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nimrod Yaffle

Cavemen are people too...

Join date: 15 Nov 2004

Posts: 3,146

08-21-2006 02:55

From: Shirley Marquez

Easily. A PowerPoint presentation is just too static to give any real taste of what Second Life is about. Machinima presentations (which LL has made) or live demonstrations of the world are much more effective ways of showing what is unique about SL. Besides, PowerPoint is evil.

I saw the video of the presentation they did to Google. I think it was MUCH better because they were actually in-world doing things. If it would have been a slide show, I think peoplee might have gotten bored. People like shiny moving things, not static ones.

_____________________

"People can cry much easier than they can change."
-James Baldwin

Gwyneth Llewelyn

Winking Loudmouth

Join date: 31 Jul 2004

Posts: 1,336

08-21-2006 08:47

From: nimrod Yaffle

I saw the video of the presentation they did to Google. I think it was MUCH better because they were actually in-world doing things. If it would have been a slide show, I think peoplee might have gotten bored. People like shiny moving things, not static ones.

No question about it

I just meant it as an example, nimrod. Perhaps I should have written "a presentation" instead of "a PowerPoint presentation". It's totally irrelevant if it's a movie, a 3D animation, a PDF, a PowerPoint, a page with itemised topics, a Podcast, or — why not? — a simple scanned paper with some scribblings on it.

The point I was making is that there wasn't a presentation available for showing Second Life as a platform for the corporate market... if you wish for one, you'll have to do it on your own, risking to be announcing things that Linden Lab does not intend to do at all...

_____________________

Clubside Granville

Registered Bonehead

Join date: 13 Apr 2006

Posts: 478

08-22-2006 04:22

From: Gwyneth Llewelyn

What changed? Well, on an average day sitting at the Help Island for a few hours, I might get in touch with perhaps a hundred or so new users. 99 of those will have joined because they were attracted to the flashy graphics. Their first two questions are always: "How do I get money?" and "What do I do next?" All of them are assuming that Second Life is a mission-based MMORPG they've just came across, and they expect the same things to be valid in SL as well. If we can extrapolate from the current statistics, about half of the users drop off SL immediately and go back to playing WoW; the rest understands that this is some sort of social 3D MUD and give it a try. But they certainly did not get a single hint from the web side to understand that; they had to figure it out by themselves.

Gwyneth,

I'm so far behind catching up on some of your points I'm sure most people are sick of seeing this thread bumped... Would you mind if I continued it over at my Second Life HomePage Foums?

Just addressing this one paragraph out of turn, however, the questions you mentioned were brought up at the SLCC Mainland talk that was broadcasted, and by many others. I usually got a different, even broader question in my sandbox:

"What can you do here?"

I would try to start the answer with the few activities that might "arouse" the interest of a typical gamer, such as clubbing, a few games, then go on to the shopping and building... The problem was they often "poofed" long before you could even tell them enough options to keep them interested. Or maybe I they had some smell card installed and they could tell I needed a shower. Six of one, half dozen of the other...

I will be bringing this next figure up in another thread I will be posting today, but it fits in with your observations about the MMOG charts:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6156122.html

From: GameSpot News

Saints Row demo sets record

Single-player demo for THQ's gangland shooter downloaded 350,000 times in its first week.

Imagine that, more people downloaded and played a 900MB demo than logged into Second Life in the last 60 days. And this doesn't count the people who obtained the demo from the Official Xbox Magazine, or bought the pre-order demo disc from Best Buy or other places (like I did). And this was on the Xbox 360, with a much smaller market share than the original Xbox, which actively has hundreds of thousands of users a day. And when I was on I spent a lot of time chatting with friends about the demo (the full game will support multi-player action) while in lobbies or playing regualr games.

You can have all the CBS News puff-pieces in the world and still not penetrate the marketplace.

Anyway, before the rants start about apples and oranges, back to my original question... would you mind if I continued replying to some of your earlier points over on the other forums? I enjoy this conversation very much and hope others interested will join as well, but I fear the "necroposting" images already...

