Planning Meeting Log - 20.00 SLT 11 March 2007

PART ONE

[20:01] Wet Ikon Anim Override One.5 (Amped): 3234 bytes free
[20:02] You decline The Finish Line from A group member named Ananda Sandgrain.
[20:03] Kanker Greenacre: hehe
[20:03] Kanker Greenacre: megaprims ftw
[20:04] You: ...is that what was blocking me?..
[20:04] Arrekusu Muromachi: Heya Sensei.
[20:04] Reitsuki Kojima: Yeah
[20:04] Ananda Sandgrain: hi Myrrh!
[20:04] You: ...hola, all!..
[20:04] Brookston Holiday is Offline
[20:04] Myrrh Massiel hardly recognised the place!
[20:04] Salazar Jack waves
[20:04] Arrekusu Muromachi: I've noticed a slight flaw ith the megaprim, it disappears if you're camera's facing a certainw ay.
[20:04] Ananda Sandgrain: we've been experimenting with some big prims
[20:04] Brookston Holiday is Online
[20:04] Arrekusu Muromachi: rez chair
[20:04] Ananda Sandgrain: It does tend to mess with the camera
[20:05] Myrrh Massiel figured that maybe something just hadn't ressed up yet.
[20:05] Nber Medici is Offline
[20:05] Ananda Sandgrain: well, should we do an announce to the Seirengyu?
[20:05] You: ...surely...
[20:05] Myrrh Massiel sends.
[20:06] Ananda Sandgrain: ok :)
[20:06] Arrekusu Muromachi: derez chair
[20:06] Brookston Holiday is Offline
[20:06] Arrekusu Muromachi: rez flying chair
[20:06] Arrekusu Muromachi: O.x
[20:06] Arrekusu Muromachi: I forgot I took that out.
[20:06] Arrekusu Muromachi: rez chair
[20:06] Ananda Sandgrain: hehe, maybe some new furniture should be on the list
[20:06] You: ...this is interestingly harsh music...
[20:07] Reitsuki Kojima: actually, wait a minute
[20:07] Arrekusu Muromachi: I don't hear anyth---D'OH!
[20:07] You: ...i like your hair, ananda...
[20:07] Reitsuki Kojima: Have a seat. More will spawn
[20:07] Ananda Sandgrain: ty Myrrh :)
[20:07] You: ...alex is our empress...
[20:08] Arrekusu Muromachi: I'm not one to show royal blood. I'm just the janitor. c.c
[20:08] Myrrh Massiel hehs.
[20:08] Reitsuki Kojima: then take a seat with the rest of us commoners ;)
[20:08] You: ...no music over here, though...
[20:09] Ananda Sandgrain: :) we got a crowd after all.
[20:09] Salazar Jack begins singing the blues..
[20:09] Arrekusu Muromachi: Yep.
[20:09] You: ...yippee!..
[20:10] You: ...so - huns, salazar, rick - have you had a chance to read the transcript from last week, do you have a general idea of what we're doing?..
[20:10] Huns Valen: nope
[20:10] Salazar Jack: Ananda gave it to me when I got here today.
[20:10] Ananda Sandgrain: well, to bring folks up to speed, last week we headed in the direction of a Classic Aviation era theme with Asian influence
[20:10] Salazar Jack: I was going to go through it later.
[20:11] You: ...kind of golden-age-of-airships-meets-turn-of-the-century-singapore...
[20:12] Ananda Sandgrain: everyone seemed to agree that the main tower structure, and a tether, should remain
[20:12] You: ...and i'll use a different asian colonial port each time i describe it... ;)
[20:12] Flapjack Spatula is Offline
[20:12] Salazar Jack: Are there some referenves you can give us that would help in our research of such a style?
[20:12] Kanker Greenacre: we're just talking about a general guiding theme anyway
[20:12] Ananda Sandgrain: and pretty much everything else needs rebuilding or texture updates
[20:12] Salazar Jack: I like that. Main tower staying.
[20:12] You: ...sort of along the lines of miyazaki, but more vintage than futuristic...
[20:13] Salazar Jack: Thanks.
[20:13] Ananda Sandgrain: yes, Miyazaki is my inspiration :)
[20:13] Arrekusu Muromachi: Only problemw ith Miyazaki is that he has a European influence in most of his work. Not asian.
[20:13] Salazar Jack: I'm not familiar with that yet, but will look it up.
[20:13] You: ...all the weekly transcripts will be posted to both the kazenojin forum on secondlife.com and the kazenojin seiringu forum on slsailing.org...
[20:14] Ananda Sandgrain: Just watched Spirited Away again, and the bathhouse in it has a lot of good ideas for architecture
[20:14] Salazar Jack nods
[20:14] You: ...regarding the tower, we're redesigning everything but the superstructure, and replacing all the upper levels outright...
[20:14] Bino Arbuckle is Online
[20:15] You: ...last week reisuki suggested replacing the geosynch tether with high-altitude balloon ballast instead...
[20:15] Arrekusu Muromachi: There were a few that were Japanese influced and I'd say that The Spiriting away of Chihiro...err...Sprited Away would be the better bet. The bathhouse looked to be in the correct era.
[20:15] Kanker Greenacre: let's not be dogmatic
[20:15] Kanker Greenacre: if it's cool, and consistent, then it's okay with me
[20:15] Reitsuki Kojima: Yeah
[20:15] Reitsuki Kojima: I dont wanna be copying spirited away or anything
[20:16] Ananda Sandgrain: yah, inevitably if we've got aircraft, Euro and American influence is there too.
[20:16] Reitsuki Kojima: Some other good ideas for references would be Crimson Skies, Sky Captain and the World of Tommorow, etc
[20:16] You: ...yes, i think we're just looking at a generally consistent sense of vision, but something of our own, not aping an established franchise outright...
[20:16] Ananda Sandgrain: yes
[20:16] Salazar Jack nods
[20:16] Arrekusu Muromachi: Art Deco with the Asian touch.
