- Expose ppls alts.
- Imagine if a certain ppl got their hands on some reverse engineering gurus.
- Steal scripts, objects, etc
- Claim your scripts and objects were their original idea and claim they have never seen you in their whole entire 2nd life
- It will eventually spin out of control just like everything else does in here (Lindex, Land Store, Sex Balls)
- It will open the door to more frivolous lawsuit threats when more exploits are discovered, used, and applied.
- Delete scripts objects from the system
- Open the door for more (unintentional) grid attacks/crashes and interrupted game time whilst they "figure out" the system.
- Provide LL with more distractions to take away from fixing bugs and keeping all us little peeps happy
- Provide LL hopeful competitors with information that they may be able to use to build their own competing product/service! (Don't you people watch the apprentice?!!!!) Stop this now!
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10 Reasons to Disallow Reverse Engineering of Second Life Protocol |
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Over Sleeper
I Dream in LSL
Join date: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 141
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05-10-2006 21:16
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Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
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05-10-2006 21:25
If you dream in LSL, then I assume you are a technical person who knows what a server-centric paradigm is, and how SL has one, and how nobody can do a damn thing to steal or delete another person's objects.
SL is a viewer. It streams shit, just like streaming a video. Since when have you been able to delete a video from someone else's website? Everything you "do" in SL happens on the server. You don't actually do anything, you just send requests and SL will only do what you ask IF it can. So basically what I'm saying is you're on mad crack dude  _____________________
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Over Sleeper
I Dream in LSL
Join date: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 141
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05-10-2006 21:27
If you dream in LSL, then I assume you are a technical person who knows what a server-centric paradigm is, and how SL has one, and how nobody can do a damn thing to steal or delete another person's objects. SL is a viewer. It streams shit, just like streaming a video. Since when have you been able to delete a video from someone else's website? Everything you "do" in SL happens on the server. You don't actually do anything, you just send requests and SL will only do what you ask IF it can. So basically what I'm saying is you're on mad crack dude Personal attacks are strictly forbidden in this thread. I am afraid I am going to have to report you. Besides, any good hacker will know how to "exploit" the protocol, possibly without LL knowledge. Once ppl start reverse engineering, you think LL is going to sit there and montor them? NO! Just like the copyright issuses and griefer issues...file a Reverse Engineering Abuse Report! That's what they'll tell you. You'll get an email in about 48 hours confiring your report. |
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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05-10-2006 21:32
God save us from uppity newbs.
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Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags? |
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Over Sleeper
I Dream in LSL
Join date: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 141
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05-10-2006 21:33
Yes, please do. Especially those who wish to comprimise our personal space by REVERSE ENGINEERING the Second Life Protocol.
Your support in this matter is greatly appreciated. |
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Steve Steed
Premium account
Join date: 2 Sep 2004
Posts: 420
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05-10-2006 21:35
Personal attacks are strictly forbidden in this thread. I am afraid I am going to have to report you. Besides, any good hacker will know how to "exploit" the protocol, possibly without LL knowledge. Once ppl start reverse engineering, you think LL is going to sit there and montor them? NO! Just like the copyright issuses and griefer issues...file a Reverse Engineering Abuse Report! That's what they'll tell you. You'll get an email in about 48 hours confiring your report. LOL!!  _____________________
Second Life is based on the values of tolerance and free expression. Residents are asked to adhere to community standards that are based on the golden rule, but beyond those standards, there are few to no restrictions.
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AJ DaSilva
woz ere
Join date: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,993
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05-10-2006 21:35
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AJ DaSilva
woz ere
Join date: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,993
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05-10-2006 21:37
God save us from uppity newbs.  _____________________
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Over Sleeper
I Dream in LSL
Join date: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 141
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05-10-2006 21:38
Thank you AJ for your support in this matter. Although you seemed resistant I see a bright future ahead for you in the Reverse Engineering Abure Report Department. With that attitude, they may make you a Linden real soon.
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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05-10-2006 21:40
Methinks may be an alt. Some things can't be faked, AJ. _____________________
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags? |
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AJ DaSilva
woz ere
Join date: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,993
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05-10-2006 21:41
Thank you AJ for your support in this matter. Although you seemed resistant I see a bright future ahead for you in the Reverse Engineering Abure Report Department. With that attitude, they may make you a Linden real soon. _____________________
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Adam Zaius
Deus
Join date: 9 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,483
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05-10-2006 21:44
SL is a completely server-centric platform. None of this is possible since the clients themselves are thin clients, barely anything runs locally, everything runs on the servers themselves.
