how to make windows

hi there, as i promised, here comes the next question and since i am just starting to build, there may be many more questions in the future ... even though i had searched the forum for a similar thread, i didn't find any so far, but i'm not saying there is none and i do apologize if this is a dumb question: how do i make a window or a frame?? i know the hollow function, but this didn't really seem to work. i would possibly need to know how can i cut a square from the middle of a prim??
and if i would want to make a picture frame, would i use photoshop/gimp and cut a picture or would i use a prim?
thanx so much in advance

you can use hollows but they are limited to the center of the prim and can't be irregular shapes...

the usual option is to include it as a transparent area in the texture you place on the prim.

you can make rasied frames (basicily buttonized style) by using tapers and placing the picture at the top of the prim. or use two prims in the same concept one hollowed and taperd and a center inset for the picture (thus giving you a raised outer edge instead of a recesed one)

If you're making a window by putting a transparent area in the texture you place on a prim, save total prims in your build by remembering to think of the window as an integral part of the wall, not simply as a window. That is, don't just create a "window" texture in Photoshop (GIMP, whatever ...) --- create a "wall" texture with a window in it. Look at this attached texture, for example. With judcious use of repeats and offsets as you apply textures to prims, you can do the siding and windows for an entire house -- OK, a simple house -- with a couple of textures instead of thinking of the windows as separate features

Using textures with an alpha channel on them for walls is a BIG no-no IMHO. Sure, it saves a bunch of prims, so if you are on a budget then it might suffice.

The problems occur when you try to decorate the house with other items that also have an alpha channel. Plants for example. The alpha sorting glitch (feature for plants to work correctly) won't know what face to display first and you will end up seeing plants that are outside (or inside , dependant on where you are) your house flickering in through your walls.

I guess it all depends on what type of client you are catering for and prim limits.

Using hollow doesn't generally get you there for windows, because the hole is always centered, and that's not usually where you want it. There is no other way to cut a hole in a prim. I recommend going to some of the better prefab builders places ... Ace Albion's store, Trompe L'oeil, Creative Fantasy, ArchTx Edo's place ... and see how they do it. Even tho you can't edit the models, when you choose edit for them, you can see how many prims they used in a wall, and where they're placed.

You'll see some low-prim buildings made of walls that have alpha portions for windows, but more often you'll see walls built of prims, with gaps for window "systems" that have transparent textures that are switchable to either non-alpha settings or even swap in opaque textures. So that you can see out whenever you want, and switch it to opaque (eliminating alpha sorting issues) when you are spending a lot of time indoors.

Edit: if you're new to building, you might also want to pick up a copy of Prim Finder at Crystal Gadgets -- it is an interactive board that displays just about every shape you can make in Build, and then rezzes it for you! It's a great learning tool.
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Good point. I should have qualified my post more informatively. That's what I had in mind when I said "OK, a simple house." When you're on a tight prim budget and building something with a limited number of textures with alpha channels, like the one I just finished, you grab prims where you can get them. I figure that I saved about 20 prims doing it this way. That's 20 prims that can be used for furniture instead.

You are right, though. I shouldn't have suggested this as a normal practice. /me goes to stand in the corner.

lol

There is nothing wrong with what you suggested per se. It works, and plenty of people use it. I was just explaining problems which may (will) crop up when doing it that way.

I think we agree, it all depends on prim limits, and how fussy you or your clients may be.

You could try these sculptie ones
http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=567590
there sculpties I which I knew how the guy was getting multiple hollows in them and getting them so perfect.

I tend to use glass (use a plain white or black texture) walls with a 'privacy' script (Paskis Robinson's scripts are good) that changes the transparency of the wall

Or build a frame from separate prims (OK if you have plenty spare) and put another prim inside (again use a plain texture on the inside prim and add the script)

wow, thanx so much for the many answers and so many hints and suggestions.
nika, indeed i went to crystal gadgets and this place is really marvellous!! they have so many nice things. have no idea if all of them are going to be useful for me, but i got them anyway. will see if i can use them ))

so, in making a picture frame for instance, could one also use sculpies i wonder?? a changing frame would include a changing script i suppose. can a script be used on a photoshop frame???
have a great evening )

The alpha Glitch appears even if the windows are separate prims. Using a 32 bit texture as Rolig explains is not the only cause. Place plants in from of any 32 bit texture and the result will be the same at certain angles. However, using a complete texture can increase this but there are a number of ways to avoid it and overcome it and should not be ruled out. It will depend on the experience of the builder and the textures used. I have built quite a few houses all with 32 bit textures saving an enormous amount of prims but there are a few techniques I use. The end result is they appear no different than any other build that does not use them except the prim count is much less.

"you'll see some low-prim buildings made of walls that have alpha portions for windows, but more often you'll see walls built of prims, with gaps for window "systems"

I'm sorry bur I don't understand the term 'gaps' - do u mean you join 4 prims to make a wall around a window? If no, and 'hollow' doesn't work then what does?
If I went with an 'alpha channel' does that mean I make the wall transparent?

Where I am now is: I have 4 rather solid walls and a window from the 'Rhode' set that I put a piece of wood across for glass and used a texture from the set to make it transparent, but when I put it in the wall the wall still shows up!! Damn, I wish I could use my sawsall.