[20:16] Salazar Jack: Those I'm more familiar with.
[20:17] Ananda Sandgrain: in general, try to keep things early era, without drifting into sci-fi
[20:17] Reitsuki Kojima: In general, of course. Some sci-fi is going to be inevitable, SL-physics being what they are ;)
[20:17] Salazar Jack: heh heh
[20:17] You: ...one major point raised last week was that the look should be turn-of-the-century *early* modernism, i.e. biplanes > monoplanes in terms of technology, lots of canvas and cables and wood and iron trusswork, rather than aircraft aluminum and and more modern punch-holed w-sections...
[20:18] Ananda Sandgrain: hi bino
[20:18] Bino Arbuckle: Evening
[20:18] Kanker Greenacre: hey bino
[20:18] Salazar Jack waves at Bino
[20:18] Reitsuki Kojima: Grab a chair, Bino!
[20:18] You: ...so, we're talking eiffel tower through the golden age of aviation, mostly, like airships made fantasy, fritz lang and the like...
[20:18] Bino Arbuckle: It took some effort to get on the platform... going to stay put for now... kept hitting phantom stuff apparently, or my client/ISP is bad
[20:19] Reitsuki Kojima: No, its just a buggy mega prim
[20:19] Reitsuki Kojima: Your safe
[20:19] Bino Arbuckle: Thanks though
[20:19] You: ...no, therre's a megaprim blocking entry here...
[20:19] Reitsuki Kojima: Your perfectly safe, really :)
[20:19] You: ...grab a chair and another will res up, bino...
[20:19] Kanker Greenacre: grab the empty chair, specifically
[20:20] You: ...that helps...
[20:20] Jane Fossett is Offline
[20:20] Reitsuki Kojima: Here, I'm gonna delete the mega prim. I'll put a prim under us for saftey
[20:20] Myrrh Massiel hehs.
[20:20] Ananda Sandgrain: this is a great conference gadget! we could sure use one of these at the office sometimes
[20:20] Arrekusu Muromachi: That's the problemw with the mega prims, nice in theory but the bounding's unpredecitable.
[20:21] Kanker Greenacre: yeah, i'd love to have one in my cubicle
[20:21] You: ...so - this week, i know that at least ananda and myself have done some preliminary design brainstorming...
[20:21] You: ...ananda's worked on the big ribbed canvases you see floating around here, for starters...
[20:21] Ananda Sandgrain: most of it at full scale :)
[20:22] Ananda Sandgrain: and Reitsuki has a model for the top of the tether
[20:22] Oliphant Ming is Offline
[20:22] Reitsuki Kojima: Its a pretty rough sketch
[20:22] You: ...i hastily threw together a basic concept for a cable-stayed elevator which can run past upper cable-stayed platforms without colliding...
[20:22] Reitsuki Kojima: But if you look up, you'll see the basic idea I was thinking about
[20:22] Myrrh Massiel sees. Ah, I get it better, now...
[20:22] Arrekusu Muromachi: Using steel for the canvas arms may make it look more into the era. The wood makes it feel rustic.
[20:22] Reitsuki Kojima: Again, excuse the five minute model
[20:23] Ananda Sandgrain: could be. They still build skyscrapers using bamboo scaffolding :)
[20:23] You: ...well, the idea is kind of in keeping with the era of big steel-truss major superstructure with wood decking and canvaswork...
[20:24] You: ...kind of a hybrid of the three materials, plus steel guy cables...
[20:24] You: (plus bamboo's a sustainable material) ;)
[20:24] Kanker Greenacre: i like the layout of your platform, rei
[20:25] Reitsuki Kojima: Thanks Kanker. And some (careful) use of mega prims should let me keep it fairly low-prim too
[20:25] Salazar Jack: I can probably supply some wood from the Forest of Kahruvel.. not a whole lot, but some.
[20:25] Ananda Sandgrain: I picture this looking a bit like someone found this giant ancient metal structure and proceed to build a village into it :)
[20:25] You: ...i was wondering how viable it might be to link in some ginormous megaprim balloon with the linked set's root *right at* 767.999, to have some really big realistically bouyant balloons visible way up there where they won't get in anyone's way...
[20:25] Kanker Greenacre: i like that idea
[20:25] Salazar Jack nods
[20:25] Kanker Greenacre: as if we found it just sitting here, left over from years ago
[20:26] Kanker Greenacre: and decided to rebuild stuff on it
[20:26] Arrekusu Muromachi: New era of the Neo Kazenojin. They found the old strcutre and developed around it.
[20:26] Ananda Sandgrain: hehe, which wouldn't be that far off
[20:26] Reitsuki Kojima: Really it wouldnt be
[20:26] Reitsuki Kojima: Mega prims are almost impossible to link in any useful fashion
[20:26] You: ...just to have the root point offset from the megaprim's center, a two-prim link?..
[20:26] Arrekusu Muromachi: I hate to sound like a broken record but the bounding boxes are a problem too if the megas were used for platform construction.
[20:27] Reitsuki Kojima: Arre: I said, careful use. Some prims are fine
[20:27] Myrrh Massiel nods.
[20:27] Reitsuki Kojima: Others, I'd be deliberatly setting phantom anyways
[20:27] Salazar Jack: Perhaps we could prop up parts of the superstructure and add some braces and extra supports for aging metal sections?
[20:27] Reitsuki Kojima: Like the outer gas bags (to prevent wing clips and such)
[20:27] Arrekusu Muromachi: Would make sense.
[20:27] Kanker Greenacre: hehe, fun idea, salazar
[20:27] Ananda Sandgrain: I like that :)
[20:28] Arrekusu Muromachi: O.o
[20:28] You: ...i'd like to see the top of the cable splay wide in similar fashion to the root down blow, fastened across the breadth of the underside of the uppermost balloon structure...
[20:28] Reitsuki Kojima: Thats doable.
[20:28] Kanker Greenacre: that would make sense
[20:29] Myrrh Massiel suddenly notices the mini-airship...neat. ;)
[20:29] Ananda Sandgrain: no objections if we were to start clearing out all the stuff above the clouds?