_____________________

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Second Life Handbook - slhandbook.com

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Clubside Granville

Registered Bonehead

Join date: 13 Apr 2006

Posts: 478

08-23-2006 12:11

I've had a few requests about this thread continuing elsewhere as I posted last time, so I apologize for a final bump here.

I will try to cross-post as much as I can for those of you "late to the party", but have copied my first two posts so far...

http://forums.slhomepage.com/showthread.php?t=39

_____________________

Second Life Home Page Forums - slhomepage.com

Second Life Handbook - slhandbook.com

Second Life Mainland - slmainland.com

Aliasi Stonebender

Return of Catbread

Join date: 30 Jan 2005

Posts: 1,858

08-23-2006 12:34

From: Clubside Granville

Imagine that, more people downloaded and played a 900MB demo than logged into Second Life in the last 60 days. And this doesn't count the people who obtained the demo from the Official Xbox Magazine, or bought the pre-order demo disc from Best Buy or other places (like I did). And this was on the Xbox 360, with a much smaller market share than the original Xbox, which actively has hundreds of thousands of users a day. And when I was on I spent a lot of time chatting with friends about the demo (the full game will support multi-player action) while in lobbies or playing regualr games.

You can have all the CBS News puff-pieces in the world and still not penetrate the marketplace.

Anyway, before the rants start about apples and oranges, back to my original question...

Acknowledging that you've made a faulty comparison doesn't really validate the comparison. You are comparing apples and 1988 Ford Mustangs.

The primary "market" for SL is still the PC gaming market. With the exception of the simpler games (every grandmother with a computer I've known seems to have a copy of one of the mah-jong games out there...) the PC Games market is tiny compared to a console. Second Life is an oddball at that, not really a game, but requiring comparable hardware. So it's best to look around at the PC market - where SL is still smallish, but has definitely penetrated the marketplace better than most products not sold in a box at the EB.

It may be rather beside your point, but I figured it should be said.

_____________________

Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?”
Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff

