I started. I didn't appreciate the people multi-buying for their own purposes.

If Ferran and I had been here for Lifetime membership I hope we would have have made the gamble, but $225 (x 2) is a lot of cash to lay out on a virtual product that could tank at anytime. In the long run it might have not been the best decision since we own an island sim and that's billed seperately anyway.

They can't because they would have to limit it to one per IP, or credit card, or both. This would screw over people who would like their significant other, siblings, etc., to be able to take advantage of first land.

This is why it is a case of, "Because I can do it, should I do it?" - personal ethics.

Anyway, whaddya know? Another thread diverted to this damned issue.

If people could just ACCEPT the spirit of something stated by SL, and then police themselves accordingly, we wouldn't be here every other day arguing about it.

But alas, some people have to demand everything be spelled out to the very last detail for them before they will concede - and even then, they may just try and insinuate that others are stringing together 4096 accts as some sort of justification for going against the spirit of the program. That's called a logical fallacy, but oh well, I see no end in sight to be honest.

Yes, Nolan, I notice you put a high premium on words, and your definition of them.

For instance, we have been around and about for a couple of days now on the Land and Economy forum, where you are insisting that I didn't buy my land on Azure Islands from Nexus Nash, and that I am just renting it.

coco

I'm not blurring any line. I never said the free tier on 512 and the ability to buy First Land 512 were the same thing. I said they were both offered as part of a premium account.

You buy a new premium account. You get: $500 a week stipend. No tier on your first 512 property. The ABILITY to buy First Land as your first land you buy. You pay at least $72 for that account. Which ain't chicken feed in many households.

You (or your family or husband) buys another account. (Or you and your husband buy five accounts.) You get: $500 a week stipend, free tier on 512, the ability to own land, and the ability to buy First Land on each of those accounts. Like that person who bought 5 accounts with his wife and the Linden told them it was perfectly fine to get First Land with all of them. You just DO. It comes WITH it, and there's nothing to stop you from using it.

I'm hardly being flippant when I say I would prefer they charge me less. If they are going to get the full amount from me for each new account, then I want and expect the full value of that account.

If they want me to refrain from First Land (which has a greater value in terms of choice of land than it does in terms of expense, in my opinion), then they should charge me correspondingly less, since they are not actually giving me (or my husband, family, or whoever) the whole actual account.

Except that they ARE. There is nothing stopping anyone from buying First Land with their new, Premium Account, whether it is them using it, their husband, or the family dog. Nor is there any logical or ethical reason why they shouldn't. And bunches of people get First Land with their second account, I'm sure, just like I did, without having any idea it was supposed to be wrong.

This sort of gentleman's agreement thing - which people don't necessarily even KNOW about - just won't fly. First Land IS a feature of premium accounts, in that it is a part of them - you buy your account; it comes with it. It just DOES.

For Robin and others to say, well, we don't really intend for you to use it, and we'd rather you didn't, and it wasn't the intention of the program when it first began, well, fine. But that's different from selling a package of something and then preventing (or in this case, trying to dissuade it) some people from accessing a part of the package that COST THE SAME AMOUNT. I don't even think it is legal.

coco

No.

At the TIME when the promotion is being offered (in this case, the Lifetime account), all residents ARE made aware of and offered this opportunity. Therefore, that is kosher.

Nor did I ever argue anything different.

coco

Well, you're definitely one of the most unpleasant ones.

coco

Good luck finding anything about First Land listed in conjunction with the features of a Premium Account. You won't, because the two are not tied together. My God, the lengths you are going to here are ridiculous, truly. When you get a premium account, you are getting 512m of tier and 500L a week. That is the only thing included with a premium account, it is the only thing listed there. First land is akin to the first account for free promotion - it is a one time thing intended for new players. There are ways around both, it doesn't make it right. To allow a husband and wife to both enjoy first land, they purposely do not prevent it by blocking it for other accounts on the same card. Just because they don't prevent it doesn't mean it is right to take advantage of it. You are one person, Cocoanut, not two, regardless of how many accounts you buy.

You are getting what you paid for on each account - the tier and the L$ - nothing else was promised, and nothing else is included.

As I said, I have no idea why you asked for clarification, and then when given it, you just don't like the answer.

Well, I'm BEGINNING to see your point of view, Cristiano. And consequently, I think I can begin to sort of see why you hold to it so passionately.

I never "asked for clarification." I was accused by people on another thread, where I mentioned this second account and first Land with it as why I was posting on the other name, and you jumped on my case along with some others, which startled the heck out of me.