[20:29] Reitsuki Kojima: None from me. I've been meaning to delete my crap up there anyways
[20:30] Reitsuki Kojima: I just keep forgetting
[20:30] Huns Valen: nuke it
[20:30] Ananda Sandgrain: ok
[20:30] Salazar Jack: It's the only way to be sure.
[20:30] You: ...the only concern i have is the person who built the rocket-launch tower up on the uppermost level...
[20:30] Kanker Greenacre: with extreme prejudice
[20:30] Reitsuki Kojima: I havent seen that I guess
[20:30] Reitsuki Kojima: I havent been up there in ages
[20:30] You: ...i think that was constructred (comparatively) recently, and might be an active project...
[20:30] Ananda Sandgrain: well, he hasn't signed on in a couple months
[20:30] Myrrh Massiel nods.
[20:30] Bino Arbuckle: Yeah, Nikolai is on-and-off active, see stuff there all the time, just not him
[20:30] Arrekusu Muromachi: I don't see any problems with clearing anything above the cloud level.
[20:30] Kanker Greenacre: the rocket thing has been there for a year at least
[20:31] You: ...i suppose we could send out a warning notice that everything not part of the new construction will be cleared out this week?..
[20:31] Bino Arbuckle: Well, we can go inspect it and see the creation date
[20:31] Kanker Greenacre: if we return it, it will be in his inventory
[20:31] Reitsuki Kojima: well, you can return things that look important I suppose, so
[20:31] Myrrh Massiel nods.
[20:31] Huns Valen: return everything
[20:31] Huns Valen: even if it's a plywood cube
[20:31] Huns Valen: don't delete stuff
[20:31] Ananda Sandgrain: He hasn't donated land either, so we wouldn't be stepping on toes that way
[20:31] You: ...only admirals can return anything owned by kazenojin...
[20:31] MarkTwain White is Offline
[20:32] Kanker Greenacre: then i nominate ananda to do it
[20:32] Ananda Sandgrain: hehe
[20:33] Reitsuki Kojima: well, I'll try to remember to get up there and just delete my crap, then. I dont want it in my inventory ;)
[20:33] Ananda Sandgrain: ok, we'll assume everything of his goes :)
[20:33] Bino Arbuckle: Actually it should all return as one object, isn't that how things go now, they're packaged up?
[20:33] Arrekusu Muromachi: I may have some long forgotten builds up there myself. I'll do a runby these days and look.
[20:33] Reitsuki Kojima: yeah
[20:34] Bino Arbuckle: on this parcel, Arre you have 57 prims, and Reitsuki 49
[20:34] Bino Arbuckle: Although this is the Outfitters parcel we are over technically
[20:34] You: ...so - i wish i'd had a chance to mock up my upper-hangar/workshop module, but basically it cantilervers off one side of the cable, braced from below with a steel truss bracing arm not unlike the twoer structuer, with support guys anchored to the main cable holding the cantilever from above...
[20:34] You: ...it 'rotates' freely, although we needn't neccessarily script that to actually be functional...
[20:35] Grey Nolder is Online
[20:35] Ananda Sandgrain can't wait to see what this looks like
[20:35] Kanker Greenacre: does it have any means of buoyancy?
[20:35] You: ...the idea is that airships can moor on each of these workshop decks, at the far end of the outstretched arm, and it'll always weathervane about to be facing downwind, so the airships can moor stably at each level...
[20:35] You: ...all their support is off the central cable, bouyed by the giant balloons up top...
[20:36] You: ...the idea is that each of these levels can host a pair of workshops/hangars/skyboxes for working kazenojin and their projects...
[20:36] Kanker Greenacre: seems like it would need something to counterbalance it, not that i'm a stickler for that sort of thing
[20:37] You: ...it's held upright by the tension in the central cable...
[20:37] Kanker Greenacre: yeah, but obviously in reality the cable would bend if something was pulling on one side
[20:37] Ananda Sandgrain: A little bit, maybe
[20:38] Kanker Greenacre: you could design it with a counterweight on the opposite side
[20:38] You: ...true, but the bracing to the cable has a pretty widely-spaced vertical distance to spread the torque wide for minimal effect...
[20:38] Arrekusu Muromachi: If everything was symmetircal, there would hardly be any bend.
[20:38] Kanker Greenacre: just for appearances sake
[20:38] Ananda Sandgrain: I wonder if we should add a bit of bend :)
[20:39] You: ...the problem is working out a design which allows an elevator to mechanically scale the cable while the levels are also braced off of the cable, too...
[20:39] Kanker Greenacre: the counterweight would be attached tothe platfrom
[20:39] You: ...my elevator mockup is already hanging off the central cable, a little ways up above us...
[20:39] Reitsuki Kojima: Not to force a topic change, but I think we've got about as far - tonight - as we're going to get on the above-the-clouds issue. What about below the clouds? What about the runways and store and such?
[20:39] Kanker Greenacre: and the support would go around the cable
[20:39] Salazar Jack: So it bends a bit.. so what... let it bend if it needs to bend. Oh vay!
[20:39] Ananda Sandgrain: hehe
[20:40] You: ...i favor keeping runways down on the ground, personally...
[20:40] Huns Valen: we need to have at least one elevated runway
[20:40] Reitsuki Kojima: Oh, definetly. Was never suggesting we do away with those
[20:40] Arrekusu Muromachi: Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't our plans for the ground level to raze and rebuild it?
[20:40] Huns Valen: there is too much trash on the approach for either of the two ones we have now
[20:40] Reitsuki Kojima: Although, for example... should they stay paved? Maybe dirt?
[20:40] Ananda Sandgrain: figuring out the elevator(s) is looking like the trickiest part to coordinate
[20:40] Reitsuki Kojima: Yes, Arre. But we haven't really decided with what
[20:41] Kanker Greenacre: aren't we keepign gray field?
[20:41] You: ...the upper runways could have carrier-deck construction, the lower runways could be paved, i think...