Yup, exactly. One prim to the right, one to the left, and one each top and bottom. In the 'gap' is nothing but virtual air. If you make a window this way, you put your window texture, complete with any alpha-textured areas that are supposed to be clear 'glass,' on a fifth prim, adjust it to the shape and size of the 'gap', flatten it, and put it in the opening.



'Hollow' does work. It's just ugly, is all. When you use the 'hollow' method, you get a hole bang in the middle of the prim. You have no control over its dimensions (other than by changing the dimensions of the prim itself) or placement. If you're in a hurry or trying for the primitive look, though, go for it.



No, just the part of the wall that is going to be the window. When you create the texture for the wall (in Photoshop or whatever), you leave the alpha channel image white (=opaque) except where you want the window. You make the parts of the alpha that are supposed to be 'glass' a very dark gray (try 85%) so they will be almost clear in the final image but not quite.

As the replies to my own post above point out, this method leaves you vulnerable to the alpha sorting challenge, although you do save on prims by using it. (Only one prim instead of two for the 'hollow' method or five for the 'gap' method.)



Ah! That's because you just stuck your 'window' prim on an opaque background. The window may be transparent, but the wall behind it isn't. What you did is like hanging a picture on the wall. I'm not familiar with the Rhode set, but it sounds like a prefab window unit that doesn't have any transparency of its own. If that's the case -- that is, if its own 'glass' isn't transparent -- then you can't make it transparent by hanging your own glass in front of it. You'll have to either buy another prefab unit that DOES have transparent glass in it, or texture your own. If it were my house, I'd take the second route. Creating a new window texture is maybe 20 minutes' work.

Good luck building, and don't throw away your Sawsall in RL.

Rollig - The Rhode set I refered to is the beautiful sculpty set refered to in post #8.
he included window textures and the result is great until I put it into the wall**

I'm still a little unclear on the alpha thing (but heck , I'm a newbie). Are u saying that the x,y,z dimensions have no spacial reality until i add a texture of some sort. so that, if i Photoshopped a wall of the right preportions and colored where the window goes with alpha channel, then I could load it in, put it on my wall and get the desired result?
And if all that's true why aren't there kits out there that allready have window textures in the usual spots? Or r there? Oh, help and bother!

Cool. I'll have to take a look at that one sometime. It sounds interesting.

From your description, it sounds like this unit is essentially a prefab sculpty window frame that you add a "glass" prim to. Yes? Sort of like going to a RL lumber yard and buying a commercial window unit that they have been too cheap to put any glass in. If that's the case, then you ought to be able to insert your own 'glass' and then put it into an appropriately-sized hole in your wall, just as you would if you had framed your house in RL. You'll need four prims to surround the hole, analogous to the way you would frame a RL window with two studs, a header, and a sill. You can't just nail the window unit to a solid wall of the house and expect to see through it -- in SL or in RL.


Um..... I'm not sure I understand exactly what you just said, but I think the answer is 'yes.' Suppose you made a wall out of a single cubic prim, flattened to make it 'wall thickness.' You can make it any x,y,z dimensions you choose, just as you could in RL. Now, suppose you want to use the method you've been calling the 'alpha channel' method to put a window somewhere in that wall. You would sit down with Photoshop and draw the wall, complete with the window. You would create the alpha channel that is part of your drawing so that it generates transparency in the 'window' part of the wall and is opaque elsewhere.

With me so far? If you don't know what an alpha channel is or how to deal with it, consult the sticky at the top of the Texturing Tips forum and read Robin Wood's *excellent* tutorial at http://www.robinwood.com/Catalog/Technical/SL-Tuts/SLTutSet.html.

OK, Your drawing has its own dimensions in pixels. If you have been planning ahead, those dimensions are proportional to the dimensions of the prim you're using for the wall. If not, it's no BIG deal because your drawing isn't like a big sheet of wallpaper. It's more like a rubber sheet. When you upload it and apply it to the prim wall, you can stretch it to fit (with the 'repeats' parameters in the Textures tab of your Edit window) and you can move it around (with the 'offsets' parameters).

So, yes, if I understand you correctly, you can make your wall any size and shape you want and then apply your 'wall/window' texture to it and fiddle around to get the window exactly where you want it. The only price you pay (other than the alpha sorting business that I'm ignoring anyway) is that if you do too much stretching of your texture, it will start to look fuzzy. That's why it's best to plan ahead and make your drawing proportional to the finished wall prim. That way, all you have to do is mess with offsets to position it.



Maybe there are. Just as in RL, though, houses come in all shapes and sizes, so there aren't a lot of 'usual spots.' In SL and in RL, builders do their own framing and either insert commercial modular window units or make their own. There isn't a big demand for generic wall textures with windows in them.

I know all of this sounds very difficult, but it really isn't once you get the hang of handling textures. In fact, it's one of the easier texturing jobs you can do in SL. Be patient, work through a few tutorials, and experiment. You'll have a great "Aha!" moment before long and you'll be on your way to being a pro.

thanks - since I want a quality cottage I guess I'll go with the 4 piece wall, but boy that sure eats a lot of prims when you do a whole house - Hey, I like windows. (In both RL and SL).
ANyway I appreciate all the help!