Your inventory? Server-side. Permissions? Server-side, movement, objects, vehicles, money, animations, sounds, etc? All serverside. The only thing the client does is send your keyboard inputs to the server, and handle rendering of what's sent back. If reverse engineering the protocol publically is going to expose weaknesses in the system, then that is a good thing - because those weaknesses will be fixed. If the protocol is reverse engineered in private, then those weaknesses are going to be unexposed, and prime for the exploiting. _____________________
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AJ DaSilva
woz ere
Join date: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,993
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05-10-2006 21:46
Some things can't be faked, AJ. _____________________
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Over Sleeper
I Dream in LSL
Join date: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 141
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05-10-2006 21:51
SL is a completely server-centric platform. None of this is possible since the clients themselves are thin clients, barely anything runs locally, everything runs on the servers themselves. Your inventory? Server-side. Permissions? Server-side, movement, objects, vehicles, money, animations, sounds, etc? All serverside. The only thing the client does is send your keyboard inputs to the server, and handle rendering of what's sent back. If reverse engineering the protocol publically is going to expose weaknesses in the system, then that is a good thing - because those weaknesses will be fixed. If the protocol is reverse engineered in private, then those weaknesses are going to be unexposed, and prime for the exploiting. I hope you aren't imagining that this will be done in 'public'! if any hacker could look into some code and see who's alts were whos and who had a paid account and who owned what land and who was logged and where they were, ...or whatever the case may be, are you honestly saying that you would make it public that you were able to see it? What would be the point? Is LL PAYING someone to do this for them? No If they wanted to find security holes in there system, they would not have banned that Auction Exploit guy. They would have thanked him kindly for exposing the fault in their system and fixed it...and moved on! I really don't think that they want us peasants poking around in their castle for holes and weaknesses in the fort. I say hacker above with the firm belief that no one is 100% trustworthy in this case. Even if LL charged them a fee of 10,000 USD we have no way of knowing their true intentions. LL needs to trust this to inhouse professionals who can be held accountable for their actions. |
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Over Sleeper
I Dream in LSL
Join date: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 141
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05-10-2006 21:52
I dunno, when you get a forum notification that person A posted to a thread with the same attitude as person B, who's already posted in that thread, with a short list of things and then says they're starting a new thread about it... Then you get to the thread and the post's gone and a thread, starting with similar points, has been started by person B... You gotta wonder. You ever heard of copy and paste? Guess I should come up with my own quotes then next time...not there anymore. |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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05-10-2006 21:53
Thank you AJ for your support in this matter. Although you seemed resistant I see a bright future ahead for you in the Reverse Engineering Abure Report Department. With that attitude, they may make you a Linden real soon. Perverse Engineering is a fundamental part of Second Life, isn't it? _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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Adam Zaius
Deus
Join date: 9 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,483
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05-10-2006 21:53
I hope you aren't imagining that this will be done in 'public'! if any hacker could look into some code and see who's alts were whos and who had a paid account and who owned what land and who was logged and where they were, ...or whatever the case may be, are you honestly saying that you would make it public that you were able to see it? What would be the point? Is LL PAYING someone to do this for them? No If they wanted to find security holes in there system, they would not have banned that Auction Exploit guy. They would have thanked him kindly for exposing the fault in their system and fixed it...and moved on! I really don't think that they want us peasants poking around in their castle for holes and weaknesses in the fort. I say hacker above with the firm belief that no one is 100% trustworthy in this case. Even if LL charged them a fee of 10,000 USD we have no way of knowing their true intentions. LL needs to trust this to inhouse professionals who can be held accountable for their actions. How can they do any of that, if the client isnt being sent that information in the first place? _____________________
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Over Sleeper
I Dream in LSL
Join date: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 141
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05-10-2006 21:56
How can they do any of that, if the client isnt being sent that information in the first place? I guess we will find out if LL allows this circus to move forward. |
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Adam Zaius
Deus
Join date: 9 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,483
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05-10-2006 21:59
I would like to take this discussion away from our Terms of Service and the question of legality of reverse engineering. In an effort to provide an increasingly open-ended user experience, we generally welcome inspection of the information we exchange through the service. We also philosophically believe that creating more connectivity points engenders the culture we hope develops throughout the community -- a culture of creativity and innovation that provides a better place for everyone to play and work. We will not pursue people who are reverse engineering the protocol who are looking to integrate their systems and processes with ours as long as those goals are not to the detriment of Linden Lab and the community at large. Using information gathered to exploit the system, exploit residents, violate resident privacy or property, or generate disproportionate load will be pursued and will be curtailed in a manner we see fit. /54/af/105371/2.html#post1032267 _____________________
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Frans Charming
You only need one Frans
Join date: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,847
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05-10-2006 22:00
Man, this thread is fun to follow! Please carry on.
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AJ DaSilva
woz ere
Join date: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,993
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05-10-2006 22:02
Man, this thread is fun to follow! Please carry on.  _____________________
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Over Sleeper
I Dream in LSL
Join date: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 141
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05-10-2006 22:04
Totally. If I knew this was gonna happen I wouldn't have gotten involved. I'm far too busy atm to be wasting my time on something like this, but it's such a fun distraction. Please. Elaborate. |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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05-10-2006 22:05
Why make the folks working on deciphering the protocol sweat it out, if they aren't opposed to people knowing it?
Why not just provide a complete description of the protocol and save them the effort? _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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AJ DaSilva
woz ere
Join date: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,993
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05-10-2006 22:05
Please. Elaborate. _____________________
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Frans Charming
You only need one Frans
Join date: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,847
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05-10-2006 22:06
Why not just provide a complete description of the protocol and save them the effort? That's quite a hopefull thought Suezanne, you think they have one? _____________________
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