[20:41] Kanker Greenacre: including the control tower?
[20:41] Arrekusu Muromachi: Sounds good.
[20:41] Huns Valen: we don't really need a control tower
[20:41] Huns Valen: Gray is an uncontrolled field
[20:41] Kanker Greenacre: just for nostalgia's sake
[20:41] Ananda Sandgrain: my thought would be to cut back a bit on the paved area and connect the runways
[20:41] Reitsuki Kojima: I like the symbology of a tower, but...
[20:41] Arrekusu Muromachi: The way SL is now, there's no ATC so there's no real need for CT's.
[20:41] You: ...we're keeping gray field, but we talked about rebuilding a lot of the support structures down there to be a bit more refined and in-theme...
[20:42] Reitsuki Kojima: I dunno. Maybe just a wood spotting tower
[20:42] Arrekusu Muromachi: I was thinking we could enforce some rules to try and keep the runway looking more tidy.
[20:42] Huns Valen: a terminal building maybe, but there are many more uncontrolled airports in the real world than towered ones, and that is more in line with what we have here.
[20:42] Reitsuki Kojima: Maybe some of the acousting plane detectors they used in WWI
[20:42] You: ...i think that's a good idea, alex...
[20:42] Reitsuki Kojima: Definetly agree with Arrekusu on that point
[20:43] Reitsuki Kojima: And I agree with huns too, we dont need a tower.
[20:43] Reitsuki Kojima: Strictly speaking.
[20:43] Reitsuki Kojima: But it does have symbology
[20:43] Reitsuki Kojima: So I could go either way
[20:43] Kanker Greenacre: obviously, strictly speaking, we don't need a tower
[20:43] You: ...steel-and-wood spotting tower with a ribbed canvas awning... ^_^
[20:43] Kanker Greenacre: since even if we had one, it would never actually do anything
[20:43] Reitsuki Kojima: Well, yes
[20:43] Arrekusu Muromachi: The current condition is that there's a lot of "spillover" from the nearby sandbox plus the jumbled mixture of sci-fi and old planes. Plus some of the members who just join to plop their builds on the ground gotten a tad too far.
[20:43] You: ...well, that's not neccessarily true, kanker...
[20:43] Salazar Jack: Perhaps the tower gets destroyed in whatever happened to leave the superstructure vacant for the new village dwellers?
[20:43] Reitsuki Kojima: Thats why I suggest a compromise, a wooden spotting tower, but not a control tower
[20:43] Arrekusu Muromachi: Two of the same jet being sold within the field.
[20:44] Reitsuki Kojima: It gets the "tower" symbology out of the way
[20:44] You: ...i had an idea last week regarding the bar in the finish line which i think we could also apply to the control tower...
[20:44] You: ...that is: we could put 'camping' animations for a bartender and a couple of aircraft controllers, staff the place...
[20:44] Salazar Jack: How about we board the old tower up and let it degenrate into rubble.
[20:44] Kanker Greenacre: hehe
[20:45] Reitsuki Kojima: Ug. No camping. Please.
[20:45] Salazar Jack: Over time.
[20:45] Kanker Greenacre: and hire noobs to pretend to be air traffic controllers?
[20:45] You: ...it'd be dirt-cheap, say ten lindens per hour, and only three people in gray it's not like it would become a camping hangout - more like ambience of having the placed manned by staff...
[20:45] Arrekusu Muromachi: The old tower/terminal I reguard as a symbol. Maybe just decomission it and put a plaque up somewhere saying that this was one of the first builds.
[20:45] Kanker Greenacre: sounds like something my alt my enjoy
[20:45] Huns Valen: you gonna pay the camping fees? :P
[20:46] Reitsuki Kojima: I really dont like camping. If you wanna put the anims in, thats cool. Hell, I'll even make 'em. But I dont like camping on general principle
[20:46] Kanker Greenacre: i like what cubey et al did with their old abbotts field
[20:46] You: ...at camping rates?..gladly; what does that come to, about ten dollars per month?..
[20:46] Arrekusu Muromachi: Even the prospect of L$1 an hour could bring in...the darker side of SL here.
[20:46] Myrrh Massiel nods. Okay, I concede the point, but animations, at least.
[20:47] Reitsuki Kojima: Animations, surely
[20:47] Reitsuki Kojima: Heck, could even come up with non-monentary camping incentives
[20:47] Reitsuki Kojima: They did that a Nagaya
[20:47] Arrekusu Muromachi: I don't see a problem with it. I have yet to see Gray freak out due to an overload on resources.
[20:47] Reitsuki Kojima: Worked pretty neat
[20:47] You: ...it freaks out whenever the plum mob spills over...
[20:47] Salazar Jack: What sort of incentives did they do at Nagaya?
[20:48] Kanker Greenacre: like just the other day, when someone's toys were grinding the sim to a halt
[20:48] Reitsuki Kojima: Theres this booth in the market square, Sal... it looks like an old-time parasol merchant's booth. But its empty. If you sit there, you start animating like your making parasols
[20:48] Reitsuki Kojima: After a while, you can choose one of sevearl designs free
[20:48] Reitsuki Kojima: *several, even
[20:48] Salazar Jack: Cool!
[20:48] You: ...i saw one place which provided camping incentives not in lindens but in credits toward weaponry which they sold, camp out say a week and you get a free gun, that sort of thing...
[20:48] Salazar Jack: I like that.
[20:49] Reitsuki Kojima: So, I dunno what we would come up with, but
[20:49] Reitsuki Kojima: Its an idea to think about
[20:49] Reitsuki Kojima: As opposed to just paying blingtards to waste electciity
[20:49] Arrekusu Muromachi: Being a sensible gun collector and an admin...That would be a bad idea. o.o
[20:49] Ananda Sandgrain: hmm
[20:49] Reitsuki Kojima: *electricity. Less beer, more typing
[20:50] Multi Chair Coffee Table v1.0.39 (Blue and Black) whispers: Arrekusu Muromachi took a copy of the Multi Chair Help notecard.