What I did was take the discussion out of that thread, which had nothing to do with it, and present it in general to discuss. That is NOT asking for clarification. That is presenting my point of view for discussion.

Someone ELSE went to the hotline and asked for "clarification."

You are right, though, that I didn't like the answer that other person was given. Still don't.

coco

P.S. I have decided that there is nobody on this game more stubborn than Nolan, Cristiano, and Cocoanut!

I didn't mean to imply that having the 4096 account was the reason why people would be successful, nor that it could make the difference between success and failure, and I apologise to anyone who thought I did mean that and was insulted.

But at the same time, you remember that you "paid and clawed and worked our way to subsistence before these folks had ever rezzed in". Well, all the folks who are rezzing in now want to do the same thing, except for them it involves even more "paying, clawing, and working" because they have to compete with the established people, and the opportunities those people took are gone now. That's a natural process, so there can't be any blame for that, but it kinda smarts to also find out that those people who started earlier also benefited from incentives when there's no equivalent available now. (What is there now? DI, which goes to the established people and helps them become even more established.) In the real world, governments (or at least the UK government) and banks are subsidising startups for exactly this reason.

I'm not so sure about the whole "Linden want everyone to buy L$" line, though. I'm sure they make more on tier and islands than they do on Lindex transactions, given that they can't just magic up L$ for Lindex. You could cynically argue that they have enough tier sales now to keep going, believe they can do nothing to stop the bar rising out of sight for newbies, and so have just reorganised to take money wherever they can - but that's, well, cynical.

Um..

a) since when have barriers to entry been considered a good thing?
b) how are strong barriers to entry in line with marketing SL as a business platform?

I am currently paying and clawing and working my way into having an entertaining time and talking with my friends? Are we playing the same game?

I know that LL has been using the "play SL, make money" inducement for a while. Then again, so do lotteries and casinos. If your lament is that it is hard to make an income commensurate with the RL skills and time that one need invest, then you simply have unrealistic expectations of SL; despite the PR, not even LL is making a mint off of this.

I'm genuinely sorry that your expectations were violated and hope that you can reconcile them with the reality. I also know that you did not form these expectations out of thin air, but that doesn't make them any more correct. I hope that helps some.

But that's just the thing. I'm not trying to make real money in SL, and I didn't really expect to.

What I'm trying to do is to get to the stage where myself and my friends can actually make use of the graphical environment of SL for socialisation instead of having to constantly fall back to, for instance, taking actions as text because the animations required are too expensive, or having to do role-plays is the wrong setting with the wrong graphics because we can't afford the props or outfits to look like the characters or setting properly. I came here as a result of an invite from a friend from a text-based talker and the graphical environment is full of potential, and I just want to be able to access it.

I know that some people aren't going to empathise with this because they're artists and just create this stuff for themselves. I've had a go at this but can't get good results, just because I've never been very good at art or anything like that. (And because whenever I try to lift my foot in Poser, Poser's brilliant IK system decides I obviously actually want to twist my hip around by 720 degrees in the process.) Indeed, if I complain about feeling limited to anyone, what usually results is some discussion about stuff they've made and/or "limits of imagination" which basically comes down to "[I'm not disagreeing that you're limited, but] hey look, I'm not." (which resulted in me venting at a few nice people totally unnecessarily when I first got here, and the thread in which I regretted doing it)

So I don't need to be making Linden to sell for US$, I just need enough to be able to participate more and make more use of the aspects that make SL unique. The original poster spoke of "clawing his way to subsistence" and that's what I'm referring to. I want to be able to subsist in SL, and to have access to the things that make SL SL, rather than just using it as a text-based talker but then watching while others get to use the unique features.

Thanks for the well explained reply, Yumi. A few suggestions to get to your goals:

1. patience - almost all of the L$ I have come from stipend which does pile up after a while (also, stipend was capped at L$3k for maybe the first year)
   
2. yadni's junkyard - cornicopia of freebies, provided you are willing to dig you can find almost anything
   
3. make friends - as the marginal cost of production in SL is zero, I've been given more stuff than I could ever use
   

I don't even have poser nor could I likely drive it if I did. I can also tell you that I have no more or less fun now than I did prior to skins, particles, animations, poses, etc. The fun is in the interaction, not the "stuff". This sounds almost infantile, but my crowd still finds it amusing to push AFK friends into the water. vMaterial goods are as useful in generating happiness in SL as they are in RL (that is, less so than you would want it to be).