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Slightly different permissions question: take, attach, ownership

Kidd Krasner
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,938
02-01-2007 17:58
The sticky thread does a great job of explaining permissions from the viewpoint of a creator trying to protect their creation. But I'm not sure that I have the permissions down with respect to using something.

Here's what I think is correct with regard to an object that someone puts down. Please correct or complete any of these.
  1. In order to move an object owned by someone else, it must both be physical and grant the move permission. Alternatively, you can throw things at it, cage it, or do other things to move it indirectly, even if you don't have move permission. Also, does the current owner always have the ability to set or unset move? or is that controlled by the modify permission?
  2. To take a copy of an object, presumably the current owner (the one who put it down) must have copy permission. It doesn't matter what the agent picking it up has (i.e. it doesn't matter whether next owner copy is set or unset.
  3. To take an object, the current owner must have transfer permission. It doesn't matter whether next owner transfer is set. There's no way for the current owner to reliably control who takes it. (Or can group membership be used as a form of control?)
  4. To attach such an object, you must first take it. Therefore it's always true that an attachment is owned by the avatar wearing it.
  5. To sit on an object, it needs to have a sit target. Permissions are irrelevant. If there is no sit target, you'll get the message "there is no place to sit". Does it also need to be physical? What conditions create an object for which the sit menu item is dimmed out?
  6. No permissions are needed to touch an object. Must it be scripted for the touch menu item to show up? Does it also need to be physical?

If this is all correct, then a corollary of this is that the only way to wield an object (i.e. have an avatar hold it in its hand) is for the avatar to have an attachment (and even then, getting the rotation right is tricky). You can fake it by animating the entire movement, but that's tricky as well.

I'm sure I've missed some conditions, but I haven't found anywhere else that at least gets this much written down.

Thanks
Al Sonic
Builder Furiend
Join date: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 162
Nice to have some good questions to answer.
02-05-2007 18:14
From: someone
1. In order to ['directly'] move an object owned by someone else, it must both be physical and grant the move permission. Alternatively, you can throw things at it, cage it, or do other things to move it indirectly, even if you don't have move permission.
It sounds like you're almost there. Physical means it will fall with gravity and can be pushed by objects around it, including any avatars. Permission to move means, in the case of physical objects, that one can click or ctrl-click and drag an object around. If it's not physical, others can still move it through the Edit interface.
From: someone
2. To take a copy of an object, presumably the current owner (the one who put it down) must have copy permission. It doesn't matter what the agent picking it up has (i.e. it doesn't matter whether next owner copy is set or unset).
Yup; these latter settings only go into effect once the object has been transferred from one owner to another. However, the owner needs both Copy and Transfer permission to set an object as Free-to-Copy (an option which the owner can then freely turn off and on to decide whether others may take a copy).
From: someone
3. To take an object, the current owner must have transfer permission. It doesn't matter whether next owner transfer is set. There's no way for the current owner to reliably control who takes it. (Or can group membership be used as a form of control?)
The general idea about Transfer permission is correct. However, "Take" doesn't really seem to be an available means of transferring an object from one owner to another, unless perhaps the object is set to be shared with the group, and the recipient is in that assigned group (and even then, such a person could surely Take Copy as long as the object isn't Copy-restricted). Objects are always transferred either by dragging the object from the inventory onto the recipient or by setting down an object to be bought or copied. However, to give anyone the freedom to 'take' an object as you seem to be suggesting, you can set down an object to be bought for $0, and assign it to sell the Original object (rather than a Copy, or the Contents).
From: someone
4. To attach such an object, you must first take it. Therefore it's always true that an attachment is owned by the avatar wearing it.
Well you have to sorta own it yeah (I think group ownership may be enough). Once you do, you can Wear it (or "Attach to" for more options). These commands are available from both the inventory and right-clicking in-world.
From: someone
5. To sit on an object, it needs to have a sit target. If there is no sit target, you'll get the message "there is no place to sit".
Hm, no actually. You can sit on a great many objects that aren't yet scripted for sitting, although SL occasionally has difficulty finding a spot to sit on such an object. If you want others to pick exactly where on the object they want to sit rather than letting the object determine that, then just leave the object without any such programmed target.
From: someone
6. No permissions are needed to touch an object. Must it be scripted for the touch menu item to show up? Does it also need to be physical?
Yeah, yep, and no, physics don't matter. Touching is just a way to easily interact with the script in an object, accessible by default simply by left-clicking on the scripted object.

From: someone
If this is all correct, then a corollary of this is that the only way to wield an object (i.e. have an avatar hold it in its hand) is for the avatar to have an attachment (and even then, getting the rotation right is tricky).
Yup, holding it in your hand = having it as an attachment. The rotation thing never struck me as all that tricky (although I suppose one can end up feeling quite picky about it), so feel free to ask more about that.
Kidd Krasner
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,938
02-11-2007 20:00
Thanks, not only for taking the time to reply in the first place, but also testing and coming back to edit.
Al Sonic
Builder Furiend
Join date: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 162
Sure, Anytime. I love being able to answer questions.
02-12-2007 13:09
You're welcome.
I think I learned from this too; there was a thing or two here that I realized I didn't know all that well. I still think I need to find a chance to play with group ownership to understand how such objects behave (e.g. Does a group-owned object really behave exactly like a personally-owned object to all members of a group? Does it change its Owner tag when another group member takes it?).