[20:50] Multi Chair Coffee Table v1.0.39 (Blue and Black) whispers: Arrekusu Muromachi took a copy of the Multi Chair Help notecard.
[20:50] Arrekusu Muromachi: O.x
[20:50] Myrrh Massiel hehs. guns are just an example; i was thinking kazenojin memoriblia, titles, aircraft, that sort.
[20:50] Kanker Greenacre: there's some useful object spam for you
[20:50] Huns Valen: yeah we already have a problem with resource availability in this sim without inviting people to show up with their 50-listener bling necklaces and 500-script shields
[20:50] Myrrh Massiel nods.
[20:50] Arrekusu Muromachi: Ahhh..That would sound more resonable. Maybe some nicer freebee planes as an incentive.
[20:50] Ananda Sandgrain: another possibility is poeple could get in-sim dogfighting gear
[20:51] Reitsuki Kojima: "Slightly Used" aircraft
[20:51] Reitsuki Kojima: Retexture them with rusty textures and stuff ;)
[20:51] Arrekusu Muromachi: As we discussed last week, the problems with dogfighting come to the fact that there isn't a universal standard or even a real "de-facto" standard.
[20:51] You: ...one big objective which goes hand-in-hand with this redesign is nurturing an active community into using the flight complex as a regular base of operations again, in that sense, titles alone could prove a big incenive...
[20:53] You: ...for example, at kazenojin seiringu, all sailors start off as 'kaiin' but upon winning a regatta, they're promoted to the rank of 'kazenojin' - it encourages a lot of people to get involved with the group just to earn the title...
[20:53] Arrekusu Muromachi: We could always open up the group and divide the newer members from the older ones based on experience, um...how long you've been in the Kazenojin, and how active you are within the group.
[20:53] Salazar Jack: I remember you mentioning spaces where members could work, skyboxes, hangars, etc. If sim resources are a precious commodity then they should go toward that, instead of toward any type of artificial activity for passerby's.
[20:53] Kanker Greenacre: how about everyone starts off as "$#!t for brains" then when they pay L$10000 they get a new title?
[20:53] Myrrh Massiel nods.
[20:54] You: ...well, i'm not talking about anything on a large scale, for animations, just two or three people, tops...
[20:54] Huns Valen: I got distracted for a few mins
[20:54] Huns Valen: have we talked about doing anything about slow script execution here
[20:54] Reitsuki Kojima: Not yet.
[20:54] Reitsuki Kojima: If you wanna throw a discussion topic out, go for it :)
[20:54] You: ...is that a problem?..is it due to the load or the server resources?..
[20:54] Arrekusu Muromachi: Every time I'm here, I never seen anything having to do with slow scripts.
[20:54] Kanker Greenacre fires up the statistics bar
[20:55] Huns Valen: hmm
[20:55] Huns Valen: maybe it's better now
[20:55] Huns Valen: let me check...
[20:55] Arrekusu Muromachi: Load right now seems to be on par though. 45k IPS with time being 13-15ms
[20:55] Kanker Greenacre: ~41000 ips for scripts
[20:55] Kanker Greenacre: which is pretty high
[20:55] Bino Arbuckle: If you're talking today, well, the whole grid seemed hosed from my perspective at least... lead to a nasty write-in to the crashreporter
[20:56] You: ...we do get slammed on occassion when the plum goons swarm us or the alliance navy drops in for a training exercise, but i've never noticed an ongoing issue with sim performance here otherwise...
[20:56] Kanker Greenacre: but i guess there are alot of vehicles just sitting around doing nothing
[20:56] Bino Arbuckle: Have we surveyed nearby or comparably-themed sims?
[20:56] Kanker Greenacre: hollywood runs around 35K ips
[20:56] You: ...for performance?..not really that i know of, no...
[20:57] Reitsuki Kojima: I dunno. I can tell you, Abbotts takes it up the RAM-slot on a daily basis.
[20:57] Arrekusu Muromachi: Aerodrome's around the same performance as Gray as far as scripting goes. How it's worse than here is out of my understanding. o.o
[20:57] Reitsuki Kojima: And have constant lag
[20:57] Reitsuki Kojima: We crash 2-3 times a day
[20:57] Arrekusu Muromachi: Mainly because of the load of people.
[20:57] Reitsuki Kojima: true
[20:57] Arrekusu Muromachi: Old Class 3 server.
[20:57] Kanker Greenacre: must be all the visitors
[20:57] You: ...abbotts is of comparable vintage to gray, non?..just a few months newer?..
[20:57] Salazar Jack: Abbotts sits right on the edge of the Kahruvel Triangle.
[20:58] Salazar Jack: I'm not surprised it gets hosed regularly.
[20:58] Huns Valen: beats the crap out of abbotts but still not great
[20:58] You: ...the kahruvel sims are always a dream to fly through, though, never much of a load swarming them in my experience...
[20:58] Reitsuki Kojima: If anyone has the link to Chromal's simstats page (I dont, offhand), Abbotts is first on the list... and the graph is really erratic
[20:58] Salazar Jack: Yeah, but there are always strange things afoot there.
[20:59] Arrekusu Muromachi: Abbotts is in a similar situation to Gray. Nearby sandbox.
[20:59] You: ...it must be the nearby circle k... ;)
[20:59] Huns Valen: that's because apotheus lets people sh-- the sim up with their slexchange boxes
[20:59] Reitsuki Kojima: :) Yes, Huns. Believe me, thats been a point of contention
[20:59] Salazar Jack: lol
[20:59] Reitsuki Kojima: Thankfully, they should be moved out this week or next
[20:59] Arrekusu Muromachi: Apoth's been planning to move SLX to a private sim.
[20:59] Arrekusu Muromachi: And mot of the SLX boxes I've seen there are gone now.