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nimrod Yaffle Cavemen are people too... Join date: 15 Nov 2004 Posts: 3,146	08-21-2006 02:55 From: Shirley Marquez Easily. A PowerPoint presentation is just too static to give any real taste of what Second Life is about. Machinima presentations (which LL has made) or live demonstrations of the world are much more effective ways of showing what is unique about SL. Besides, PowerPoint is evil. I saw the video of the presentation they did to Google. I think it was MUCH better because they were actually in-world doing things. If it would have been a slide show, I think peoplee might have gotten bored. People like shiny moving things, not static ones. _____________________ "People can cry much easier than they can change." -James Baldwin
Gwyneth Llewelyn Winking Loudmouth Join date: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 1,336	08-21-2006 08:47 From: nimrod Yaffle I saw the video of the presentation they did to Google. I think it was MUCH better because they were actually in-world doing things. If it would have been a slide show, I think peoplee might have gotten bored. People like shiny moving things, not static ones. No question about it I just meant it as an example, nimrod. Perhaps I should have written "a presentation" instead of "a PowerPoint presentation". It's totally irrelevant if it's a movie, a 3D animation, a PDF, a PowerPoint, a page with itemised topics, a Podcast, or — why not? — a simple scanned paper with some scribblings on it. The point I was making is that there wasn't a presentation available for showing Second Life as a platform for the corporate market... if you wish for one, you'll have to do it on your own, risking to be announcing things that Linden Lab does not intend to do at all... _____________________
Clubside Granville Registered Bonehead Join date: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 478	08-22-2006 04:22 From: Gwyneth Llewelyn What changed? Well, on an average day sitting at the Help Island for a few hours, I might get in touch with perhaps a hundred or so new users. 99 of those will have joined because they were attracted to the flashy graphics. Their first two questions are always: "How do I get money?" and "What do I do next?" All of them are assuming that Second Life is a mission-based MMORPG they've just came across, and they expect the same things to be valid in SL as well. If we can extrapolate from the current statistics, about half of the users drop off SL immediately and go back to playing WoW; the rest understands that this is some sort of social 3D MUD and give it a try. But they certainly did not get a single hint from the web side to understand that; they had to figure it out by themselves. Gwyneth, I'm so far behind catching up on some of your points I'm sure most people are sick of seeing this thread bumped... Would you mind if I continued it over at my Second Life HomePage Foums? Just addressing this one paragraph out of turn, however, the questions you mentioned were brought up at the SLCC Mainland talk that was broadcasted, and by many others. I usually got a different, even broader question in my sandbox: "What can you do here?" I would try to start the answer with the few activities that might "arouse" the interest of a typical gamer, such as clubbing, a few games, then go on to the shopping and building... The problem was they often "poofed" long before you could even tell them enough options to keep them interested. Or maybe I they had some smell card installed and they could tell I needed a shower. Six of one, half dozen of the other... I will be bringing this next figure up in another thread I will be posting today, but it fits in with your observations about the MMOG charts: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6156122.html From: GameSpot News Saints Row demo sets record Single-player demo for THQ's gangland shooter downloaded 350,000 times in its first week. Imagine that, more people downloaded and played a 900MB demo than logged into Second Life in the last 60 days. And this doesn't count the people who obtained the demo from the Official Xbox Magazine, or bought the pre-order demo disc from Best Buy or other places (like I did). And this was on the Xbox 360, with a much smaller market share than the original Xbox, which actively has hundreds of thousands of users a day. And when I was on I spent a lot of time chatting with friends about the demo (the full game will support multi-player action) while in lobbies or playing regualr games. You can have all the CBS News puff-pieces in the world and still not penetrate the marketplace. Anyway, before the rants start about apples and oranges, back to my original question... would you mind if I continued replying to some of your earlier points over on the other forums? I enjoy this conversation very much and hope others interested will join as well, but I fear the "necroposting" images already... _____________________ Second Life Home Page Forums - slhomepage.com Second Life Handbook - slhandbook.com Second Life Mainland - slmainland.com
Clubside Granville Registered Bonehead Join date: 13 Apr 2006 Posts: 478	08-23-2006 12:11 I've had a few requests about this thread continuing elsewhere as I posted last time, so I apologize for a final bump here. I will try to cross-post as much as I can for those of you "late to the party", but have copied my first two posts so far... http://forums.slhomepage.com/showthread.php?t=39 _____________________ Second Life Home Page Forums - slhomepage.com Second Life Handbook - slhandbook.com Second Life Mainland - slmainland.com
Aliasi Stonebender Return of Catbread Join date: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 1,858	08-23-2006 12:34 From: Clubside Granville Imagine that, more people downloaded and played a 900MB demo than logged into Second Life in the last 60 days. And this doesn't count the people who obtained the demo from the Official Xbox Magazine, or bought the pre-order demo disc from Best Buy or other places (like I did). And this was on the Xbox 360, with a much smaller market share than the original Xbox, which actively has hundreds of thousands of users a day. And when I was on I spent a lot of time chatting with friends about the demo (the full game will support multi-player action) while in lobbies or playing regualr games. You can have all the CBS News puff-pieces in the world and still not penetrate the marketplace. Anyway, before the rants start about apples and oranges, back to my original question... Acknowledging that you've made a faulty comparison doesn't really validate the comparison. You are comparing apples and 1988 Ford Mustangs. The primary "market" for SL is still the PC gaming market. With the exception of the simpler games (every grandmother with a computer I've known seems to have a copy of one of the mah-jong games out there...) the PC Games market is tiny compared to a console. Second Life is an oddball at that, not really a game, but requiring comparable hardware. So it's best to look around at the PC market - where SL is still smallish, but has definitely penetrated the marketplace better than most products not sold in a box at the EB. It may be rather beside your point, but I figured it should be said. _____________________ Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?” Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff

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