PART TWO

[20:59] Bino Arbuckle: http://planet0.planet-zero.org/~chromal/simstats/
[21:00] Reitsuki Kojima: Thanks, Bino
[21:00] Kanker Greenacre: http://planet0.planet-zero.org/~chromal/sim_stats/
[21:00] Bino Arbuckle: oops old link, kanker's got the newer one
[21:00] Salazar Jack: Thanks Kanker.
[21:00] Arrekusu Muromachi: The problem is the vistors. A good portion wears excessive bling and we do get the ocassional warring group who do nothing but shoot at each other and don't think about others around them.
[21:00] You: ...speaking of remnant parcels within a themed sim - i don't know how many of you know, but marcos sold his parcel a week or two ago to a land speculator...
[21:00] Reitsuki Kojima: Is Gray up there? I'll throw out a logger later if not
[21:00] Kanker Greenacre: let's take up a collection for L$135K
[21:01] Kanker Greenacre: so we can buy that corner plot of 2048 m
[21:01] Bino Arbuckle: Not seeing it
[21:01] You: ...it was immediately turned around and put back on the market at an insane markup, something on the order of fifty lindens per meter...
[21:01] Reitsuki Kojima: *cough* 135k?
[21:01] Myrrh Massiel nods.
[21:01] Salazar Jack whistles
[21:01] Reitsuki Kojima: I have better uses for a thousand dollars
[21:01] Arrekusu Muromachi: Which corner? O.o;
[21:01] Salazar Jack: Southeast
[21:01] Bino Arbuckle: To be fair to Marcos, he put it up for sale for L$100k with the build... he did not specifically sell it to a speculator, from what I can tell
[21:02] Kanker Greenacre: it makes schwanson schlegel look like a philanthropist
[21:02] Arrekusu Muromachi: O.o;
[21:02] You: ...i don't think we shoudl even entertain buying at that sort of price, but would it be worth our while to put in a standing offer at a rate we think is reasonable, as a fallback to waiting until the price drops enough for us to bite?..
[21:02] Bino Arbuckle: The speculator put a good markup on it and tossed the nice build though
[21:02] Reitsuki Kojima: Land prices lately have gone absolutely insane though
[21:02] Reitsuki Kojima: I've been offered 500+ dollars for little plots of mine, in old sims
[21:02] You: ...i thought they'd come back down since linden lab began rolling out mainland parcels again...
[21:02] Kanker Greenacre: at that price, nothing reputable is going to be built on it, if someone buys it
[21:03] You: tulip maina
[21:03] Ananda Sandgrain: it may take a while, they had over 300 islands backlogged
[21:03] Salazar Jack: The PG rating here helps.
[21:03] Huns Valen: then we've got delairen's plot
[21:03] Huns Valen: "hurr eject everyone"
[21:03] Arrekusu Muromachi: Either someone buys it for a prim farm or someone puts up an ugly club.
[21:03] You: ...but the unlimited terraforming hurts - i worry abo8ut someone buying it and spiking up the terrain...
[21:04] Reitsuki Kojima: We've always had that risk, Myrrh... even when we controled more of the sim, it happened sometimes in Blue
[21:04] Reitsuki Kojima: Say, Mount Ego, for example
[21:04] You: ...i think del's going to just be a thorn in our side for perpetuity as long as her husband is working at linden lab...
[21:04] Kanker Greenacre: we need to get someone else from LL on our side
[21:04] Ananda Sandgrain: You know, if it weren't for all the grandfathered tier here, I'd start speculating on whether we could convert proceeds towards an island :)
[21:05] Kanker Greenacre: who will beat up xylor
[21:05] You: ...i think gray's historical legacy is too precious to let go, really...
[21:05] Reitsuki Kojima: The sad thing is, Ananda, that private sims are in almost every way far more sensible than mainland anymore
[21:05] Reitsuki Kojima: The only reason people stay here is legacy
[21:05] Arrekusu Muromachi: Gray being one of the first communites and the land being a core sim.
[21:05] Huns Valen: this should be a sim you can fly to.
[21:06] Reitsuki Kojima: Yes, thats the other thing
[21:06] Ananda Sandgrain: Delairen really pissed me off with all that - she would have never had that land without Xylor
[21:06] Reitsuki Kojima: We've discussed it for Abbotts, too
[21:06] Reitsuki Kojima: But whats the point of an airport you cant get to or leave?
[21:06] You: ...if mainland travel were to become workable again - lose the no-object-entry-death-penalty on vehicles - this spot would once again be pretty unmatchable by anything on a private estate...
[21:06] Arrekusu Muromachi: If we were our own island, we'd probally just let it go to hell and have managemnt who complains every other second.
[21:07] Arrekusu Muromachi: ...Take it from me. FlyingTails went downhill after Effsey quit listening to me and I left.
[21:07] Reitsuki Kojima: No
[21:07] You: ...well, gray is mostly supported by lifetime accounts, and that tier isn't transferrable to private estate fees, either...
[21:07] Huns Valen: I don't want to worry about managing an island, and collecting 300bux every single month. to say nothing of the cost of buying it in the first place. we have the momentum of lots of gifted tier here. no reason to leave that behind.
[21:07] Reitsuki Kojima: Delete the last seven words off that sentance, and it would be true
[21:07] Ananda Sandgrain: yah, I wasn't really serious
[21:08] Ananda Sandgrain: It sure would be nice if we had ever managed to get complete control of Gray
[21:08] Salazar Jack: I really like that it's here on the mainland.
[21:08] Kanker Greenacre: it could still happen
[21:08] Huns Valen: what does delairen do exactly
[21:08] Huns Valen: besides farm plywood
[21:08] Kanker Greenacre: with her parcel?
[21:09] Kanker Greenacre: i have no idea
[21:09] Huns Valen: yes
[21:09] Kanker Greenacre: i just see ugly junk on it
[21:09] You: ...well, coming from my own perspective of stumbling upon an abandoned and neglecte4d flight complex when i first joined SL a year and a half ago, we've made *considerable* progress since then...
[21:09] Huns Valen: it's not just no access, you actually get ejected if you fly over the red bars
[21:09] Huns Valen: it's so stupid
[21:09] You: ...no more casino, no more dating service, actual *p0eople* here on occasion...
[21:09] Kanker Greenacre: yeah, it's not safe to fly around that parcel
[21:09] Kanker Greenacre: or sail
[21:10] Kanker Greenacre: that's true, remember when schwanson's casino was down there?
[21:10] Kanker Greenacre: that was an eyesore
[21:10] Bino Arbuckle: I get trampolined on that parcel, I haven't gotten kicked or orbited because of it
[21:10] You: ...del's one of the main designers in the pixeldolls cartel - the plywood are shop-designs-inprogress, occasionally you'll see her hair models lying about as she refines them...
[21:10] Reitsuki Kojima: And yet, strangely, still preferable to an eject-o-box
[21:10] Kanker Greenacre: hehe
[21:11] Reitsuki Kojima: Strange. I've delt with some of the PixelDolls crew on other projects, never had any problem with them
[21:11] Kanker Greenacre: we could try driving her out
[21:11] Reitsuki Kojima: But I'm most familiar with the Protgaonists
[21:11] Bino Arbuckle: The one positive side-effect was that our prim usage as a group went way down :-)
[21:11] Kanker Greenacre: put out scanners that detect when she comes onto her parcel
[21:11] Huns Valen: antagonizing a linden's wife is not a good idea
[21:11] You: ...she came to gray *because* it was empty and forgotten, and she told me in no uncertain terms that she was fairly resentful of my efforts to gather an active community here again - she just wants a quiet skybox workspace...
[21:11] Huns Valen: their abuse system is run like a backwoods sherriff's office
[21:11] Ananda Sandgrain: somehow I don't think that's the way to go
[21:11] Kanker Greenacre: and that then ratchet up to drive the sim into 0.01 time dilation
[21:11] You: ...so i'm optimistic that if we get active enough, she'll chose to move elsewhere...
[21:11] Arrekusu Muromachi: PD used to have an outlet at the Aerodrome that deals with a line of flight gear but that seemed to have disapepred with the rebuild.
[21:11] Huns Valen: they don't need any kind of evidence or rationale for banning you, they can just decide to do it and you're gone
[21:12] Kanker Greenacre: yes, i was kidding
[21:12] Bino Arbuckle: I coulda sworn I saw a shelf put out by Cubey there but they never decided to repopulate the store
[21:12] Reitsuki Kojima: Yup :(
[21:12] Ananda Sandgrain: I don't think I'm the one to try to talk to her, not after I was drunk one night and told her I'd like to steal her boyfriend :p
[21:12] Bino Arbuckle: The jackets were quite nice, I have a couple
[21:13] Myrrh Massiel laughs.
[21:13] Kanker Greenacre: TMI, ananda
[21:13] Ananda Sandgrain: hehe, just so you know the history
[21:13] Huns Valen: I chuckled
[21:14] You: ...well, she and i have always been of friendly terms, but we both know that neither of us appreciates the other's intentions with gray... ;)
[21:14] Kanker Greenacre: so what should be built down below in place of the airfield?
[21:14] You: ...i think we should keep the airfield, personally...
[21:14] Ananda Sandgrain: hmm, you'd think Xylor would have something to say about that - but oh well
[21:14] Salazar Jack: Okay folks, I know the seller of that parcel that Marcos used to own and I've just been in IM with her...
[21:15] Salazar Jack: Avi Arrow.
[21:15] You: ...xylor quit SL when he became a linden; if he goes online at all these days it to play WoW...
[21:15] Huns Valen: why is that name familiar
[21:15] Salazar Jack: She is offering to sell it to our group for L$82,000.
[21:15] Ananda Sandgrain: the airfield, yes, I do have one thing I was trying out below, the blimp barn
[21:15] You: ...that's not absurdly high, is it?..
[21:15] Arrekusu Muromachi: Isn't it a little...extravagent? O.o;
[21:15] Huns Valen: for 2048?
[21:15] Kanker Greenacre: bino, didn't you say it was set for 100K?
[21:15] You: 1320
[21:16] Huns Valen: ludicrous
[21:16] You: 132000ish
[21:16] Huns Valen: PG sim land isn't worth that much
[21:16] Kanker Greenacre: i mean, before it was bought by avi
[21:16] Bino Arbuckle: Pretty sure that's what I saw initially
[21:16] Bino Arbuckle: The map had not been updated yet
[21:16] Huns Valen: we're not going to get 500bux worth of value out of a 2048 on the edge of the sim
[21:16] Kanker Greenacre: i wonder if avi talked him down
[21:16] Salazar Jack: She did tell me that she would be willing to sell it to me for what she bought it. Does anypone know what it sold for?
[21:16] Huns Valen: ask marcos :P
[21:16] Reitsuki Kojima: If she bought it from MArcos, I can find out
[21:16] Reitsuki Kojima: He's one of my buds
[21:16] You: ...i only know that asking price was 100K with the build
[21:17] Kanker Greenacre: can't ask for anything better than for her to resell at cost
[21:17] Myrrh Massiel nods. I agree.
[21:17] Salazar Jack: I'll send him a message about that then. I iknow him too.
[21:18] Reitsuki Kojima: Ok, land situation is as far as we can go right now I suppose, until we find out more...
[21:18] Reitsuki Kojima: So, anything else?
[21:18] Huns Valen: position of an elevated runway.
[21:18] Kanker Greenacre: kaz only has 1765 m of tier available right now, btw
[21:18] You: ...not really - i think we all know the basic ideas we're playing with - from here, everyone just brainstorming and bring yourthoughts back next week...
[21:18] Reitsuki Kojima: Elevated runway?
[21:19] Huns Valen: whoever is in charge of overhauling the tower etc., think about how we could integrate an elevated runway somewhere, 'cause we need one.
[21:19] Salazar Jack: I can contribute more tier if needed.
[21:19] Ananda Sandgrain: my big question is still the control tower at the field
[21:19] Reitsuki Kojima: I dont think we've really asigned jobs yet, Huns... if you have an idea, throw it out, we haven't really even decided WHAT we're going to do with that area yet
[21:19] You: ...i like the idea of rebuilding it, but keeping *some* sort of tower...
[21:19] Ananda Sandgrain: It's history, but it also needs a serious dose of retexturing
[21:20] You: ...was that tower from the very first kazenojin build?..
[21:20] Huns Valen: nope
[21:20] Kanker Greenacre: just remember to take lots of snapshots before tearing any historic builds down
[21:20] You: ...is *anything* on the sim remaining from the first build?..
[21:20] Huns Valen: nope
[21:20] Bino Arbuckle: Drop me an IM I like taking snaps
[21:20] You: ...then in my mind nothing's sacred other than respecting the legacy...
[21:20] Reitsuki Kojima: No... although I think there was always something tall in the middle, although not the tower we have now
[21:21] Arrekusu Muromachi: I haven't even immigrated here yet.
[21:21] Kanker Greenacre: the original build didn't last that long, relatively speaking
[21:21] Ananda Sandgrain: I'd say go ahead, Bino :)
[21:21] You: ...i think the monkey mafia signs are sacred whether we want them to be or not... ;)
[21:21] Huns Valen: the current eiffel structure is the 3rd incarnation
[21:22] Kanker Greenacre: yes, hopefully those will never go away
[21:22] Ananda Sandgrain: Especially since I would like to tear out the store and put that barn down, and re grade a new approach to the tower.
[21:22] Huns Valen: 1st was a huge covered promenade on two massive rectangular pillars, 2nd was a minimalist structure ringing the skyhook
[21:22] Bino Arbuckle: Huns probably has some of the oldest images up on his site
[21:23] Huns Valen: http://gallery.kadath.org/KazenojinAirStation
[21:23] You: ...you know - honestly, since nate is *never* online anymore, we could always build some tethered wind balloons to hang over his parcel and envelop them...
[21:23] Ananda Sandgrain: I could drop the thing in a sandbox if you'd like to see it Myrrh. Although I don't know if the rezzer still works
[21:24] Lachlan Campbell is Offline
[21:24] You: ...it's kind of amusing looking at the original kazenojin design and thinking that it was enough to win an SL-wide competition...
[21:24] Reitsuki Kojima: Ah. the bad old days.
[21:24] You: ...standards of fit-and-finsh have certainly evolved since those days, i guess...
[21:24] Kanker Greenacre: geez, i forgot all about tax rates as a function of altitude
[21:24] Reitsuki Kojima: Even when I joined it wasnt great, and I was some time after that
[21:25] Kanker Greenacre: that's a model you're looking at, myrrh
[21:25] Ananda Sandgrain: haha, we actually won with a plywood model
[21:25] You: ...did you submit more t han just the mdel?..
[21:25] Huns Valen: we didn't have the sim at that point :P
[21:25] Myrrh Massiel 's typing is going...getting late and tired, here.
[21:25] Huns Valen: the thing was built after we had the sim
[21:26] Ananda Sandgrain: the criteria was actually just getting enough people willing to claim the land.
[21:26] Myrrh Massiel ahs.
[21:26] Kanker Greenacre: keep in mind SL had, what, around 30K people?
[21:26] You: ...well, regardless of the criteria, still interesting to browse...
[21:26] Ananda Sandgrain: it was about 100 online at that time
[21:26] Bino Arbuckle: This was still eta, doubt even that
[21:26] Bino Arbuckle: bet
[21:27] You: ...was it all the way up to thirty thousand by then?!.wow - wehn i joined in autumn 2005, we were only in this mid-fifties...
[21:27] Kanker Greenacre: must have been far fewer then
[21:27] Bino Arbuckle: There we go...
[21:27] Reitsuki Kojima: Heh
[21:27] Bino Arbuckle: That's the day the northen continent went public, June 18 2003
[21:27] Reitsuki Kojima: Nice flying wedge
[21:27] You: ...okay, i had *no* idea that this flying pirate ship was that old...
[21:28] Marissa Goodliffe is Offline
[21:28] Ananda Sandgrain: Is that the same one?
[21:28] Kanker Greenacre: no
[21:28] Bino Arbuckle: I don't think so
[21:28] Marissa Goodliffe is Online
[21:28] Kanker Greenacre: this is a reconstruction
[21:28] You: ...oh, it looks the same...
[21:28] Reitsuki Kojima: Yeah, its similar, but not the same
[21:28] Reitsuki Kojima: This one is wider
[21:28] Reitsuki Kojima: And better textured
[21:28] You: ...and cloudy...
[21:29] Reitsuki Kojima: Well
[21:29] Reitsuki Kojima: There wasnt really the partical system back then IIRC. Just makesmoke and makefire
[21:29] Reitsuki Kojima: Mind you, that looks like Makesmoke almost :P
[21:29] You: ...i can't imagine attempting any sort of ambitious building project under the res-tax system...
[21:30] Kanker Greenacre: unless you gamed the system
[21:30] You: ...well, i do need to sleep, or daylight saving time is going to kill me in about six nd a half hours...
[21:30] Ananda Sandgrain: which we did for a while :)
[21:30] Reitsuki Kojima: Yeah
[21:30] Reitsuki Kojima: I gotta do the bed thing soon myself
[21:30] Ananda Sandgrain: anyway that's the original model - I think
[21:30] You: ...great meeting you at last, huns...
[21:31] Huns Valen: likewise
[21:31] Reitsuki Kojima: Good to see you all again. It's been longer for some than others, but always good :)
[21:31] You: ...next week, same time, everyone bring any ideas you have for chewing... ^_^
[21:31] Ananda Sandgrain: ok, great meeting :)
[21:31] Bino Arbuckle: Speaking of gaming the system, apparently I am holding $6k of Kazenojin's pre-1.1 money, per a notecard I found earlier today... only $76k to go :P
[21:31] Ananda Sandgrain: have a good night Myrrh
[21:31] You: ...you too...